Kanger subtank TSCs

[Confuzzled1969]

Just to be clear, refinement is a wonderful thing when it's used with a topper that allows it to work properly. My K4 coil makes decent vapor even when it's gunked up really badly. No more having to turn up the power like the old days.

Like I have been saying all along, it is not the device, it is the Kangertech OCC coils... None of my drippers have an issue (except with dual coils) and neither does the RBA section of the mini.

For the life of me though, I can't figure out why the OCC coils work better in the Nano than they do in the Mini???

 

[BNEAT]

Yep, Vapor Shark really should put a darn manual in these things or at least on their website...

Then again, if they did they would have to constantly update it as Evolv keeps changing things...

http://www.evolvapor.com/datasheet/dna40.pdf

 

[Confuzzled1969]

http://www.evolvapor.com/datasheet/dna40.pdf

Why thank you!!!

Nice to know it's out there, but it does not have the Atty Lock in it... I guess even Evolv hasn't updated it yet.

 

[Confuzzled1969]

I have been happily vaping with an OCC coil in the sub-tank mini, thanks to atty lock on the new rDNA 40... Evolv wins this one and has solved Kangertech's problem. Atty lock has been working all evening with a very satisfying and consistent vape!!!!!

 

[Kh888]

I am sorry if I missed it, but what is atty lock and how do you engage it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dr g]

The nano will be just right for the "stealthy" dna25 I'm gonna build next (when I get time)... smallest mod I've ever built was the "stealthy dna20/30's" and since battery options (C rating) matter (and limit choices) in small mods the DNA25 just will work as the minimum amperage for the 25's is 10 amps....

Note that the .15 ohm target for the OCC coils can be marginal for the DNA25.

That analogy makes no sense, water boils at 212F regardless.

The displayed temperature is the temperature of the coil, NOT the temperature of the juice, wick, or anything other than the coil.

This thread is about Kanger tanks, in which juice vaporizes at relatively the same temperature as any other tank. Trying to make people believe different tanks require drastically different temps is ridiculous.

They absolutely do, and anyone who uses the DNA40 for a good length of time will find this to be true. If you have not, you must be using very few atomizers and builds, or very similar ones.

You've been telling people since the beginning of this thread that trying to fool refinement by detaching/reattaching is "not proper operation and technically incorrect function". Instead, you tell them that there's nothing wrong with refinement and everyone should to turn up the temperature...by 100 degrees! I'm not sure why you think this is proper function over fooling refinement, even Evolv understands there are refinement issues with some devices, otherwise they wouldn't have modified their latest version with the option to turn it off. (yeah, yeah, we know, you think that was done to appease Busardo and all the rest of us crybabies who would like to have an accurate temperature at the coil)

No, it's to appease Busardo and all the rest of you crybabies who are fine that the temperature displayed isn't accurate as long as you don't have to click a button a few more times.

Atty lock disables temperature accuracy.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

I have been happily vaping with an OCC coil in the sub-tank mini, thanks to atty lock on the new rDNA 40... Evolv wins this one and has solved Kangertech's problem. Atty lock has been working all evening with a very satisfying and consistent vape!!!!!

Ok thats great but it doesn't explain why the mini has a problem and not the nano...
Just got some subtank TSCs so I will give it a try with both and report back asap!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Note that the .15 ohm target for the OCC coils can be marginal for the DNA25.



The displayed temperature is the temperature of the coil, NOT the temperature of the juice, wick, or anything other than the coil.



They absolutely do, and anyone who uses the DNA40 for a good length of time will find this to be true. If you have not, you must be using very few atomizers and builds, or very similar ones.



No, it's to appease Busardo and all the rest of you crybabies who are fine that the temperature displayed isn't accurate as long as you don't have to click a button a few more times.

Atty lock disables temperature accuracy.

Do you mean atty lock disables refinement??

 

[Confuzzled1969]

Ok thats great but it doesn't explain why the mini has a problem and not the nano...
Just got some subtank TSCs so I will give it a try with both and report back asap!

Yeah, that one I can't figure out for the life of me... Refinement does happen on the Nano, it just isn't a drastic reduction in temp the way it is in the Mini???

One thing to note, the mini with the RBA section works great, even with refinement...

 

[Confuzzled1969]

Do you mean atty lock disables refinement??

To the best of my understanding, that is precisely what it does.

And once again, I think this is Kangertech's problem with the OCC coils and the press connection of the coil legs. A weak connection only changes the resistance of the coil by fractions of an ohm, but those fractions are apparently what the DNA chip is looking for, so it effects the vape on them.

 

[pmadden]

On the Kanger pre-made coils talk here..... maybe why I'm not having issues is because I tighten the coils really good when installing them....and don't have the mini so the RBA issue I can't speak to from personal experience.. I too am awaiting the Atlantis coils.... hopefully soon.,...

I bought the Nautilus tank, not knowing the sub-ohm Atlantis was out already. Now they have nickel coils for the Nautilus at .3 ohm, so I'm happy again.

 

[BNEAT]

The displayed temperature is the average temperature across coil, NOT the temperature of the juice, wick, or anything other than the coil.

fixed, And I understand your point, but this is all we have to go by for the temperature of our juice.

They absolutely do, and anyone who uses the DNA40 for a good length of time will find this to be true. If you have not, you must be using very few atomizers and builds, or very similar ones.

The key words here are "drastically different temperatures". When the Kanger coils in question perform badly they require drastically higher temps to make satisfactory vapor. Which, btw, is exactly what happened when my K4 used to mess things up for me.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, and I'll admit, I only use Rayon for wicking material, but I dry fire every build to insure that my dry wick does NOT burn or discolor and THAT is my max temperature setting. If it doesn't perform at or below that temperature then I might try a different build in that atty, or try to figure out why it's not performing, but I would never dream of turning up the the temp and risk burning something just because my build isn't working. That would defeat the purpose of having TC.
I would rather have a temperature supplied by the juice makers, but we don't yet, so chard wick and bad taste are the only thing I have to go by for my max temp.

No, it's to appease Busardo and all the rest of you crybabies who are fine that the temperature displayed isn't accurate as long as you don't have to click a button a few more times.

Funny you mention the extra button clicks. It's my belief that Evolv didn't intend on users changing temp settings that often, otherwise they wouldn't have made it so hard to change. Again, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I use my temp setting to insure that things don't burn, not for controlling the the quality of my vape.

Atty lock disables temperature accuracy.

Another one of your infamous one-liners, and probably true in most cases. But for whatever reason, these coils/tanks are not functioning properly for lots of people. Personally, I wouldn't use them, and knowing what I (think) I know now, I probably wouldn't use Atty Lock. But it is a work-around for attys with springs envolved, or questionable 510s, or maybe, whatever the issue is with these tanks. If the resistance consistently checks the same, and the board reads it the same after reattaching, then how can you definitively say that refinement is more accurate in this situation?

 

[dr g]

fixed, And I understand your point, but this is all we have to go by for the temperature of our juice.

You can't go by it for the temperature of the juice, it's not what it is. And yes it can vary a LOT between builds, leg length, coil design, and wicking all affect how a build works at a given set temperature. Which is why, to address your later point, it's going to be very difficult for manufacturers to specify temperatures for juices, especially now that there is a option to turn off the self-calibration feature.

The key words here are "drastically different temperatures". When the Kanger coils in question perform badly they require drastically higher temps to make satisfactory vapor. Which, btw, is exactly what happened when my K4 used to mess things up for me.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong, and I'll admit, I only use Rayon for wicking material, but I dry fire every build to insure that my dry wick does NOT burn or discolor and THAT is my max temperature setting. If it doesn't perform at or below that temperature then I might try a different build in that atty, or try to figure out why it's not performing, but I would never dream of turning up the the temp and risk burning something just because my build isn't working. That would defeat the purpose of having TC.

In a properly working OCC coil refinement is not drastic.It is enough to alter the vape though, a few points at 0.15 make a fairly large change. Major resistance fluctuations are usually the result of a poor 510 connection. Bad grounding schema, dodgy threading, weak spring, not enough spring pressure, etc. That needs to be addressed if it is an issue, and disabling refinement will not fix these things.

Funny you mention the extra button clicks. It's my belief that Evolv didn't intend on users changing temp settings that often, otherwise they wouldn't have made it so hard to change. Again, maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I use my temp setting to insure that things don't burn, not for controlling the the quality of my vape.

That's a lot of reading between the lines and assumptions. I'm fairly sure they put the function where they did because that was the "open spot" in the control scheme. It is possible they did not intend for it to be changed often, but that has no bearing on whether you need to change it. They could well have underestimated. Clearly, they are not perfect.

Another one of your infamous one-liners, and probably true in most cases. But for whatever reason, these coils/tanks are not functioning properly for lots of people. Personally, I wouldn't use them, and knowing what I (think) I know now, I probably wouldn't use Atty Lock. But it is a work-around for attys with springs envolved, or questionable 510s, or maybe, whatever the issue is with these tanks. If the resistance consistently checks the same, and the board reads it the same after reattaching, then how can you definitively say that refinement is more accurate in this situation?

Problem is it's not a workaround for any of those things. Bad connections are going to cause problems of their own, disabling refinement actually makes things worse. It is to be expected that the OCC heads run at higher temperatures than short leg RBA builds, it has long exposed legs. It is normal for OCC heads to run near or above 500F.

The report of success using atty lock earlier actually proves this ... it shows that the build was stable and it was just the user's inability to accept the refined setting. If there was a connection issue the build would be prone to instability.

 

[retird]

I guess the importance placed on dry cotton scorch/burn temperature may cause confusion and the perception that the temp setting must be no higher than the dry burn temp. I guess knowing the scorch/burn temperature of cotton when dry is good information but not really a factor in me getting the best flavor/vapor from a build. I never have a dry coil in my tanks and I adjust temperature for best vape and not just to the scorch/burn temp of dry cotton. Depending on build, atty, and etc. I can get a great vape at 420F or at 480F depending on many factors.

As far as using "atty lock" we will see how effective/ineffective it will be in actual use by many folks. It may even magnify any connectivity situation, build flaws, atty flaws, and etc... for those not seeing refinement issues it may be a wash but for those having refinement issues it may be different..... imo.... we will see...

 

[Confuzzled1969]

The report of success using atty lock earlier actually proves this ... it shows that the build was stable and it was just the user's inability to accept the refined setting. If there was a connection issue the build would be prone to instability.

The report of success was me, and if the refined setting would have stayed and only required moving the temps one time, it would have been fine.

But getting a vape with very little vapor and flavor one time, I would crank up the temp and get a decent vape for a little while, then all of a sudden I am getting hot liquid burning my lips and tongue.. Then the dreaded burnt vape, then back to nice, it is all over the place, it isn't consistent at all.

The problem as best I can tell is that the build is not consistent and stable. The actual connections are changing as temp changes and it creates this scenario.

The coil is behaving very similar when it has the power applied, it is not reading the same under the refinement feature. The refinement feature is obviously not using the full power of the mod as when you are vaping, it uses much less power to detect resistance of the coil, probably by measuring the voltage drop across it. It isn't trying to fire the coil, it is just measuring it.

So once I get the OCC coil firing the way I want to, I turn on the atty lock and it keeps the DNA from adjusting to compensate for the changes that the refinement sees, but are obviously not really happening or I would not get the consistent vape I get from it.

And temp control still behaves and keeps the vape nice and consistent. In the end, some thing about the OCC coils creates an issue for the refinement feature.

Now as far my abilities and inabilities, I know what mine are. And accepting advice from an arrogant online presence that has not even identified how they are qualified to make the assertions they are making... well that is one of the things I am not willing to do...

 

[dr g]

The report of success was me, and if the refined setting would have stayed and only required moving the temps one time, it would have been fine.

But getting a vape with very little vapor and flavor one time, I would crank up the temp and get a decent vape for a little while, then all of a sudden I am getting hot liquid burning my lips and tongue.. Then the dreaded burnt vape, then back to nice, it is all over the place, it isn't consistent at all.

The problem as best I can tell is that the build is not consistent and stable. The actual connections are changing as temp changes and it creates this scenario.

Connection instability is not addressed by atty lock. You have improved your connectivity somehow and that solved your issue. On OCC coils it can be as simple as pressing the floating 510 pin in harder.

Refinement only affects the baseline reading. The mod still regulates in real time. If there was real resistance instability, it would still exist if refinement didn't happen and the vape would still be inconsistent.

Refinement should never fluctuate. That points to other issues that the user needs to address.

 

[BNEAT]

In a properly working OCC coil refinement is not drastic.It is enough to alter the vape though, a few points at 0.15 make a fairly large change. Major resistance fluctuations are usually the result of a poor 510 connection. Bad grounding schema, dodgy threading, weak spring, not enough spring pressure, etc. That needs to be addressed if it is an issue, and disabling refinement will not fix these things.


Problem is it's not a workaround for any of those things. Bad connections are going to cause problems of their own, disabling refinement actually makes things worse. It is to be expected that the OCC heads run at higher temperatures than short leg RBA builds, it has long exposed legs. It is normal for OCC heads to run near or above 500F.

The report of success using atty lock earlier actually proves this ... it shows that the build was stable and it was just the user's inability to accept the refined setting. If there was a connection issue the build would be prone to instability.

It sounds like we're almost on the same page here, but we're both speculating why these coils are doing what they are doing. I wouldn't use these coils because I suspect the length of the legs are what's causing the issue. (why they work better in one tank versus the other is beyond me) If it's the length of the legs, then wouldn't turning up the temperature OR turning on Atty Lock do pretty much the same thing?

Before refinement kicks in it sounds like these coils make decent vapor. Admittedly, I don't know (understand) what all happens during the refinement process, but the bottom line is (in this instance) the board cuts the power back significantly. If the user turns on Atty Lock it will continue to throw the same amount of power to the coil. Results: happy vaper, temp unknown.
On the other hand, If we let refinement do it's thing then the user would have to turn up the temperature to get decent vapor. Results: happy vaper, temp unknown

Either way, the the coil legs would be really hot

After these discussions I'm not recommending either method.

 

[Confuzzled1969]

Connection instability is not addressed by atty lock. You have improved your connectivity somehow and that solved your issue. On OCC coils it can be as simple as pressing the floating 510 pin in harder.

Refinement only affects the baseline reading. The mod still regulates in real time. If there was real resistance instability, it would still exist if refinement didn't happen and the vape would still be inconsistent.

The coil is obviously behaving the same under the conditions of the mod firing for vaping.

It is obviously NOT behaving the same for the refinement feature, or there would be no refinement.

These are two distinctly different modes of operation.

And both modes work fine with any other atty and the RBA section of the mini.

The only explanation that fits is the refinement feature obviously sees a change in resistance that is not present when the mod is firing.

But again, if you are going to be trying to refute everything someone is saying on here, WHAT special skills, abilities, credentials, or education backs you up?

Or, are you just another vapor that found and ohms law calculator pretending they are Guglielmo Marconi?

Sorry folks, I have wasted enough of your time, and my time, with dr g.... vape on

 

[BNEAT]

The report of success was me, and if the refined setting would have stayed and only required moving the temps one time, it would have been fine.

But getting a vape with very little vapor and flavor one time, I would crank up the temp and get a decent vape for a little while, then all of a sudden I am getting hot liquid burning my lips and tongue.. Then the dreaded burnt vape, then back to nice, it is all over the place, it isn't consistent at all.

The problem as best I can tell is that the build is not consistent and stable. The actual connections are changing as temp changes and it creates this scenario.

The coil is behaving very similar when it has the power applied, it is not reading the same under the refinement feature. The refinement feature is obviously not using the full power of the mod as when you are vaping, it uses much less power to detect resistance of the coil, probably by measuring the voltage drop across it. It isn't trying to fire the coil, it is just measuring it.

So once I get the OCC coil firing the way I want to, I turn on the atty lock and it keeps the DNA from adjusting to compensate for the changes that the refinement sees, but are obviously not really happening or I would not get the consistent vape I get from it.

And temp control still behaves and keeps the vape nice and consistent. In the end, some thing about the OCC coils creates an issue for the refinement feature.

Now as far my abilities and inabilities, I know what mine are. And accepting advice from an arrogant online presence that has not even identified how they are qualified to make the assertions they are making... well that is one of the things I am not willing to do...

Yeah, that's not exactly how I thought these things were behaving. You've got connection issues.

 

[retird]

It sounds like we're almost on the same page here, but we're both speculating why these coils are doing what they are doing. I wouldn't use these coils because I suspect the length of the legs are what's causing the issue. (why they work better in one tank versus the other is beyond me) If it's the length of the legs, then wouldn't turning up the temperature OR turning on Atty Lock do pretty much the same thing?

Before refinement kicks in it sounds like these coils make decent vapor. Admittedly, I don't know (understand) what all happens during the refinement process, but the bottom line is (in this instance) the board cuts the power back significantly. If the user turns on Atty Lock it will continue to throw the same amount of power to the coil. Results: happy vaper, temp unknown.
On the other hand, If we let refinement do it's thing then the user would have to turn up the temperature to get decent vapor. Results: happy vaper, temp unknown

After these discussions I'm not recommending either method.

One thing that may be a factor is wicking and air flow.... wicking unable to keep up equals reduced vapor....amount of air flow has an effect.....thus difference in tanks air flow and wicking may be a factor...just thinking out loud....