As for Juuling, the problem is it eventually leads to sexting. And from there it spirals down until cats are breeding with dogs and Western civilization collapses.
Kids and "Juuling*
- Thread starter LyLyV
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Do none of us remember how easy it was to acquire contraband as teenagers? Takes little to no effort.
I agree. And no amount of fearmongering is going to change anything. Did we not learn anything from the Prohibition? There will always be a black market for THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT, whether it be alcohol or drugs or guns. Banning things or additional laws is not the logical solution. History has proven that beyond a shadow of doubt.
If teens are using e-cigs, then authorities need to find where and from whom they got them. And then prosecute them (kids or adults) to the full extent of the law. In my state, that can be a hefty fine and jail time.
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In theory I agree, but the reality is this issue is not a priority in understaffed police departments. It is up to the parents and schools to find the source and report their findings to the PD. I personally would rather PD keep their focus on more serious crimes.
I think there is too much policing of teens these days, and it's a shame. When I was young, if something "bad" happened, the parents would call each other, or talk to school personnel, etc. These days, parents have little involvement and then the police "catch" and create future criminals. The Juvenile Prison in my town is pretty epically awful. My stepdad used to work there and I've visited kiddo's I worked with there. Locked up, and with a "record" that they will later have to "expunge" if they are lucky. It's policing for profit around here, and I don't like it one bit.
When my son finally asked to go to a public HS, I let him. I also got to know school staff, and other parents. But it's a LOT harder these days. When my kiddo decided to "unfriend" a gang member in 10th grade because he was getting in too much trouble, I hauled my .... in to the (new, from Chicago) principal who had basically turned a "functional but steady, but not great situation" into a pressure cooker by thinking he could "crack down" on the gang kids. He thought he was pretty tough, but I have worked with a LOT of gang kids here, and they're vicious, and nothing like Chicago. So he created a simmering powder keg of awful by "cracking down" on illicit teen stuff.
He was quite surprised when I showed up in his office, and demanded to know how he was going to keep my kid "safe" in school. His "opinion" was the fight was "after hours," and my opinion went on a LONG time but basically contained the following facts:
1) You are big and "tough" and think you can fix juvenile gangs, so why aren't you going to give me a safety plan moving forward?
2) My son and the gang kid both attend your school, what will you do?
3) Okay, nothing? Let's get my kid withdrawn TODAY and he can complete his GED because if you can't maintain a safe environment I will not subject my son to this.
4) My husband got so mad he called the media and our governor and eventually that school got safety support personnel and the new principal it needed AFTER a kid got badly damaged, but it wasn't MY kid.
Teens need a certain amount of illicit activity to learn life lessons, but they also need a container of safety, and that should be the school, the parents, NOT the police. Not unless it gets really, really bad.
But mainly, kids today have so little structure and parental involvement in many cases, they don't get good outcomes by being "charged" with every offense.
If I had been "charged" with every offense, I'd still be locked up today, I think. But with parental involvement and school involvement, well, I got consequences:
Stuff like rehabs, residential treatment facilities, etc., things that at LEAST allowed me to address my problems, not get charged and treated like a criminal. Some teens are animals but most aren't and rehabs and RTCs aren't perfect, but they sure are better than hauling around a juvenile "record" that stays with you for life.
I think it's almost better to NOT charge kids at all as juveniles, unless it's something INSANELY major. For many kids around here, it's stuff like drinking alcohol in a public place. That should result in family therapy and etc. progressing up as needed, not an "open container" charge and then the police put that kid on their watch list.
We need police. We even need police SOMETIMES for kids. But mostly, kids need good parents and good schools.
Just my thoughts, as always.
Anna
When my son finally asked to go to a public HS, I let him. I also got to know school staff, and other parents. But it's a LOT harder these days. When my kiddo decided to "unfriend" a gang member in 10th grade because he was getting in too much trouble, I hauled my .... in to the (new, from Chicago) principal who had basically turned a "functional but steady, but not great situation" into a pressure cooker by thinking he could "crack down" on the gang kids. He thought he was pretty tough, but I have worked with a LOT of gang kids here, and they're vicious, and nothing like Chicago. So he created a simmering powder keg of awful by "cracking down" on illicit teen stuff.
He was quite surprised when I showed up in his office, and demanded to know how he was going to keep my kid "safe" in school. His "opinion" was the fight was "after hours," and my opinion went on a LONG time but basically contained the following facts:
1) You are big and "tough" and think you can fix juvenile gangs, so why aren't you going to give me a safety plan moving forward?
2) My son and the gang kid both attend your school, what will you do?
3) Okay, nothing? Let's get my kid withdrawn TODAY and he can complete his GED because if you can't maintain a safe environment I will not subject my son to this.
4) My husband got so mad he called the media and our governor and eventually that school got safety support personnel and the new principal it needed AFTER a kid got badly damaged, but it wasn't MY kid.
Teens need a certain amount of illicit activity to learn life lessons, but they also need a container of safety, and that should be the school, the parents, NOT the police. Not unless it gets really, really bad.
But mainly, kids today have so little structure and parental involvement in many cases, they don't get good outcomes by being "charged" with every offense.
If I had been "charged" with every offense, I'd still be locked up today, I think. But with parental involvement and school involvement, well, I got consequences:
Stuff like rehabs, residential treatment facilities, etc., things that at LEAST allowed me to address my problems, not get charged and treated like a criminal. Some teens are animals but most aren't and rehabs and RTCs aren't perfect, but they sure are better than hauling around a juvenile "record" that stays with you for life.
I think it's almost better to NOT charge kids at all as juveniles, unless it's something INSANELY major. For many kids around here, it's stuff like drinking alcohol in a public place. That should result in family therapy and etc. progressing up as needed, not an "open container" charge and then the police put that kid on their watch list.
We need police. We even need police SOMETIMES for kids. But mostly, kids need good parents and good schools.
Just my thoughts, as always.
Anna
Here is the problem:
Step 1. Get a Pre-paid Visa/Mastercard if you are 16 and have a job, or maybe from Grandma for Christmas/B-Day
Step 2. Order from some overseas company that doesn't check ID
Step 3. Win.
Step 4. Reload the card when you get more cash.
Since the government cannot force over seas vendors to conform to Age Checks, the only way to block it, is to block all imports of vape stuff.
Of course I doubt many teens actually do this now, but no matter what you do domestically, this will always be available as Plan "B".
Just FYI unless they were tried and convicted as an adult, juvenile records should get auto-sealed when they turn 18 and requires judicial approval and exceptional circumstances to unseal them. I agree with the rest of what you said though.
Why not? It's what the EU does: sellers have to register, part of that is proof of an age check. Unauthorized sellers packages get rejected (it's a bit more convoluted but that's the gist of it).
Yeah, my son learned this the hard way. When he was 17, he was expelled from school for smoking an illegal cigarette. He wasn't dedicated or self-disciplined enough to do online studies to get his GED. He's a good kid, but has low ambition. He is now 23 years old, has yet to pass his GED, and is working for minimum wage for a fast food restaurant.
The last time he drove with his temps, he came within inches of badly crashing my car. He was a reckless driver, even with me as a passenger. We both came to an agreement that he has no business driving and may never get a driver's license. Now he takes the metro bus where ever he needs to go.
Hard lessons learned.
On the flip side, my 22 year old daughter is just the opposite. She never got into trouble, graduated HS, went to college, and has a full time job making decent money.
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I suspect kids are getting things from older siblings.
I got everything I needed from my older brother, of course he tacked on his fee.
I got everything I needed from my older brother, of course he tacked on his fee.
Not in my state. In AZ, you are required to go seal them yourself. A lot of people also don't know that those "points" can be counted against you as an adult, if they are not sealed. They will NOT be sealed, the state has EVERY interest in filling its (slightly empty at the moment) prisons.
I am vastly familiar, my kiddo got dinged on an open container juvenile charge, and I got to sit through the parent version of "teen court" which was led by a nice gentleman who was a motivational speaker because he had horrific birth defects. He led us through a cheery summary of juvenile laws in Pima county over 6 hours.
I left calling him "Gollum" and I also left with the impression that kids can't do ANYTHING these days. My kiddo had to sit on teen court and they dealt with a case where a kiddo had yes, smoked "stuff" and passed out, and was passed out in a car that went and did a drive by shooting. .She was not aware it was happening she was passed out at the time, it was not her intention to do a drive by (I genuinely believe this) and while she may have needed help, she was incarcerated for murder until the age of 18.
When my kid hit 18, I told him to go get his records sealed, and even offered to assist.. He was in his "phase" so I wasn't going to MAKE him do it. When he got his "final consequence" into sobriety, those points were counted against him. I was GLAD in a way.... He got a decent outcome (in my opinion, bad enough to knock that last bit of arrogance out) and he hasn't driven in 3 years. He's finally done with fines, court, probation and etc. But, I guess that is what it took... for him. I also sent him to rehab, mainly because he was nuts and psycho and needed a safe place to "be" also for the purposes of court, and also because he NEEDED it, despite attending infinity AA Al-anon and Al-ateen with me from the age of about 2 up. Some kids just need that experience.
Thankfully, he was able to get his felony "expunged" and now has an extreme interest in laws and how to follow them.
But, I didn't enjoy "Teen court" at all. I thought it a waste of time, and really, to be frank, an "open container" charge.... Sheesh.
I could go on, but I'mma gonna stop. LOL.
Anna
I am vastly familiar, my kiddo got dinged on an open container juvenile charge, and I got to sit through the parent version of "teen court" which was led by a nice gentleman who was a motivational speaker because he had horrific birth defects. He led us through a cheery summary of juvenile laws in Pima county over 6 hours.
I left calling him "Gollum" and I also left with the impression that kids can't do ANYTHING these days. My kiddo had to sit on teen court and they dealt with a case where a kiddo had yes, smoked "stuff" and passed out, and was passed out in a car that went and did a drive by shooting. .She was not aware it was happening she was passed out at the time, it was not her intention to do a drive by (I genuinely believe this) and while she may have needed help, she was incarcerated for murder until the age of 18.
When my kid hit 18, I told him to go get his records sealed, and even offered to assist.. He was in his "phase" so I wasn't going to MAKE him do it. When he got his "final consequence" into sobriety, those points were counted against him. I was GLAD in a way.... He got a decent outcome (in my opinion, bad enough to knock that last bit of arrogance out) and he hasn't driven in 3 years. He's finally done with fines, court, probation and etc. But, I guess that is what it took... for him. I also sent him to rehab, mainly because he was nuts and psycho and needed a safe place to "be" also for the purposes of court, and also because he NEEDED it, despite attending infinity AA Al-anon and Al-ateen with me from the age of about 2 up. Some kids just need that experience.
Thankfully, he was able to get his felony "expunged" and now has an extreme interest in laws and how to follow them.
But, I didn't enjoy "Teen court" at all. I thought it a waste of time, and really, to be frank, an "open container" charge.... Sheesh.
I could go on, but I'mma gonna stop. LOL.
Anna
Gearbest is cheating and it regularly stops working. As soon as the UK leaves that cheat will be gone anyways and GB will have to look for a new way. Fasttech is a lottery and not all packages make it past customs. In some countries more pass in some countries less. The other chinese sellers are similar to FT.
In any case it's not a good enough chance to plan some kind of illicit business on.
It's far easier and more cost effective to have an adult buy the stuff and then resell to kids if that was ones "business" plan.
In any case it's not a good enough chance to plan some kind of illicit business on.
It's far easier and more cost effective to have an adult buy the stuff and then resell to kids if that was ones "business" plan.
Sadly I was the older brother, so I had to make friends with 21+ people. Although I never supplied my little brother, I think some of my older friends may have. Then again I didn't start smoking until I was 24, my younger brother started at 16.
Oh man, I was the older sis.... I was not a good example. Not even CLOSE.
Of course, I was also the oldest sis.... That meant "breaking in" my parents. I do believe this is the reason my little sister turned out so much "better" than me. I'm afraid I advised my little brother to try some things... He was into food and laziness, so I though he'd like it. He so did, and wound up cheating on his first GF with the person he experimented with..... I still feel AWFUL about it, although he's a musician so it would have happened sooner or later.
I guess I can comfort myself with the fact that I head of/took care of some crises for my younger siblings and did a lot of caretaking/raising them (my mom was a computer programmer for the human genome project, she was pretty busy) but being the oldest girl just SUCKS (if you ask me). LOL.
Anna
Of course, I was also the oldest sis.... That meant "breaking in" my parents. I do believe this is the reason my little sister turned out so much "better" than me. I'm afraid I advised my little brother to try some things... He was into food and laziness, so I though he'd like it. He so did, and wound up cheating on his first GF with the person he experimented with..... I still feel AWFUL about it, although he's a musician so it would have happened sooner or later.
I guess I can comfort myself with the fact that I head of/took care of some crises for my younger siblings and did a lot of caretaking/raising them (my mom was a computer programmer for the human genome project, she was pretty busy) but being the oldest girl just SUCKS (if you ask me). LOL.
Anna
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