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when I fill the lite I hold it totally upside down to fill, and fill it with 4 mls of juice. I don't look at any air bubbles when I fill it at all, I just don't fill it completely up. also I am in the habit of not laying on its side so I really don't know if this does anything. im just so used to using genesis devices I still try to keep the k-lite upright. I have had it on its side by accident for a period of time and nothing different had happened to it. the only thing I can comment on is about the ceramic, I have vaped ceramic for a long time and if it isn't wrapped tight enough it will have a burnt taste. this was one of the draw backs people were having with it. after wrapping the coil on the ceramic wick there can be no gaps between the wire and wick, if so the wire in that area will glow hotter thus creating a slight burnt taste. I don't know if this is your issue or the wick is just not getting sufficiently wet enough to keep up with the vape. either way it shouldn't happen. I seen the gdeal wick and if im correct it is a one piece design, the entire wick is one piece and is molded specifically for the k-lite. I haven't tried this myself but what I can say is that ceramic, or at least the ceramic that was used for the genesis devices(fc-2000) doesn't really wick, it relys on tilting for saturation. now maybe these white wicks are different and they actually wick, but my knowledge with them makes me think that you may need some cotton to help with the wicking of the ceramic. my guess however is in the coil, did you hot wrap it? if so it is possible that one of the coil expanded creating a gap which is causing a slight burnt taste. as for the leak, maybe the wick is slightly to close or to far from the air hole
Hey Vap,
Well ceramic wicks fine it just doesn't hold much juice, but you're right, my standard genny set up with ceramic includes drapping a little cotton across the positive leg and it gives me a great vape. I hot wrap all my coils. The thing is that when I set up the thing works great, and will for an hour more. it doesn't start acting up until I get that flooding thing happening.I'm kind of confused about the negative air pressure, and am wondering if that's whats causing the problem.
Well ceramic wicks fine it just doesn't hold much juice, but you're right, my standard genny set up with ceramic includes drapping a little cotton across the positive leg and it gives me a great vape. I hot wrap all my coils. The thing is that when I set up the thing works great, and will for an hour more. it doesn't start acting up until I get that flooding thing happening.I'm kind of confused about the negative air pressure, and am wondering if that's whats causing the problem.
yah I guess if they happen in unison its to much of a coincidence, so one might be creating the other. is it possible that because the ceramic doesn't hold much juice that it floods? I wonder what would happen if the k-lite was set up with no wick at all, just a coil, would it flood? is it possible that silica or cotton prevents the atty from leaking? not really sure. also would the device tend to flood more if someone were to live in higher altitudes? I still haven't figured out all the possibilities of this pressure atty yet. how is your o-ring in the tin cap? I know that little oring is a vital part when it comes to the pressure.
Yeah I was thinking along the same lines. if you have a material that can hold a huge amount of juice like say cotton would you really know if the atty flooded... your wick would just hold the juice. I think i may have some tiny leak that over time allows the negative pressure to break. or does rough handeling break the negative pressure and since the ceramic will only hold a limited amount of juice the chamber then starts to fill.
So I tried my very 1st dual coil build right now!! I used twisted 32ga and ended up doin 2 micro coils at about 8 wraps each. Came out to about 0.68 ohms. IMO I doesnt seem to hit any different then when I do a 30ga 10 wrap at about 1.5-1.8 ohms just a bit warmer. Vape production is about the same. 1 think I noticed was my button was getting a little hot?!? I only filled it about a quarter and might try a single micro coil with twisted 32ga kanthal as I have about 98 feet left lol (I got it for using with the killer 705 but ended up selling it). Has anyone here used 32ga?
the kayfun works on pressure differential, the tank needs to be 100% sealed air tight or it will leak. when assembling it you need to torque down the ring around the coil well, tight enough to be air tight and stay that way, then the chimney stack thing also needs to be tightened well, then the tank assy, basically any fitting that is not fully tightened and 100% sealed will cause it to leak and flood, hand tight of course, but tight.
the kayfun works on pressure differential. to understand how it works I'll try to explain. if you take a straw, stick it in a glass of water and then place your finger over the end of the straw sealing it and then lift it from the glass you will see that the straw will stay full of fluid right up to the level it was when you sealed the end with your finger. if your seal at your fingertip is really 100% airtight the fluid will remain in the straw indefinitely... as soon as you let an amount of air into the straw at your finger the amount of air you let in is matched with an equal amount of water leaking out of the bottom of the straw, if you then seal the tip again with your finger the water will stop flowing out and again be held there. the "straw" is equal to the tank of the kayfun and you can see how any air leak, even on the parts internal will cause the tank (straw) to loose fluid and flood the device...
the second thing to understand is that the fluid is pulled out of the tank through the 2 holes at the bottom that feed the coil chamber. it is pulled out of the tank as you draw on the device, your draw crates a vacuum which is equal to what would happen if you took the straw with fluid and raised it up over your head and then sucked a little from the down pointed end, what would happen is even though your finger is sealing the end of the straw, your sucking on the other end of it would counteract and surpass the vacuum that is holding the fluid in the straw and allow you to suck some fluid out, if you sucked a little and removed some water and then released, what would happen would be that the amount of water you removed would then be sucked back into the straw as air bubbles rising to the top, just as the kayfun does every time you draw on it, the suction removes a small amount of fluid, then when the suction is released the same amount of air is sucked back into the tank causing the air bubbles to rise up after each draw.
if you adjust the air flow too tight(lite don't have airflow adjustment but other kayfuns do) then the tighter draw would cause even more suction to the tank because the pressure differential would be higher causing more fluid to flow and could cause flooding, the same thing can happen if you draw too hard, again your draw is sucking fluid from the tank every time you draw on it so a lighter draw can cut down on flooding and/or gurgling.
the kayfun relies on both lower holes at the coil feed to be at the bottom of the tank and both under fluid for it to hold vacuum like the straw scenario. when the tank is relatively full then it usually won't leak even if laid on it's side because capillary action should keep fluid at the bottom of the tank covering both holes, this why it is designed wit a very tight wall to tank clearance at the very bottom, to use capillary action to keep both holes in the fluid as much as practical yet still allow enough flow, but if at any time while laying on it's side one of these 2 holes winds up being exposed to the air bubble at the highest point of the tank then this whole seal is lost and the fluid will flood into the atty chamber through the lower hole, with the fluid naturally seeking level and can really cause a lot of fluid loss, enough to potentially just about empty the tank depending on where the holes happen to be oriented, so you should avoid a situation when one of the lower feed holes can become high enough to be above the fluid level as when it's laid on it's side with a much less than full tank. if it's turned upside down then both holes will be uncovered, of course releasing the vacuum hold, but since there is no fluid above the level at either hole then no fluid can leak out, but of course no fluid can feed the atty chamber either, this is why you can't vape it while lying down and turning the device upside down to vape
there would be no issue at higher altitude because while the pressure is less it will be less both inside and outside the tank, so it would work exactly the same as it does at sea level, the whole vacuum holding straw scenario is not dependent on any absolute pressure, only in pressure differentials. if you took a kayfun on a plane and flew to altitude and then landed again you would loose a slight amount of fluid as the plane gained altitude because the pressure would reduce outside of the tank, causing the pressure inside the tank to be higher, pressure will always try to equalize if it can and in this case it would equalize by ejecting a small amount of fluid from the bottom 2 holes into the atty chamber, then, as you descended and the pressure rose it would wind up causing the tank to take in volume, this would be indicated by seeing an air bubble rise in the tank, but it would not be a huge amount of fluid exchanged through the whole ascend and descend and would probably only feed about as much fluid as an average draw or 2, especially since the passenger cabin is somewhat pressurized in flight. if you are going to be severely changing altitude quickly with a kayfun and don't want any fluid to empty into the atty chamber then simply store it upside down for the transition in altitudes but unless you are going from sea level to the outer atmosphere the fluid loss wouldn't be too significant
hope I didn't dumb this down too much or type too much but it seems some don't get how this thing works, hope some may understand it a little better from this post. It works much like a bird feeder internally, and the fluid only rises above the deck height to wet the wick as you draw then retracts an equal amount when you stop. as long as there are no leaks and you keep both feed holes under fluid it should not flood, you do somewhat regulate the fluid feed with your draw. if you see that it tends to gurgle sometimes then a good strategy would be to press the trigger for a few seconds before drawing, then don't draw too hard, kayfun recommends doing this method and they also recommend holding the trigger for a few seconds after the draw too if you are experiencing flooding from the draw... trigger, wait few seconds, draw as long as you like, then release draw, continue holding trigger few seconds after draw then release... playing around with this should get you to the point of regulating the flow to get it right, it' almost foolproof but it can take a little tinkering to fine tune to a perfect balance of enough fluid feed but not too much fluid feed. once you get it down right the kayfun is an awesome feeding strategy, combined with the tiny atty chamber that funnels down to a chimney it is a very efficient device, and can be fine tuned even further by being aware of your draw and adjusting to suit, and even adjusting your firing to draw ratio to get to the perfect vape. it's not 100% foolproof but with a little tinkering can be mastered with a little patience and trial and error
the kayfun works on pressure differential. to understand how it works I'll try to explain. if you take a straw, stick it in a glass of water and then place your finger over the end of the straw sealing it and then lift it from the glass you will see that the straw will stay full of fluid right up to the level it was when you sealed the end with your finger. if your seal at your fingertip is really 100% airtight the fluid will remain in the straw indefinitely... as soon as you let an amount of air into the straw at your finger the amount of air you let in is matched with an equal amount of water leaking out of the bottom of the straw, if you then seal the tip again with your finger the water will stop flowing out and again be held there. the "straw" is equal to the tank of the kayfun and you can see how any air leak, even on the parts internal will cause the tank (straw) to loose fluid and flood the device...
the second thing to understand is that the fluid is pulled out of the tank through the 2 holes at the bottom that feed the coil chamber. it is pulled out of the tank as you draw on the device, your draw crates a vacuum which is equal to what would happen if you took the straw with fluid and raised it up over your head and then sucked a little from the down pointed end, what would happen is even though your finger is sealing the end of the straw, your sucking on the other end of it would counteract and surpass the vacuum that is holding the fluid in the straw and allow you to suck some fluid out, if you sucked a little and removed some water and then released, what would happen would be that the amount of water you removed would then be sucked back into the straw as air bubbles rising to the top, just as the kayfun does every time you draw on it, the suction removes a small amount of fluid, then when the suction is released the same amount of air is sucked back into the tank causing the air bubbles to rise up after each draw.
if you adjust the air flow too tight(lite don't have airflow adjustment but other kayfuns do) then the tighter draw would cause even more suction to the tank because the pressure differential would be higher causing more fluid to flow and could cause flooding, the same thing can happen if you draw too hard, again your draw is sucking fluid from the tank every time you draw on it so a lighter draw can cut down on flooding and/or gurgling.
the kayfun relies on both lower holes at the coil feed to be at the bottom of the tank and both under fluid for it to hold vacuum like the straw scenario. when the tank is relatively full then it usually won't leak even if laid on it's side because capillary action should keep fluid at the bottom of the tank covering both holes, this why it is designed wit a very tight wall to tank clearance at the very bottom, to use capillary action to keep both holes in the fluid as much as practical yet still allow enough flow, but if at any time while laying on it's side one of these 2 holes winds up being exposed to the air bubble at the highest point of the tank then this whole seal is lost and the fluid will flood into the atty chamber through the lower hole, with the fluid naturally seeking level and can really cause a lot of fluid loss, enough to potentially just about empty the tank depending on where the holes happen to be oriented, so you should avoid a situation when one of the lower feed holes can become high enough to be above the fluid level as when it's laid on it's side with a much less than full tank. if it's turned upside down then both holes will be uncovered, of course releasing the vacuum hold, but since there is no fluid above the level at either hole then no fluid can leak out, but of course no fluid can feed the atty chamber either, this is why you can't vape it while lying down and turning the device upside down to vape
there would be no issue at higher altitude because while the pressure is less it will be less both inside and outside the tank, so it would work exactly the same as it does at sea level, the whole vacuum holding straw scenario is not dependent on any absolute pressure, only in pressure differentials. if you took a kayfun on a plane and flew to altitude and then landed again you would loose a slight amount of fluid as the plane gained altitude because the pressure would reduce outside of the tank, causing the pressure inside the tank to be higher, pressure will always try to equalize if it can and in this case it would equalize by ejecting a small amount of fluid from the bottom 2 holes into the atty chamber, then, as you descended and the pressure rose it would wind up causing the tank to take in volume, this would be indicated by seeing an air bubble rise in the tank, but it would not be a huge amount of fluid exchanged through the whole ascend and descend and would probably only feed about as much fluid as an average draw or 2, especially since the passenger cabin is somewhat pressurized in flight. if you are going to be severely changing altitude quickly with a kayfun and don't want any fluid to empty into the atty chamber then simply store it upside down for the transition in altitudes but unless you are going from sea level to the outer atmosphere the fluid loss wouldn't be too significant
hope I didn't dumb this down too much or type too much but it seems some don't get how this thing works, hope some may understand it a little better from this post. It works much like a bird feeder internally, and the fluid only rises above the deck height to wet the wick as you draw then retracts an equal amount when you stop. as long as there are no leaks and you keep both feed holes under fluid it should not flood, you do somewhat regulate the fluid feed with your draw. if you see that it tends to gurgle sometimes then a good strategy would be to press the trigger for a few seconds before drawing, then don't draw too hard, kayfun recommends doing this method and they also recommend holding the trigger for a few seconds after the draw too if you are experiencing flooding from the draw... trigger, wait few seconds, draw as long as you like, then release draw, continue holding trigger few seconds after draw then release... playing around with this should get you to the point of regulating the flow to get it right, it' almost foolproof but it can take a little tinkering to fine tune to a perfect balance of enough fluid feed but not too much fluid feed. once you get it down right the kayfun is an awesome feeding strategy, combined with the tiny atty chamber that funnels down to a chimney it is a very efficient device, and can be fine tuned even further by being aware of your draw and adjusting to suit, and even adjusting your firing to draw ratio to get to the perfect vape. it's not 100% foolproof but with a little tinkering can be mastered with a little patience and trial and error
In one of Busardo's videos, you'll see the white ceramic wicks very well even when it's vertical
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Very good explanation. As I said in an earlier post, a lot of people are under the impression that the Kayfun is a pressurized device. It's not; at least in the sense of a tire, or an air tank, which are pressurized to some point above atmospheric pressure. The Kayfun is a differential pressure device.
At any rate, it's ingenious. IMO, the Kayfun is one of the most innovative devices to come to the vaping world in a long time; at least since the introduction of the first genesis types.
Using ceramic in the KFL is no different with wicking than using cotton. (Except that it lasts longer, is much more durable and has a more pure taste if set up right. IMO) Equality 7 - I think Vapdivrr may have diagnosed your issue. If you have a loose wrap, its the equivalent of having a genny hot leg and that coil will get hotter than the others and give you a burnt taste.
Rule 62s earlier explanation and Turbocab detailed explanation (really well done!) should be required reading for using this device (100% correct)
I enjoy Phils videos, they are entertaining and informative, but he completely missed the mark on his wick tests. (read "Fail"). I posted this in the ceramics thread a while back. If you correct for his oversight of not leveling the cardboard, the white wick out performs everything else.
Rule 62s earlier explanation and Turbocab detailed explanation (really well done!) should be required reading for using this device (100% correct)
I enjoy Phils videos, they are entertaining and informative, but he completely missed the mark on his wick tests. (read "Fail"). I posted this in the ceramics thread a while back. If you correct for his oversight of not leveling the cardboard, the white wick out performs everything else.
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say for instance you do break the seal through laying it down or getting one of the intake holes exposed to air....is it possible somehow to recreate the negative pressure again without draining the whole thing, and refilling it again.
The only thing that will really correct this so you dont need to remove juice and/or take apart the device is to vape though it with light puffs.
Eventually the excess will be vaporized, light puffs will keep the pressure changes lower and juice flow from the tank at a minimum. You may be able to get juice in the air pathway back into the wick area, but more than likely a bit of residual juice may come out the air inlet on the side.
Sorry, but I don't find this to be true at all.
I leave mine laying flat on its side all the time. Even with the air hole pointing parallel to the tabletop - so one juice channel is pointing straight down submerged in juice, the other straight up exposed to air, there is never any flooding.
From the Kayfun Lite Manual.
"Minor leaks may also happen if the tank is filled completely, or it is filled more than halfway while Kayfun Lite is lying horizontally or with mouthpiece tilted down for some time.
In this case, one of the grooves (1h) could be at the top "in the air" and another one at the bottom dipped into e-liquid.
In this case the air will escape from evaporation chamber through the top groove and e-liquid will flow from the tank to the evaporation chamber through the bottom groove.
Naturally this process stops as soon as both grooves are covered with e-liquid.
Make sure that both grooves are always covered with e-liquid, keep Kayfun Lite horizontally in such a way that the mouthpiece is always slightly higher than the evaporation chamber. Even better, keep it in the vertical (or near vertical) position if your battery mod allows it."
If your juice is thick the process will be slower if the tank is filled more than half way.
^ I have found the same to be true....
I leave mine lying on its side all the time, because I knock it over if I do stand it up.
-Its why i really picked this atty, it does'nt leak, and for the flavor it produces...
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-I don't keep my KFL upright, leave it horizontally atop the mod all the time,
-I don't fill the tank to capacity, just 4/5ths, thus that air-bubble is always floating.
I never had any leaks from the air-hole.
-I do fire first and then take a draw, stop drawing and only then cease firing,
-I do take slow and long draws, unlike how I did with Cartos & Gennys.
-I don't fill the tank to capacity, just 4/5ths, thus that air-bubble is always floating.
I never had any leaks from the air-hole.
-I do fire first and then take a draw, stop drawing and only then cease firing,
-I do take slow and long draws, unlike how I did with Cartos & Gennys.
You could also turn it upside down and blow the excess into a rag. The holes that connect the tank to the heating chamber will be elevated out of the liquid and will not continue to fill as it would if you try to blow out the excess in normal orientation causing continued flooding. You can also vape it inverted to clear a flooded condition.
The only time I have seen leaking from my KFL, with the exception of operator error 
, is by having the atty @ a negative 30° for 10 minutes or so. Nothing dropped out the DT, but I tasted my juice the next time I took a draw.
Why would I have the atty @ a negative? Because I was laying on the couch
, is by having the atty @ a negative 30° for 10 minutes or so. Nothing dropped out the DT, but I tasted my juice the next time I took a draw.Why would I have the atty @ a negative? Because I was laying on the couch
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