Most vape shops are setup to service the beginner and if they don't give up the next steppers. Most vape shops you go into clearly the owner has no clue how to run one for most, experienced vapers using advanced products. You can usually tell soon as you open the door. The fog hits you in the face like a damp London morning. Yet the mixture of 10 different exhaled juices is enough to turn you around. Clearly a exhaust system wasn't in the budget. If you are really determined and can see you make it the counter to be greeted by the veteran senior employee of two months. It's usually all down hill after that.
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Well, they are a business and have to appeal to where the money is to stay in business. I would imagine there are more beginners willing to spend money and more of those who are still in search of a sweet spot than there are advanced users looking for the latest and greatest at the local B&M.
I know if our local B&M had to depend on my purchases to stay in business, they'd be closed. I vape a mod that is no longer produced, Provari, and a mod that is not in a distribution network, Billet Box. I'm happy with those and see no reason to purchase any mod the local B&M have.
I vape non-flavored. Not much profit in that compared to little bottles of flavored juice with huge markups.
Wire and cotton is cheap. Not a top shelf item. In fact if they even have it, it may not be in the customers view.
I do try to toss a tiny bit of business to the B&M and will stop by a couple of times a year and walk out with a box of Aspire Nautilus coils and a reminder of why I don't go there more often these days. It is what it is.
I know if our local B&M had to depend on my purchases to stay in business, they'd be closed. I vape a mod that is no longer produced, Provari, and a mod that is not in a distribution network, Billet Box. I'm happy with those and see no reason to purchase any mod the local B&M have.
I vape non-flavored. Not much profit in that compared to little bottles of flavored juice with huge markups.
Wire and cotton is cheap. Not a top shelf item. In fact if they even have it, it may not be in the customers view.
I do try to toss a tiny bit of business to the B&M and will stop by a couple of times a year and walk out with a box of Aspire Nautilus coils and a reminder of why I don't go there more often these days. It is what it is.
Yeah, it's easy to push sales. Gotten kinda quiet around the deeming regs and the FDA.
But that doesn't mean all lawyers went into hibernation as well.
Product liability is still there and ambulance chasers are still there.
Might be good keeping that in mind when pushing a mech on a total newbie...
But that doesn't mean all lawyers went into hibernation as well.
Product liability is still there and ambulance chasers are still there.
Might be good keeping that in mind when pushing a mech on a total newbie...
You can lead a horse to water..............
That's just flat out freaking irresponsible. As much as I hate litigation, that's a store I'd love to see end up in court after something they sell blows up in someone's face.
There's another issue to consider. There are different types of vapers just as there are different styles.Most of us here started vaping to get off cigarettes. We're generally older and more concerned about our health. Those looking to stop smoking really benefit from a style of vaping such as mtl to succeed (not all, there are no fixed rules, some only do well with dl).
Then there are the younger, cloud chasing types who probably never or rarely smoked a cigarette. They're not doing it for the nicotine, they're doing it for the fun, hobby, social, and "challenge" of it. They seem to gravitate to 0.004 ohm build usually made for them by the vape shop staff because they have no clue how to coil anything, with a 50A SuperFire battery because that's what their bro friends were using and it looked so cool.
That's two very different groups with different needs and require a responsible vape vendor to identify and deal with responsibly. The fact is, most vape shop employees may not have all that much experience in the first place (it's a job) or be one of those two types themselves and unfamiliar with the needs of the other.
The killer is both types affect both public perception and government intervention. Those of us in the harm reduction stop smoking group present one challenge to regulation (as in yes, encourage it, as lots of people won't die from continuing to smoke), to the trick competition crowd who really could benefit from some sort of requirements for basic safety steps to make sure they don't burn their parents house down. Meeting the needs of those two extremes is tough. Even in a community like this with very knowledgeable vapers there will be disagreements on what approaches to take. IMHO, there are no easy answers to that, although the explicitly abusive stuff like misrepresentation of a battery is easy to agree on smacking down.
There are a few shops in my area that does well, and each have their own doctrine on how they approach the business.
The first one is walking distance. They started out as a smoke shop, but steered towards vaping. Now they focus sales on juice sales and only sell products that they know and use. So most of their stuff is Smok and Sigelei. Tanks are all Smoks and Nautilus MTL stuff. They told me that since they primarily sell juice (at a very reasonable price for a B&M), they only sell hardware they know that works and they do not sell stuff they don't know how to use. They admitted to not being 100% down with all the newer cooler mods, but if they do find a tank or mod they they purchase somewhere else that they like, they will bring it in. They do not sell any RTAs, RDAs, or any rebuild material. They say to go elsewhere to get those things. Not sure what batteries they sell, because I don't buy batteries through them.
Store #2 is also primarily a juice selling store as well. They have the usual well known devices and tanks. And they also sell mechs and RTAs and RDAs. They sell cotton, but not wire. They tell people that it is much cheaper for them to buy them on ebay or online stores. They will build simple coils for customers depending on what the situation is. I have seen them build one for a really pretty girl who was buying a mech and RDA for her dad who is also a really good customer of the store. They talked her through their whole process even though she told them she would was not interested in vaping and only getting it for her dad as a gift. He understood, but he wanted her to be aware of any potential problems that happens when people are careless. They also give out battery cases when people buy 2 or more batteries. They do not have a huge selection of hardware, but they have enough and this store will go over everything with the customer. I have also seen them turn people away from getting mechs because they felt the customer may harm himself.
The 3rd store is an everything store. They have all the cool new stuff, and they have mechs and everything from ego styles to high end DNA stuff. They have pretty much every topper under the sun. I have been in there a few times and each time I picked up a new topper and also saw how they interacted with customers. One guy wanted to get a new RDA, and wanted to try them. Usually stores will not allow that, but this employee pulled out a box with all the different RDAs the store carries. And each one has a coil built and each one the guy wanted to try, he cleaned and rewicked. Made the guy use his own drip tip, and his own juice. The employee gave him a brief description and review of the RDAs he was testing. Answered all questions subjectively and gave his recommendations. The guy settled on one after trying like 5 of them. Then he commented on how cool it was for a store to have open boxed RDAs for testing. The employee told him that all those were his, not the stores, and he said he always wants to make sure he knows how as much as possible about as many products in the store as possible.
Now there are some pretty bad stores out there too that I walked in and then walked out. Thankfully most of those are gone.
The first one is walking distance. They started out as a smoke shop, but steered towards vaping. Now they focus sales on juice sales and only sell products that they know and use. So most of their stuff is Smok and Sigelei. Tanks are all Smoks and Nautilus MTL stuff. They told me that since they primarily sell juice (at a very reasonable price for a B&M), they only sell hardware they know that works and they do not sell stuff they don't know how to use. They admitted to not being 100% down with all the newer cooler mods, but if they do find a tank or mod they they purchase somewhere else that they like, they will bring it in. They do not sell any RTAs, RDAs, or any rebuild material. They say to go elsewhere to get those things. Not sure what batteries they sell, because I don't buy batteries through them.
Store #2 is also primarily a juice selling store as well. They have the usual well known devices and tanks. And they also sell mechs and RTAs and RDAs. They sell cotton, but not wire. They tell people that it is much cheaper for them to buy them on ebay or online stores. They will build simple coils for customers depending on what the situation is. I have seen them build one for a really pretty girl who was buying a mech and RDA for her dad who is also a really good customer of the store. They talked her through their whole process even though she told them she would was not interested in vaping and only getting it for her dad as a gift. He understood, but he wanted her to be aware of any potential problems that happens when people are careless. They also give out battery cases when people buy 2 or more batteries. They do not have a huge selection of hardware, but they have enough and this store will go over everything with the customer. I have also seen them turn people away from getting mechs because they felt the customer may harm himself.
The 3rd store is an everything store. They have all the cool new stuff, and they have mechs and everything from ego styles to high end DNA stuff. They have pretty much every topper under the sun. I have been in there a few times and each time I picked up a new topper and also saw how they interacted with customers. One guy wanted to get a new RDA, and wanted to try them. Usually stores will not allow that, but this employee pulled out a box with all the different RDAs the store carries. And each one has a coil built and each one the guy wanted to try, he cleaned and rewicked. Made the guy use his own drip tip, and his own juice. The employee gave him a brief description and review of the RDAs he was testing. Answered all questions subjectively and gave his recommendations. The guy settled on one after trying like 5 of them. Then he commented on how cool it was for a store to have open boxed RDAs for testing. The employee told him that all those were his, not the stores, and he said he always wants to make sure he knows how as much as possible about as many products in the store as possible.
Now there are some pretty bad stores out there too that I walked in and then walked out. Thankfully most of those are gone.
I think the vape shop issue is.... Well, it's widely divergent what kind of experience you will have. I actually like the places where the owner is around a lot. There's one guy who really knows his stuff around here, and he can do a great job with things (including giving discounts, LOL) and I know he may be struggling a bit as I don't tend to see many "employees" when I go. Since he does know what he's doing, if I'm going to buy from a B&M, it may as well be that place. Freedom Smoke USA is pretty middle of the road, but they're kind of big around here. I think there's a *decent* amount of education for the employees, but pretty basic stuff.
If there were to be any regulation on vape stores, I'd really like to see it in the battery/customer query/handing out information on vaping setups that's more than the basic user manual. I have no issue with someone starting with a sub0hm setup IF that's what they want and it will suit them. When it's someone with COPD however, that's irresponsible and asking a customer if they have any lung issues should be a pretty reasonable question to ask, IF that vape shop wants to be responsible, and I hate to see folks needing MTL vs DL being sold the wrong setup... and vice versa. New purchasers should at LEAST be informed of the different types of vaping, and that if one or the other type of vaping isn't working, they might need to try a different setup. Then give the customer the choice.
It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if a vape store sold to minors without checking age limits-- I mean, a lot of them are struggling and if the kid has the cash.... With that said, at my now advanced age, I sometimes see what I assume are 16 year olds behind the wheel, but they look about 12 to *me*! So, we can't know for sure, but the mech part is pretty irresponsible, IMO. I don't think vape shops should be allowed to sell batteries without a certificate of authenticity, personally. I know it's probably possible to fake that stuff too, but.... oy. I don't like the battery practice in vape stores at *all*
IDK, it's a tough issue, but I think over time one is going to see some of these vape stores dying out, or at least SOME more stringent regulations being put in place. That doesn't mean that each and every vape shop is going to follow all of them.....
It's super frustrating to watch, though, for sure!
Anna
If there were to be any regulation on vape stores, I'd really like to see it in the battery/customer query/handing out information on vaping setups that's more than the basic user manual. I have no issue with someone starting with a sub0hm setup IF that's what they want and it will suit them. When it's someone with COPD however, that's irresponsible and asking a customer if they have any lung issues should be a pretty reasonable question to ask, IF that vape shop wants to be responsible, and I hate to see folks needing MTL vs DL being sold the wrong setup... and vice versa. New purchasers should at LEAST be informed of the different types of vaping, and that if one or the other type of vaping isn't working, they might need to try a different setup. Then give the customer the choice.
It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if a vape store sold to minors without checking age limits-- I mean, a lot of them are struggling and if the kid has the cash.... With that said, at my now advanced age, I sometimes see what I assume are 16 year olds behind the wheel, but they look about 12 to *me*! So, we can't know for sure, but the mech part is pretty irresponsible, IMO. I don't think vape shops should be allowed to sell batteries without a certificate of authenticity, personally. I know it's probably possible to fake that stuff too, but.... oy. I don't like the battery practice in vape stores at *all*
IDK, it's a tough issue, but I think over time one is going to see some of these vape stores dying out, or at least SOME more stringent regulations being put in place. That doesn't mean that each and every vape shop is going to follow all of them.....
It's super frustrating to watch, though, for sure!
Anna
IMO it is on the customer to be upfront about pre-existing health problems. Unless it's obvious, that's a tremendously personal question to ask of a stranger and I personally would want to tread very carefully indeed when it came to advising a client with seriously compromised lung function.
Just my 2¢.
Just my 2¢.
I think that's actually a fair point, VV. It is a personal question, and I'm not sure now that you've raised it that it's fair to put on vape shops, generally.
IDK ,when I bought setups (new to vaping) there weren't a lot of questions to ask about my smoking habits, or desire to vape, because it was all pretty new back then. Though they DID ask how much I smoked, in order to determine nic level.....
I do think now equipment has gotten so diverse, the issue gets more complicated.... I don't LOVE that some ppl arriving on pretty major sub0hm setups and having no idea that there's even anything else..... It's tough, because there is in some ways an expectation that a vape shop can guide a person, or at least educate them some, but some vape store employees aren't that educated themselves. IDK what the answer is, I guess....
Anna
IDK ,when I bought setups (new to vaping) there weren't a lot of questions to ask about my smoking habits, or desire to vape, because it was all pretty new back then. Though they DID ask how much I smoked, in order to determine nic level.....
I do think now equipment has gotten so diverse, the issue gets more complicated.... I don't LOVE that some ppl arriving on pretty major sub0hm setups and having no idea that there's even anything else..... It's tough, because there is in some ways an expectation that a vape shop can guide a person, or at least educate them some, but some vape store employees aren't that educated themselves. IDK what the answer is, I guess....
Anna
When I said issue with many vape shops, many is what I meant. But there are also many that are great shops too. I didn't mean to sound like I'm being too inclusive but meanwhile the issues that I've stated do go on. I do know of some that would just refuse to build a coil for a customer, one that would never sell mechs to people, one that doesn't have mechs and sells authentic batteries for a matter of fact (I know the owner). Still there are those issues that go on with a handful of shops where they would do anything to make a sale and wouldn't ID the customer if they look underage. It's All About The Benjamins - Notorious B.I.G.
I have seen one of my go to shops ask what style of vaping a customer would like. And they give that blank stare. There was a situation where the customer got annoyed and just stated that he wanted something that vapes.... I worked retail once in my life and I learned that the customer is king, but most kings are idiots.....
Ignorance is not idiocy. It definitely IS on the shop to give a simple explanation of these concepts to help the client and close the sale.
Little anecdote that literally just happened: I have some unused and older vape gear up for sale on Craigslist, and got a nibble for my gold Minikin. Sent my photos, got the ring back to set up a meet. The guy asks me to meet near a Tim Horton's by a highschool (seriously, how Canadian...), which immediately prompts me to ask for ID.
I apologise since it's a personal question to ask, but he quickly obliges with a (mostly blacked out) photo of his driver's license and a note back saying he totally understands - he works at Clouds Burnaby (MY shop) and it's important.
Too cool. Anyway, I'm mentioning this little exchange because the Minikin (which, honestly was being sold at buddy prices already, was asking a pittance) is now a freebie for the guy. I owe a whole lot of gratitude to the folks there, and it may seem weird to PIF to a business (ultimately not actually what I'm doing), but between their guidance in the early days, to their banter and professionalism as a regular, and near constant discounts, I saw it as an opportunity to say thanks. I figured this would be a fun story to relate that properly exemplifies the power of having quality face-to-face vape talk, and why it's so frustrating to me to see others taken by rogues and deadbeats.
Little anecdote that literally just happened: I have some unused and older vape gear up for sale on Craigslist, and got a nibble for my gold Minikin. Sent my photos, got the ring back to set up a meet. The guy asks me to meet near a Tim Horton's by a highschool (seriously, how Canadian...), which immediately prompts me to ask for ID.
I apologise since it's a personal question to ask, but he quickly obliges with a (mostly blacked out) photo of his driver's license and a note back saying he totally understands - he works at Clouds Burnaby (MY shop) and it's important.
Too cool. Anyway, I'm mentioning this little exchange because the Minikin (which, honestly was being sold at buddy prices already, was asking a pittance) is now a freebie for the guy. I owe a whole lot of gratitude to the folks there, and it may seem weird to PIF to a business (ultimately not actually what I'm doing), but between their guidance in the early days, to their banter and professionalism as a regular, and near constant discounts, I saw it as an opportunity to say thanks. I figured this would be a fun story to relate that properly exemplifies the power of having quality face-to-face vape talk, and why it's so frustrating to me to see others taken by rogues and deadbeats.
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How much do you think that guy behind the counter is getting paid/hour? And, you want scientists?!?
Lets get real! With guys getting paid minimum wage, don't expect anything but minimum service/knowledge. It's the way of the business world.
Lets get real! With guys getting paid minimum wage, don't expect anything but minimum service/knowledge. It's the way of the business world.
Not all shops pay their reps minimum wage, most have commission (problematic with crappy shops), and at the end of the day, their wage should (big should) not matter whatsoever. I'm not ignorant to reality, of course, but in my experience folks with a poor work ethic do not magically become quality employees because of a pay hike.
One of my favorite towns. Haven't been there in years though. Is JC Sterns (Morgan dealership) still in business there?? They were friends way back when.
The first vape shop opened here in 2008. I became a regular customer there in 2010. At the time it was the only vape shop in the state, and you had to stand in line to be waited on by very knowledgeable clerks. Fast forward about three years and there were more vape shops than smoke shops here, and the average clerk had been vaping for about a month. Very enthusiastic, but they didn't know their
from a hole in the ground.But you can attract quality employees by assuring them good compensation. And knowing they're paying for quality, a business is more likely to fire someone if they manifest a poor work ethic.
Still the performance of a business's employees is established by leadership from above. If a store owner doesn't care about customer satisfaction, and only cares about driving sales the employees will act accordingly.
One of my favorite towns. Haven't been there in years though. Is JC Sterns (Morgan dealership) still in business there?? They were friends way back when.
The first vape shop opened here in 2008. I became a regular customer there in 2010. At the time it was the only vape shop in the state, and you had to stand in line to be waited on by very knowledgeable clerks. Fast forward about three years and there were more vape shops than smoke shops here, and the average clerk had been vaping for about a month. Very enthusiastic, but they didn't know their
Sadly, no. Kind of a surprise, to be honest, as the Greater Vancouver Area is absolutely full of high end performance and luxury vehicles. I see the new McLarens a few times daily. I had a look at their dealer list and there is no Morgan dealer in the West or the prairies. Closest now seems to be Washington. Pity.
Honestly, if someone asked me that, I'd just give them a blank stare and tell them wattage is irrelevant to a mech. It can easily be calculated, if one knows the resistance and the charge of the battery, but it makes no difference whatsoever...amps matter, but watts don't.
I feel that the vape community has fetishized Ohm's law..what is significant, when using a mech, is the only thing that you have control over, the resistance of your build. Of course, knowing how many amps you're drawing and the limits of your batteries is important but if you know the lowest 'safe' resistance that you can use is what's important.
I never ever buy batteries from a shop; I rely on trusted online sites to deliver authentics; I've seen too many sketchy batteries at shops.
I've had pleasant and unpleasant experiences at local shops; like most *seasoned* vapers, I don't rely on them but I do feel that they play a very important role in the future of vaping, especially for smoker, but I've overheard a lot of wrong information given out as gospel...like that one should 'fully drain' a battery before charging it, or that only certain chargers will work...absent regulations, it's to be expected that people get information wrong; that has less to do with the fact that the employees get paid well or poorly, and more to do with people inadequately educating themselves. I don't think it's fair to blame the venue...there is much misinformation in groups on facebook, and even within this site...ultimately it's up to the individual to educate themselves.
And so many just don't get that. Watts constantly change with a mechanical anyway. Every time you push the button there are less watts than there were last time.
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