Kitchener, On Vape Shop

[raqball]

I don't see the point in continuing to post the emails from the owner publicly.. At this point its past a warning and a bad review and has moved to a public shaming which is kinda uncalled for....

I agree with @Letitia... I don't expect a vape shop employee to be an expert in all things vape related. As a consumer, educate yourself and know what you are buying...

They made a mistake and were corrected. Move on and choose a different vape shop..

 

[zoiDman]

Cost of a Pre-Made Coil at a B&M: A Few Bucks.
Total Billing for a trip to the ER: 10's of Thousands of Dollars.
Not Being Reliant on what Sales People tell you is True when it comes to Safety: Priceless.

 

[VapourFlavour]

But the kid at the hardware store will engage if you start the conversation. He is paid to make a sale period. This does not mean he is trained to show how to not hurt yourself. That's on the buyer/user. Do I think the owner is handling the situation badly...yes I do but this doesn't change the fact who uses the product also has a responsibility look after their own safety.

We agree on this
What concerns me, and we've seen and read about it, is that a lot of people don't do their homework and I just wish shops would do their due diligence and educate when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[VapourFlavour]

I don't see the point in continuing to post the emails from the owner publicly.. At this point its past a warning and a bad review and has moved to a public shaming which is kinda uncalled for....

I agree with @Letitia... I don't expect a vape shop employee to be an expert in all things vape related. As a consumer, educate yourself and know what you are buying...

They made a mistake and were corrected. Move on and choose a different vape shop..

I think you're missing the point. They were corrected and as of this afternoon, are still telling me that the employee did nothing wrong by telling me that a .15 ohm build in a mech with a 15A battery is safe. We're way past them not knowing the correct amperage of the battery. Even with knowing what the true CDR is, they insist I would've been safe, even now. That's irresponsible, if I put that battery/build combo in right now with the way I hit my mech, it would heat up to the point where thermal runaway would be likely.

 

[raqball]

I think you're missing the point. They were corrected and as of this afternoon are still telling me that the employee did nothing wrong by telling me that a .15 ohm build in a mech with a 15A battery is safe. We're way past them not knowing the correct amperage of the battery. Even with knowing what the true CDR is, they insist I would've been safe, even now. That's irresponsible, if I put that battery build combo in with the way I hit my mech it have thermal runaway happening.

I'm not missing anything... You proved your point, you said you left a bad review, and you've shared your experience here.

Posting emails from the owner serves no purpose other than to shame them. What do you expect to come from posting their correspondences to you publicly?

 

[Jebbn]

Everyone on any kind of forum knows more than any kid in a store and generally more than the store manager.
Forums all over teh webz are filled with stories of how someone really set that store guy straight.
It's the kind of outrage that fuels the internet.

 

[AXIOM_1]

@VapourFlavour , @raqball , and @Letitia all have good points and you are all correct … It's easy for people in the know (like us), to casually claim that "it is our responsibility" to know everything about safety b4 beginning to vape but that is not even realistic, nor does it happen very often in the real world...

Lots of first time users are going to buy something that helps them get off the smokes.... They don't have the foggiest clue about what they are buying. They are not considering (due to a lack of knowledge) that what they are purchasing might potentially blow their face off. Most newbies are going to rely upon the advice of vape shops and people who vape.

Most folks I have ever seen do not go read up on vaping and learn all the ins and outs before they attempt vaping... Some may read about a reduction in health Hazards and such, but I don't know of too many people who dive into Ohms Law for working with coils, battery usage and safety, or how to mix ejuice. These are the types of things that are unknown to most beginners.

As for the more seasoned vaper, then one could argue that they should know about battery safety or that they should belong to a forum such as this one where all of the information is available at their finger-tips... Again, not very realistic as not all vapers join a forum such as this one.

If I go into a store to buy food or drink, I am not generally expecting the items I buy to harm or kill me. It's the same scenario when it comes to vaping.... Most folks aren't even thinking about a potential hazard. They just assume that the device will vape and function properly.

While I "wished" more people would know more about battery safety, sadly that is not the case, especially for new vapers.

 

[raqball]

@VapourFlavour , @raqball , and @Letitia all have good points and you are all correct … It's easy for people in the know (like us), to casually claim that "it is our responsibility" to know everything about safety b4 beginning to vape but that is not even realistic, nor does it happen very often in the real world...

Lots of first time users are going to buy something that helps them get off the smokes.... They don't have the foggiest clue about what they are buying. They are not considering (due to a lack of knowledge) that what they are purchasing might potentially blow their face off. Most newbies are going to rely upon the advice of vape shops and people who vape.

Most folks I have ever seen do not go read up on vaping and learn all the ins and outs before they attempt vaping... Some may read about a reduction in health Hazards and such, but I don't know of too many people who dive into Ohms Law for working with coils, battery usage and safety, or how to mix ejuice. These are the types of things that are unknown to most beginners.

As for the more seasoned vaper, then one could argue that they should know about battery safety or that they should belong to a forum such as this one where all of the information is available at their finger-tips... Again, not very realistic as not all vapers join a forum such as this one.

If I go into a store to buy food or drink, I am not generally expecting the items I buy to harm or kill me. It's the same scenario when it comes to vaping.... Most folks aren't even thinking about a potential hazard. They just assume that the device will vape and function properly.

While I "wished" more people would know more about battery safety, sadly that is not the case, especially for new vapers.

Very good points @AXIOM_1.. The only thing I'd add is that very few nOOb's are looking to buy, or are sold, a mech mod. The place where the OP went appears to cater to the 'starter kit' crowd and those are all pretty much regulated mods with tanks that take blister pack atomizers...

This was also the case with the shop I went into that I mentioned earlier in the thread. They did not sell rebuildable materials and while speaking with them before leaving, they didn't even stock any RTA's. I think he said they had one or two drippers. Looking at their display cases, it was all stocked to the hilt with starter kit type gear and pod systems...

I'd certainly not expect a kid working there to know about mech mods as they don't sell them. Sure I could go in and make him or her look foolish and pound my chest on the way out but what's the point?

There are shops here that do stock and sell mechs along with rebuildables. Those shops I would expect the sales staff to be bit more knowledge. But one that sells starter kits and pods?

 

[smacuser]

Oddly enough, I was just discussing callout culture with my son this morning.

 

[chellie]

@VapourFlavour , @raqball , and @Letitia all have good points and you are all correct … It's easy for people in the know (like us), to casually claim that "it is our responsibility" to know everything about safety b4 beginning to vape but that is not even realistic, nor does it happen very often in the real world...

Lots of first time users are going to buy something that helps them get off the smokes.... They don't have the foggiest clue about what they are buying. They are not considering (due to a lack of knowledge) that what they are purchasing might potentially blow their face off. Most newbies are going to rely upon the advice of vape shops and people who vape.

Most folks I have ever seen do not go read up on vaping and learn all the ins and outs before they attempt vaping... Some may read about a reduction in health Hazards and such, but I don't know of too many people who dive into Ohms Law for working with coils, battery usage and safety, or how to mix ejuice. These are the types of things that are unknown to most beginners.

As for the more seasoned vaper, then one could argue that they should know about battery safety or that they should belong to a forum such as this one where all of the information is available at their finger-tips... Again, not very realistic as not all vapers join a forum such as this one.

If I go into a store to buy food or drink, I am not generally expecting the items I buy to harm or kill me. It's the same scenario when it comes to vaping.... Most folks aren't even thinking about a potential hazard. They just assume that the device will vape and function properly.

While I "wished" more people would know more about battery safety, sadly that is not the case, especially for new vapers.

Amen to that!

I did not know anything about vaping 7+ years ago and I really wanted to quit cigs and try vaping. I was so interested and yet there were then very few resources in my area. I am in a big city and personable and did not know anyone that vaped. I did not even see anyone vaping because I would have approached them and asked a bunch of questions. I had gone to the few places that were around and could not get anyone to really answer my questions. It was just a bunch of guys blowing the biggest vape clouds that they could. All they wanted to do was put something in my hand with a bunch of coils and say "Sweetie - This will work great for you". grrrr

Well, I am a "need to know" type and am tech minded. So I ended up buying store bought stuff which I was not wild about and I lurked here and read and read and read here and elsewhere on the web. I gained a lot of knowledge and went back to the vape places more educated having a really good idea of what I wanted and they still could not really give me info so I took what I learned here and buy online.

Many are not as diligent as me and I think lots of people have the mindset that if they are going into a "specialty" type of shop that the people behind the counter know what they are talking about. I expect it in a high-end clothing shop, an electronics store, and a vape shop. And if someone does not know something I would expect them to find out. Even though you are ultimately responsible for your own safety I do think that it is reasonable to expect that the folks in the shops are knowledgeable --- as I would expect in any specialty shop.

 

[AXIOM_1]

Very good points @AXIOM_1.. The only thing I'd add is that very few nOOb's are looking to buy, or are sold, a mech mod. The place where the OP went appears to cater to the 'starter kit' crowd and those are all pretty much regulated mods with tanks that take blister pack atomizers...

This was also the case with the shop I went into that I mentioned earlier in the thread. They did not sell rebuildable materials and while speaking with them before leaving, they didn't even stock any RTA's. I think he said they had one or two drippers. Looking at their display cases, it was all stocked to the hilt with starter kit type gear and pod systems...

Yeah Brother, the simple fact is there needs to be a bit more education in regards to vaping... Yeah I realize there are shops that lean more towards mechs while others lean more towards the regulated systems.... But, Like I always tell people, regulated or not, there is still a danger, even though it is supposed to be lots less. The miserable FDA + BT will capitalize on just a single injury caused by vaping and use it to smear vaping....

Some shops are good about safety and some shops are lousy in regards to vaping knowledge and safety and that is unfortunate.....

But as for the email that @VapourFlavour posted and the gripes, I can totally understand his gripes... It's just a health hazard for sure... On the other hand, I see your point as well and agree with you in regards to putting salt in the wound.... It's been posted and we all know about it and so let it lay IMHO

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Many valid points here but what is the objective of this thread? Educate or exterminate? The later is not going to help anyone.

@VapourFlavour – I can’t help but think how this may turn around and bite you in the end. The stores within your community, and there are a few, are going to converse with each other, and if you are perceived as an aggressive customer by one, the others in your community may treat you with biased intent. I understand this retailer is incorrect, and you would like them to take on some responsibility – but is that message getting through? You mentioned the owner is a sweet person, so will assume you have had dealings with her in the past. Why not bring her a coffee, sit down with her and share some educational videos on an iPad or smartphone. I am sure she would appreciate this approach over what is currently taking place. Despite this store may only deal with starter kits and does not cater to your vaping needs, it is a store in your community to which it should be supported by the community. Regardless of what they sell, you have taken value in their service, be it wire, juice or other....why sever that tie?

 

[raqball]

what is the objective of this thread? Educate or exterminate?
Why not bring her a coffee, sit down with her and share some educational videos on an iPad or smartphone. I am sure she would appreciate this approach over what is currently taking place.

 

[AXIOM_1]

Many valid points here but what is the objective of this thread? Educate or exterminate?

That would depend upon the context and the realities … If vaping turns out in the long run to be a giant health hazard, then yes, extermination would be fitting .. If on the other hand it is eventually not shown to be harmful, then education should be the focus...

Regardless of what a vape shop sells, IMO they should focus on SAFETY FIRST... If they are just pushing items out the door in order to make profit and sell them, then not only is that immoral as someone can get seriously hurt, but it does not do vaping (in general) a service as it makes vaping look dangerous and bad.

Your idea of the coffee might work (who knows) …. But I am slightly pessimistic when it concerns businesses of any type (including vaping)…. It's all about the dollar for most people, and to heck with someone's health. If I owned a shop (which I gladly don't) I would require all of my employees to know basic electricity. (including battery safety)…. I would also require them to know in depth about each item in the store.

 

[Letitia]

@VapourFlavour , @raqball , and @Letitia all have good points and you are all correct … It's easy for people in the know (like us), to casually claim that "it is our responsibility" to know everything about safety b4 beginning to vape but that is not even realistic, nor does it happen very often in the real world...

Lots of first time users are going to buy something that helps them get off the smokes.... They don't have the foggiest clue about what they are buying. They are not considering (due to a lack of knowledge) that what they are purchasing might potentially blow their face off. Most newbies are going to rely upon the advice of vape shops and people who vape.

Most folks I have ever seen do not go read up on vaping and learn all the ins and outs before they attempt vaping... Some may read about a reduction in health Hazards and such, but I don't know of too many people who dive into Ohms Law for working with coils, battery usage and safety, or how to mix ejuice. These are the types of things that are unknown to most beginners.

As for the more seasoned vaper, then one could argue that they should know about battery safety or that they should belong to a forum such as this one where all of the information is available at their finger-tips... Again, not very realistic as not all vapers join a forum such as this one.

If I go into a store to buy food or drink, I am not generally expecting the items I buy to harm or kill me. It's the same scenario when it comes to vaping.... Most folks aren't even thinking about a potential hazard. They just assume that the device will vape and function properly.

While I "wished" more people would know more about battery safety, sadly that is not the case, especially for new vapers.

Wishing people would research for themselves as well. The fact is if I bought a jig saw not one employee would question if I knew how to operate it safely. Yet no one would be surprised or offended by the fact they sent an absolute clueless individual home with such a tool.

 

[Letitia]

There is a huge difference between what we would love to see happen and reality. My point is you live in the reality but because you are a somewhat educated vapor you expect too much imo. Dangerous products are and have been for many years before vaping sold daily. Do you think the people buying flashlights get the battery tutorial? I didn't when I bought one and didn’t expect to get one. Flashlight didn't even come the battery card that are included with some of my devices. No employee told me about how to keep myself and home safe.

 

[AXIOM_1]

There is a huge difference between what we would love to see happen and reality. My point is you live in the reality but because you are a somewhat educated vapor you expect too much imo. Dangerous products are and have been for many years before vaping sold daily. Do you think the people buying flashlights get the battery tutorial? I didn't when I bought one and didn’t expect to get one. Flashlight didn't even come the battery card that are included with some of my devices. No employee told me about how to keep myself and home safe.

yeah kind of what I have been alluding too … Another problem with this whole subject is that even if it is ever proven to not be harmful (vaping) , do you think for one minute that the truth will be told to you? Besides that, even if it is proven to be harmful (beyond a shadow of a doubt) people should have their own right too choose to vape or not (unless it hurts other's) IMHO … So, as it currently stands, we are all in a bit of a dilemma … I wished vape shops would concentrate more on safety and educate their employees on safety... Not only can the vape shop be sued and shut down as a consequence of a single person getting injured from their products, but it looks bad for all people who vape... The first time a non-vaper sees that a person has gotten injured by a vape device then they automatically assume that ALL vaping is bad and horrible and they become biased. Let's face it, MOST folks do NOT vape and when they see a tragedy from a vape device on TV then the FDA has successfully accomplished it's smear campaign against vaping.

 

[Katya]

While I "wished" more people would know more about battery safety, sadly that is not the case, especially for new vapers.

Right. And, actually, everybody here has made valid points. If a shop sells items that are totally new to the general public, or are potentially dangerous, the owner is responsible for training staff (or at least training him/herself and being on premises during business hours). The owner should also teach the employees how to say "I'm sorry, I don't really know if this battery is safe for use in a mechanical mod and can't help you--we don't carry mechs, DYI coil building supplies, whatever." Nobody can possibly know everything about vaping, especially items they do not carry.

Having said that, I'm glad I discovered vaping almost exactly 9 years ago, found this forum, and kept educating myself continuously. I can't imagine starting from zero now--with all those complex mods with smart chips, DNA, multi-coil atties, batteries, DTL, MTL, TC... I can barely keep up with all the new technology and I consider myself a well-informed and experienced vaper.

 

[Letitia]

No one quits buying a jig saw if I lose a couple fIngers or toes, nor does any shop owner get sued. Point is vape shops shouldn't be held to higher standards because any individual chooses to not educate themselves or knows better and still doesn't respect their batteries limitations. We vaper's aren't entitled to anything more than anyone else. Personally I would love the courts to refuse user error cases period. They do have the ability to not let these cases see the light of day.

 

[AXIOM_1]

Right. And, actually, everybody here has made valid points. If a shop sells items that are totally new to the general public, or are potentially dangerous, the owner is responsible for training staff (or at least training him/herself and being on premises during business hours). The owner should also teach the employees how to say "I'm sorry, I don't really know if this battery is safe for use in a mechanical mod and can't help you--we don't carry mechs, DYI coil building supplies, whatever." Nobody can possibly know everything about vaping, especially items they do not carry.

Having said that, I'm glad I discovered vaping almost exactly 9 years ago, found this forum, and kept educating myself continuously. I can't imagine starting from zero now--with all those complex mods with smart chips, DNA, multi-coil atties, batteries, DTL, MTL, TC... I can barely keep up with all the new technology and I consider myself a well-informed and experienced vaper.

yeah sweetie, that's what I meant by a "dilemma" … So many things are currently in flux .. you have the FDA + BT trying their best to peddle false info about vaping, then on the other side of the coin, you have a young industry (vaping) that is trying to grow but doing themselves a HUGE disservice by not teaching safety.... Now don't get me wrong, because it is my belief that in the future, vaping batteries and coil technology (they won't even use wire) will advance to where high powered batteries may no longer be needed to produce a vapor... In other words, a simple low powered battery may be all that is required (hence, no safety hazard) .... But, that time has not yet come, and in the meantime, we have to deal with these high amperage batteries, and people should know as much as they can about them.