Because regardless of truth and statistics, there's always truckers to blame. (sound familiar?)
And we still have trucks because people want and need... stuff... and it ALL comes by truck whether by ship, plane or train first or not.
Tapatyped
It's these kind of people that are going to ruin it for all of us...
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And we still have trucks because people want and need... stuff... and it ALL comes by truck whether by ship, plane or train first or not.
Tapatyped
they absolutely do not require each other.
where on earth do you come up with that?
i am not required by any standard to respect any inner city
illiterate gang banger. i however using common courtesy will
treat them as a human being unless the individual makes that
decision impossible.
common courtesy is how will deal with everyone in the world
we don't know.
respect is given to those we know because through their actions
towards others and your self they have earned it.
common courtesy is free.
respect is earned.
and screw my syntax.it doesn't bother me at all.
mike
So, what do you say in response to the person, who you go up to and ask to please be respectful and not cloud out your 8mo, and that person says, 'respect must be earned'?
We are using 'respect' to mean different things. Admiration, another definition of respect, is something that is 'earned." Holding someone in 'esteem' is a judgement largely based on one's own self-esteem. For instance, I don't admire Obama - in the least - but I do respect him in the sense he has earned it by accomplishing what others didn't - getting elected twice. Go figure.
But when you are asking the clouder to show respect, you are requesting a courtesy, that courtly behavior be given freely - without a payday or strings attached. It's a request no different than that being asked for by the 'illiterate' in Ferguson or Baltimore, or women or gays in some godforsaken sharia (or skinhead) country. It's a request that others be viewed as 100% equal, even the 8mo, even that homeless 80yo lady you might hold the subway door for. Not be ignored or dismissed or treated condescendingly or grudgingly so just because others might be looking. That respect is courtesy and courtesy is respect - that all are created equal with no payday required, that is the glue that holds us together. This is the respect I'm talking about. If you think about it, "Respect must be earned" has started more than one war and cost more than a few million lives.
But it's a silly argument for a silly thread full of bored people anyway. And now I'm bored of being bored so let's go have some fun
So, if we replace the obnoxious vaping habits with drunk rude customers, would it have the same outcome? Likely not, as he would have no business without customers. As someone else mentioned, he could have simply talked to them or posted signs discouraging the act.
This is nothing more than a red herring, the real problem is that BT and BG are losing money on vapers in more ways than one. They simply have to make it up somewhere so why not lump in vaping with tobacco, as they don't care how safe it is and only use safety as a means to scare the populace into believing we need more taxes and bans. But keep pushing the "big clouds are the problem" argument, keep your eyes closed to the real problem and stick your head in the sand.
I certainly don't see this thread as a train wreck, it's been very informative. Self entitlement of vapers has nothing to do with the fact that it's all about the money and they'll do what ever is necessary to keep the money flowing. Do you have any idea how much money they stand to lose if everyone quit smoking? This is the obvious problem.
They most certainly aren't going off public opinion anyway, they use things like this to try and form the public opinion when has the big clouds argument been used? Can you show me one instance, aside from forums where vapers are going against vapers? Is there a scary article out there demonizing the cloud chasers? The only place I've read about that is here on the forums.
Big Goverment, Big Pharma, Big Tobacco, and the ANTZ are the reasons for most of the hate.
But anyone blowing clouds in an inappropriate place and disrespectful manner is helping them.
The more we piss off the general public, the quicker and easier bans will be passed.
If I talk during a movie, it's going to piss people off.
If I talk loudly during a movie, it's going to piss them off a lot more.
This is just common sense.
But anyone blowing clouds in an inappropriate place and disrespectful manner is helping them.
The more we piss off the general public, the quicker and easier bans will be passed.
If I talk during a movie, it's going to piss people off.
If I talk loudly during a movie, it's going to piss them off a lot more.
This is just common sense.
Odd response.. You know about all the complaints a business may have in regards to vapers blowing clouds? You know of every step that owner tired to take before banning vaping? This response is just flat out odd... I could go on and on but why bother?
Big tobacco is part of the problem, no doubt but the public does not see them blowing huge cloud after cloud of what they see as smoke in the direction of their children.
You can blame big tobacco all you want but it's not them alone giving vapers a bad rap..
And yes, I do recognize that people disagree on what's inappropriate and disrespectful.
But there comes a point when it becomes fairly obvious.
When I 1st started vaping people used it to quit smoking. Now it's the cool thing and a sport for many. They are only interested in blowing clouds to look cool.. I wonder who they think it looks cool to though? Ma and Pa could care less and all they see is what they think is smoke.
There are plenty of vapers who vape zero nic and their only intent is to blow massive clouds to impress. They don't care where they are or who happens to be around. Because it's cool ya know.. LOL
Odd? How so? You're the one making empty claims. Post up the complaints in news articles, post up the stories from tv, if you can. Don't bother, I guess it's easier to deflect.
The only people I see giving vapers a bad rap are BG and people like you who have no leg to stand on, using fallacious arguments to try and bolster your position.
Show me some news articles or something other than your anecdotes and failed analogies, can you? I've never seen an article on big clouds as a reason to ban vaping. If you got them, post them up so I can be better informed.
No vaping signs are everywhere now so I guess in your mind they just manifested themselves because people were behaving like adults who were properly raised..
Oh my......................................
Everywhere? I must have missed them all.
How about posting some sources on why you believe some have posted no vaping signs because of the cloud chasers? You sure that's why you see them everywhere? Cloud chasers? Couldn't have anything with the demonizing vaping has gotten from the media and BG now could it.
Come to LA they are everywhere on businesses..
Yawn.. Why would there be a news article about a business putting up a no vaping sign? Now you are being ridiculous..
So now people using no nicotine at all is a problem?
Please correct me for misunderstanding this chain of events, but people that stopped smoking by using e-cigs that now blow huge clouds are a problem?
I'll start cycling to work from tomorrow and i work in Washington!
T
Well, if you didn't try to push as fact that the cloud chasers are the reason the signs went up, I wouldn't have asked you for a source. Now, you've made it clear that this is only your misguided opinion.
Answer the rest of my questions, they certainly aren't here in CO, but when they do start going up, can you prove it's the cloud chasers fault? Sorry you don't see the hidden agenda, or rather, are willfully ignorant to it.
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Not what I said at all.. Nice discredit attempt though but a massive FAIL!
So, what do you say in response to the person, who you go up to and ask to please be respectful and not cloud out your 8mo, and that person says, 'respect must be earned'?
We are using 'respect' to mean different things. Admiration, another definition of respect, is something that is 'earned." Holding someone in 'esteem' is a judgement largely based on one's own self-esteem. For instance, I don't admire Obama - in the least - but I do respect him in the sense he has earned it by accomplishing what others didn't - getting elected twice. Go figure.
But when you are asking the clouder to show respect, you are requesting a courtesy, that courtly behavior be given freely - without a payday or strings attached. It's a request no different than that being asked for by the 'illiterate' in Ferguson or Baltimore, or women or gays in some godforsaken sharia (or skinhead) country. It's a request that others be viewed as 100% equal, even the 8mo, even that homeless 80yo lady you might hold the subway door for. Not be ignored or dismissed or treated condescendingly or grudgingly so just because others might be looking. That respect is courtesy and courtesy is respect - that all are created equal with no payday required, that is the glue that holds us together. This is the respect I'm talking about. If you think about it, "Respect must be earned" has started more than one war and cost more than a few million lives.
But it's a silly argument for a silly thread full of bored people anyway. And now I'm bored of being bored so let's go have some fun
I wouldn't ask a stranger to respect anything; I might ask them to please be courteous to others who might not share their [whatever it is].
You're right, it is a rather silly argument, but I believe that language should be used with exactitude -- that's why we have so many synonyms, with mere shades of difference in the meaning of each. What is shown to strangers who have done nothing wrong is courtesy. What is shown to those for whom we've learned admiration, approbation, and perhaps even like and/or love though not necessarily, is respect, far *more* and deeper than mere courtesy. Respect those worthy of it; courtesy to those who've done nothing to make them ineligible for it. Actually courtesy never hurts, even if those to whom it is shown have gone out of their way to make it unlikely if not impossible -- courtesy rarely ever makes things *worse*, but discourtesy definitely can.
Andria
if you look a little higher, you will see i quoted you precisely. The difference we have would seem to be that i regard any non-smoking as success, and you regard huge non-nicotine clouds as my attempt to discredit you!
That's not the case at all and in an ideal world perhaps nobody would smoke or use nicotine. We both do not smoke any longer, so we agree at least on a cessation method that works.
My comments are not FAIL or WIN, because this is not zero sum game - all current smokers can win.
T
That's not the case at all and in an ideal world perhaps nobody would smoke or use nicotine. We both do not smoke any longer, so we agree at least on a cessation method that works.
My comments are not FAIL or WIN, because this is not zero sum game - all current smokers can win.
T
Again you are twisting what I said but that's the norm in this thread with some who think they can vape wherever and whenever they want.
The are many who have NEVER smoked. They took up vaping because it's the new and cool thing to do. The ONLY reason they vape is to blow massive clouds to impress.
If you vape zero nic and you blow clouds then good for you! If vaping got you off cigs then good for you and congrats! I haven't smoked a cig since 2009 thanks to vaping..
Blow massive clouds in your home, in your car, in the park, in the ect... NOT in a restaurant...
I've not seen them either. Most of the people writing the tidal wave of anti-vaping articles probably don't know clouds come in different sizes. But a reporter's grandmother having to walk through a big cloud on the way to the supermarket could still inform the reporter's opinion on the matter.
Which reporter?
I could win the lottery, not holding my breath.
Best not to assume that's the problem.
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