Is this intimidation or a good thing? I can't decide........

[NCC]

anyone who has taken basic chemistry knows that if you test a substance and then put it through a chemical change your initial tests of the substance are irrelevant.

Basic chemistry will tell you chemical reactions at the low temperature of a VP atomizer are likely to be close to zip with the substances in question.

With the possible exception of nicotine itself, which has a ridiculously low vapor pressure (as I recall) and combustion point also low. Is it nicotine we're worried about here? I think not.

 

[Friend of Atlas]

Basic chemistry will tell you chemical reactions at the low temperature of a VP atomizer are likely to be close to zip with the substances in question.

Can you expand on that for the doubtful / disbelievers - I need you to prop up my scientifically lacking post above

 

[Godzilla]

What I dont understand is why they would test all juices from all companies? Is it a marketing attempt? An attempt to require accountability of the competition?

Now, if they headed up a consortium of participating juice venders who all pitch in for this testing, thats a different story. They may be on the right track in looking out for this industry long term, but time will tell.

As far as testing the vape and not the liquid, I dont mind them starting with testing the raw product I vape. That is also a good start in my opinion.

 

[chr1s234]

Basic chemistry will tell you chemical reactions at the low temperature of a VP atomizer are likely to be close to zip with the substances in question.

With the possible exception of nicotine itself, which has a ridiculously low vapor pressure (as I recall) and combustion point also low. Is it nicotine we're worried about here? I think not.

I notice you said likely. I'm sorry but I don't care if someone spends thousands of dollars for a "likely" conclusion. If you are going to spend the money and have the tests done, do them properly with definate outcomes. And how do you honestly know what the average temperature is of an atty since people use variable voltage and mods you can never know what the temperature is going to be "consistently". I'm not trying to rile people up but if you are going to try to say that your liquids have been tested and safe, it should be without a "likely" doubt.

Here you go FoA

A chemical reaction is a process that leads to the transformation of one set of chemical substances to another.[1] Chemical reactions can be either spontaneous, requiring no input of energy, or non-spontaneous, often coming about only after the input of some type of energy, viz. heat, light or electricity.

 

[sbphotog]

What I'm seriously questioning is why they would appoint someone who's only been vaping 3-4 mos. to this position. I don't know what the background is, and her blog entries are there to read for all. There would have to be in all seriousness more credibility that I'm not seeing.

I am not trying to be mean here, but I really questioned their decision on this appointment and then the motives behind it? If anyone has more information, please let us know, Thanks!

I was just thinking the same thing. I think she's great and I enjoy her posts, but exactly what are her qualifications? Does someone thats only been vaping 5 months really know all that much about the liquids?

 

[NCC]

Can you expand on that for the doubtful / disbelievers - I need you to prop up my scientifically lacking post above

Well, from what I've read the atomizer achieves temperatures somewhat below 200°F. Below the boiling point of H2O. While chemical reactions occur at these temperatures among notably reactive substances, the major constituents of eLiquid aren't highly reactive.

I'll give a reservation though. The flavorings. They're an unknown entity (to me) so far as their reactivity is concerned. Still, one must consider that they're mostly food flavorings and are commonly subjected to temperatures in cooking more than double what they are subjected to in vaping.

But, they haven't tested for safety with regard to inhalation. That's beside the point in the testing being discussed. I feel it is more of a concern than possible chemical reactions in the heating of eLiquid.

 

[Enid]

This reminds me of something that I've seen before.
In the Natural Foods Industry many companies said that their competitors had products which contained parabens but where not listing them. I've been handed photocopied assays, which could or could not be real and I have been offered a book, to be mailed to me, with all the third party independant assays. The book contained the name of the lab, date, time of testing, origin of source material (retail or provided by supplier, which is so important!), and name of those who oversaw the testing. After seeing a real lab assay from retail sourced materal, I'd never even accept some sciency looking sheet of paper again.
I'd accept a third party assay, with no financial interests, other than being paid for testing, but I can't take any one companies forum board posting as scientific fact.

 

[chr1s234]

Now don't let me start the big D fire again but the FDA approves Diacetyl for food use but we all know what can happen at vaporization. NO I DONT BELIEVE THERE IS ENOUGH TO HARM US so don't start with that debate. My point is that things that are in those flavorings are not understood as far as their chemical reaction thresholds. Yes "most" of them are meant for cooking but there are some that aren't (tobacco flavors and whatnot). All I'm saying is you are saying "they MIGHT be safe" at best unless you test them at the vapor state.

 

[Bovinia]

What I'm seriously questioning is why they would appoint someone who's only been vaping 3-4 mos. to this position. I don't know what the background is, and her blog entries are there to read for all. There would have to be in all seriousness more credibility that I'm not seeing.

I am not trying to be mean here, but I really questioned their decision on this appointment and then the motives behind it? If anyone has more information, please let us know, Thanks!

I have the same thoughts on this Vchick, but I'm sure she will fill us in soon enough and with far more info than is necessary.

 

[nightsong]

I received a rather rude email response after I placed my first order, so I went back and read "all" the vendor's posts.....and, it all make perfect sense

 

[NCC]

All I'm saying is you are saying "they MIGHT be safe" at best unless you test them at the vapor state.

Yes. You have a point. But, as I'm understanding spectroscopy, the tested substance is subjected to FAR higher temperatures for the analysis than a PV could possibly subject it to, regardless of the PV's horsepower. Possibly high enough to spawn the chemical reactions you are worried about?

 

[tybin]

there is an explanation about the testing question that was being discussed here.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/freedom-smoke-usa/139874-david-did-you-make-claim.html

 

[Neo]

No matter what side of the diacetyl issue you are on, seems to me he ought to start looking at his own products before he looks at others. Oh, wait. His stuff is diacetyl free. Oh no wait. It has some in it after all but it's not harmful...it's just a witch hunt.

I'm willing to put out some bucks on which side this analysis is going to come down on.

Anyone is free to disagree with me. Just don't yell.

 

[Bovinia]

Well I hope he puts his money to good use. His newest employees tried to crunch numbers on diacetyl to "prove" we couldn't vape enough of it to be harmful. Last I read, there is no known safe amount for inhalation.

 

[Neo]

Well I hope he puts his money to good use. His newest employees tried to crunch numbers on diacetyl to "prove" we couldn't vape enough of it to be harmful. Last I read, there is no known safe amount for inhalation.

Guess that means you are not going to take me up on my bet.

 

[UntamedRose]

I think we are all just going to have to sit back and wait. It will likely take a few months before anything could possibly be posted on the results.

Good, bad or ugly, we will have to wait it out and see.

 

[Vchick]

I would have more respect for a company that proves their products before offering to tests others/going after others, in essence this is what I see that they're doing.

Let your facts stand for themselves and the others will weed themselves out. Water sinks to it's own level in time, I'll be as curious as everyone else until then.

 

[cobaltblue]

No matter what side of the diacetyl issue you are on, seems to me he ought to start looking at his own products before he looks at others. Oh, wait. His stuff is diacetyl free. Oh no wait. It has some in it after all but it's not harmful...it's just a witch hunt.

I'm willing to put out some bucks on which side this analysis is going to come down on....

Well said. "When people Show you who they are, Believe them."

 

[chr1s234]

Yes. You have a point. But, as I'm understanding spectroscopy, the tested substance is subjected to FAR higher temperatures for the analysis than a PV could possibly subject it to, regardless of the PV's horsepower. Possibly high enough to spawn the chemical reactions you are worried about?

As far as I am aware Spectroscopy can be done at multiple levels of heat, in fact one of the lowest temperature tests is done with ultraviolet light through the liquid itself. When you get into the visible wavelengths of light is when the substance needs to be vaporized for inspection with flourescent light or other methods.

 

[librarising]

Flavorings safe for cooking/digesting, but what do they do in the lungs? A friend who is considering vaping asked me that.

Now don't let me start the big D fire again but the FDA approves Diacetyl for food use but we all know what can happen at vaporization. NO I DONT BELIEVE THERE IS ENOUGH TO HARM US so don't start with that debate. My point is that things that are in those flavorings are not understood as far as their chemical reaction thresholds. Yes "most" of them are meant for cooking but there are some that aren't (tobacco flavors and whatnot). All I'm saying is you are saying "they MIGHT be safe" at best unless you test them at the vapor state.