James Blonds thread about fatigue, malaise, lazyness from e-cigs

[djsvapour]

To djsvapour: So you think I am a heavy user by vaping 4-7 mls of liquid per day? I had previously reckoned I would use more than most people as I was a very heavy smoker before.

Gosh, you are kind of asking me the $20k question.

My answer is yes... and no.

Your total nicotine yield from smoking was higher than mine. I smoked hand rolled for the last 15 years before quitting, probably averaging 1 an hour of around 1.4mg. (20-25mg per day)
I think it's logical that you would vape more often than me.

We vape to stop ourselves relapsing (mostly?), not that I worry about that now. If it was gone tomorrow, I would use NRT and wind it down over 12 months... or not and just continue to buy NRT. Sourcing NRT that isn't a total rip-off is difficult but not impossible.

If somebody needs to vape 10ml instead of smoking, that's got to be done.

Personally speaking, I'd rather vape less with a higher strength and/or more satisfying power when I do vape. I guess I am trying to wean myself off the action....

 

[Juxtapose]

I say, take positive action in every aspect of your live

I thought that asking others if they had similar experiences and how they resolved them was taking positive action?

I have some great advice for you also

Try breathing in and then breathing out every day, it will help you to stay alive. Also eat food and drink water.

If you find my advice condescending or obtuse, then you can share my feelings as to your "great advice"

 

[BreSha6869]

My symptoms mirror your symptoms completely, I still have a couple neighbors that dont talk tome and go inside when I go out. My wife on the otherhand, totally understands, that is why I am o.k. withit. I did understand that it was an antidepressant when I initially filled script, but did not understand implications. Just wanted to quit smoking so badly. These doctors just hand these antidepressants out like candy, then sit back and wait for outcome,good or bad. They dont even Know what they actually do to a persons brain, just sad.

I used Xyban about 10 years ago and it really screwed me up initially. Oops!
I was initially given too high a dose. Once I got the right dose, I did quit and didn't smoke for over 3 years. Truly nasty stuff IME. Really screwed with my head.

I tried Chantrex a few years back and it made me feel really off. I could only use it for a week and then i gave up on it. Felt like I was having a heart attack at times. Lots of anxiety.

In any case, I am pretty completely that I am 100% ok from the cessatation drugs and don't think I have any lasting effects.

Re: vaping... In the few weeks I have been vaping, I have had times where I felt anxiety, lethargic and a bit of a buzz, but that was completely due to my nic consumption levels. I have lowered it, I now understand that it is not the same as a cigarette as far as how long it takes to be absorbed and I am very happy not smoking and using my vape.

 

[daviedog]

Thats a good point about the change of the work load of the liver, never even occurred to me.

To mmsjs and alien.
Regarding the value-costs of amino acids debated by yourselves it is not so expensive as I merely read up what food contains those essential aminos and then add them to my shopping list. Regular things like eggs, milk and beef are already on my list, asparagus is nice and no problem to buy. Just a new method of deciding on the method of compiling a shopping list.

To alien, never underestimate the power of placebos. They would never have been given that name if they didn't work. Many things are just perceptions in our minds and if we believe something is helping us, it actually does help us in terms of positive mental attitudes. Albiet just delusion or illusion, it helps.

To alien. Your rule of thumb "most supplements don't work", it sounds to me like you have made a detailed chemical analysis of more than 68% ( most ) of the supplements available worldwide in order to make this statement? I am surprised you found the time to visit a forum as you must be a highly educated, awarded, celebrated doctor of supplement science? Guessing just how many supplements are available today to be more than 500,000 and how many chemicals, vitamins and amino's you must have searched for in your tireless examinations to then arrive at your expert rule of thumb. Wow, I wonder how you fit all those containers inside your house? And all those petri dishes? and all the science papers you write?
Or perhaps not, perhaps instead you just made a careless assumption based on what you think, or what you read? Anything you were read, told, heard is not research based on empirical actual knowledge is it. Teaching others what you think that is not based on any hard evidence is very dangerous to those who might believe you. Its like the catholic church teaching people in 1500 the earth is at the center of the universe and all the planets orbit it. Air crash investigation explains in great detail how careless people cause many deaths by way of plane crashes every single year. The assume instead of know.

To Mr Mann, yes I noticed that "regulation" is harder to detect with e-cigs. Thus, if you smoke 5 regular fags in a chain your body knows it is time to lay off as there will be coughing, clogged up feeling, sick feeling etc. Vaping too much may have some signs but they are less than with actual smoke due to only 1 chemical instead of thousands.

Note to all, I have cut down to 0mg, 6mg and 18mg mixed up together so that is approx 7.333mg nicotine level now, feel slightly more perky and less boggy. Going off the the gym for my run shortly, it will be 61 minutes this time. Still however I have the feeling of needing to force myself to get started.

To Bunny killer, yes I am 50 as was stated in my first post.

I know the earth is not the center of the universe.
But it is flat. isn't it?..
.

 

[Juxtapose]

I know the earth is not the center of the universe.
But it is flat. isn't it?..

Yes Alien, I believe your earth is actually flat.

I also believe that the e-cig promotional posters that hide behind two ( or more ) accounts will suffer the wrath of genuine forum posters and the flat earth effect while believing they are smarter than the rest of us.

Despite what you may think, I am very pro e-cigs or else I wouldn't have been using them for 18 months, nothing else ever made me quit.

If they do have any side effects, I believe in my non-expert opinion ( which must be taken as nothing more than anecdotal evidence ) that these side effects are much less than encountered with real cigarettes.

 

[Juxtapose]

I used Xyban about 10 years ago and it really screwed me up initially. Oops!
I was initially given too high a dose. Once I got the right dose, I did quit and didn't smoke for over 3 years. Truly nasty stuff IME. Really screwed with my head.

Wondering now if there are any cases about Zyban permanently blocking up peoples Nicotine receptors or causing permanent mental issues? There are some incredibly serious articles warning about its side effects, including the link below.

FDA: Stop-smoking drugs Chantix, Zyban must carry suicide warning - USATODAY.com

Quick tot up seems to point to 200 suicides related to Zyban and Chantix, if I had known that I guess I would have tried the cold turkey model instead.

 

[BreSha6869]

Wondering now if there are any cases about Zyban permanently blocking up peoples Nicotine receptors or causing permanent mental issues? There are some incredibly serious articles warning about its side effects, including the link below.

FDA: Stop-smoking drugs Chantix, Zyban must carry suicide warning - USATODAY.com

Quick tot up seems to point to 200 suicides related to Zyban and Chantix, if I had known that I guess I would have tried the cold turkey model instead.

They are both really nasty IME. Cold turkey is just so hard for most though. 200 suicides sucks, but low considering how many millions of people globally have likely taken this stuff.

Surprised the big pharma companies didn't really push for some kind of vape gizmo to replicate actual smoking years ago. Likely has been early iterations of it, but I find it amusing that big pharma completely missed out on one of the best/easiest ways to quit smoking and suddenly a multi billion $$$ industry.

 

[Juxtapose]

Hello everyone.

Thank you to everyone who contributed

To all those who said " I never heard of people being sleepy, unwell, lackluster from vaping" well you can google this "e-cig causing drowsy" and you will find hundreds of examples.

Quick update

After reducing my nicotine levels to a mix of 0 + 6 + 12= 6mg (average) my tendency to nap at the middle of the day is reduced by about 50% to the point where I can manage to resist the nap.

It would seem that cutting to 4 or 5 mg will be enough to disable the nap wanting effect completely.

Also I don't feel any deprivation of nicotine after reducing down from average 12 to 18 mg liquids.

 

[AndriaD]

I also recommend WTA, but I recommend WholeCig's instead of Aroma, it's a LOT cheaper at Wholecig.

It's a lot harder to wean off of, than nicotine, so if you don't really NEED it, probably best to avoid it.

Andria

 

[Racehorse]

If anyone out there has some new info not mentioned in the JB thread, please share it.

I don't know who JB is, so I never read the topic.

However, as smokers, many people who had the smoking habit tended to be somewhat on teh "couch potato side" since cigs do cut down on one's ability to do marathon running, play tennis a few times a week, swim 100 laps, climb mountaiins, etc.

Although I WILL say that the first year I vaped I did feel like that. It may have been just coming off smoking. As it turns out the first month was the worst, and it was because I was vaping too high nicotine. I think I DID make some posts about feeling exhausted and tired around that time but don't want to go thru 10K posts to find those.

Once I got my levels straight, I felt better. To be honest, I felt a lot better as I continued to reduce my nic levels. But I did that very very slowly. It took me 3 years to get to 0%-3%.

I believe nicotine has BOTH a stimulant and seditive property ---- at least from what I've read.

I really didn't feel relaxed until I got to 0%.

But that is just ME. That has NO BEARING on anybody else's body or their requirements, physically or otherwise.

I just noticed that years ago, when I quit smoking cold turkey for 5 years, MANY years ago before there was vaping, that I just felt very calm all the time for the first time in my life. That was instructive, because when I started vaping (aftrer falling off the wagon and having started smoking again) I just decided my goals was to reduce my nicotine levels, to SEE if I would, indeed, become calmer. (hard to EXPLAIN that word.....I guess just an overall feeling of well-being.)

And, I did.

So for me, nicotine, while I craved it, wasn't really doing great stuff for me. I just could never get off it long enough to get to the "other side".

 

[djsvapour]

still following....

 

[Spencer87]

Actually. I feel you.

For some people this is a Nicotine thing. It has nothing to really do with the the E-Cig as oppose to the the Cigarettes. You just notice it probably because your Nicotine stream is a bit more constant now. Instead of taking in a big dose of nicotine , ie one cigarette, every hour or so, You are taking in Probably a few puffs every 15 minutes or so when at home.... or whenever you feel like it.
anyways. Nicotine has that effect on some people. when I quit smoking for 3 months.... I ended up getting a lot of energy.... and wanted to work out every day. That lasted until i thought... you know what would be really good after that intense workout? A cigarette. And that was the end of that (After a few more)

 

[Juxtapose]

Something I recall very vividly when I tried cold turkey ( many years ago ) , my perception of time altered.

When not smoking or getting any nicotine I noticed time went so slowly it seemed like a double length day. Maybe nicotine use speeds up space time within us?

 

[Juxtapose]

I don't know who JB is, so I never read the topic.

This was the thread I read originally. by JamesBlond

Vaping fatigue -- still have it after almost a year

 

[AndriaD]

Something I recall very vividly when I tried cold turkey ( many years ago ) , my perception of time altered.

When not smoking or getting any nicotine I noticed time went so slowly it seemed like a double length day. Maybe nicotine use speeds up space time within us?

No, I think it's a corollary of the idea that living in a closet may not make time stand still, but it sure seems to.

Andria

 

[djsvapour]

My energy is up, and my bills are down (my Nicotine running costs).

Not wishing to further muddy the waters, the original thread started by James Blond (006, the brother) was in relation to a product we now have 99% proof was not really providing the users with much Nicotine.

(It is plausible Mr Blond had effectively lowered his Nicotine so low, he was almost free of it - this scenario brings back the sometimes-mentioned argument that Nicotine users are effectively addicted forever. )

But, we (the community) know so much more these days, either through science or personal testimony.

I was at my lowest 'ebb' about a year into Vaping (discounting my comment below*). Using 1.5ml a day (of 12mg) I felt good mostly, but I did suffer from a malaise from time to time.

I vape more than 1.5ml these days, but try to keep the same dose, so 3ml of 6mg would be normal for me.

There are still unanswered questions out there. For me, *any day* without nicotine or caffeine seems to last an eternity. Most of my days, I don't want this feeling.

 

[djsvapour]

PS.

Back when Blond was 'on' Blu. I was 'on' E-Lites.

*That period of my life was the closest to insanity I ever came.

I conclude that a Nicotine addict with no Nicotine is a loose cannon, emotionally.

 

[Juxtapose]

I conclude that a Nicotine addict with no Nicotine is a loose cannon, emotionally.

I find your honesty and openness a delight to read djsvapour.

I have a strong interest in quantum physics and space time these days, so here we have another strange angle.

It seems to be the case by my experience and that of djsvapour that us nicotine addicts have an altered perception of time. It appears to go faster when on nicotine than without it.

In actual fact the last 3 days I have been using reduced nicotine levels and each time I look at my clock in the evening it seems to be about 2 hours earlier than I had expected it to be.

It is easy to say those silly expressions like "time flies when you are having fun" to explain this, but how can one truly explain this in scientific terms?

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

If anyone out there has some new info not mentioned in the JB thread, please share it.

I noticed it as well, not so bad though but...

Stand up every time you take a vape, you will be able to breathe deeper, it should help increase oxygen levels in your blood, a lot of us spend a lot of time watching youtube video's, posting in forums, researching products building coils etc etc, the simple act of standing up every time you vape can have a bigger impact than you think..

I started doing this a while back, eventually I got used to it, I find myself doing stuff I wouldn't normally do like cleaning the counters or filling the dishwasher every time I vape instead of doing it all at once like I'd normally do and when you start doing things you'll feel less lazy ^__^

Change your routine! Have a cup of coffee every morning? Have a glass of orange juice first, wait 15-20mins for your body to absorb it then have that cup of coffee...

Smoking was a huge part of all of our lives, now that we have quit our bodies have decided to start healing themselves, it's going to be drawing what it needs from our bodies to do it, more than a non-smoker, maybe start taking a multivitamin? This isn't an overnight process, it'll take a couple years to heal the brunt of it, longer if we don't aid the process.

As for sleep apnea, I got it about 2 months after quitting it only really started subsiding about 2 months ago, I still have it a bit but no cpap... If i'm not getting good sleep I take very low doses of melatonin 1/2 an hour before bed, 1 to 2 mg, it helps fix my sleep cycles anything over that gives me really strange dreams though lol... Don't need a prescription here in Canada but it's hard to find in low doses, not sure about the USA....

high doses of vitamin c help your lungs heal...

Hope this helps

 

[Juxtapose]

Change your routine! Have a cup of coffee every morning? Have a glass of orange juice first, wait 15-20mins for your body to absorb it then have that cup of coffee

Please explain the idea behind this orange juice routine? My research tells me that the regular ones are so loaded with sugars they are bad for weight gain.

If you have sleep apneoa then vitamin d is your deficiency, this is a strong bet after my studies.. We just find it harder to produce it was we get to 40 + and its not a vitamin at all but a hormone.

Everyone has a sign "Ive been an ex smoker for x days!" how do i get to add a sign?