The kids like Flavors claim
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I know you weren't being literal, but here it is anyway: http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=18
It occurred to me the other day that asking aloud "who likes to vape bubble gum flavor" is insulting. Which kinda seems obvious, but the way I was thinking about it was that it is intended to be insulting. As in, 'we absolutely know adults like that flavor, but we want to ask aloud the question just to take a jab at vapers for liking any flavor at all, and that one is good to make the point we want to make, while exploiting kids at the same time. Win-win from regulators perspective. Shame on you for enjoying your vapes with good flavors.'
Cause the inverse question could be asked with any flavor they come up with.
I.E. - What adult wouldn't like bubble gum flavor?
I.E. - What adult wouldn't like cotton candy flavor?
Plus the realization that if somehow (due to temporary insanity) the vendor community was to get rid of certain flavors in vain attempt to appease opposition, it is entirely likely that opposition would then target remaining flavors with same rhetoric. As in, 'who really likes to vape apple flavor? Or who likes to vape peppermint flavor?' Followed by, 'save the children, ban these flavors now.'
All just one big insult designed to hate on vaping.
Which is why it is good to hate on ANTZ and make sure all flavors stay around indefinitely.
Cause the inverse question could be asked with any flavor they come up with.
I.E. - What adult wouldn't like bubble gum flavor?
I.E. - What adult wouldn't like cotton candy flavor?
Plus the realization that if somehow (due to temporary insanity) the vendor community was to get rid of certain flavors in vain attempt to appease opposition, it is entirely likely that opposition would then target remaining flavors with same rhetoric. As in, 'who really likes to vape apple flavor? Or who likes to vape peppermint flavor?' Followed by, 'save the children, ban these flavors now.'
All just one big insult designed to hate on vaping.
Which is why it is good to hate on ANTZ and make sure all flavors stay around indefinitely.
The questions aren't insulting, they're propaganda.
What's insulting is they think anyone is so stupid to believe "adults don't like flavors" and these idiots who are paid very well to represent us not only think they can get away with it but the reason they are trying to get away with it is to represent someone else with special treatment. And not only that but they're willing to do it at the cost of people's health and lives.
Absolutely.
I never eat sweets, don't even care for the high end desserts I make except for once in a blue moon.
That does not mean I have the right to delegate or preach or slam bibles telling others what they should or should not like.
It's not about 'trapping' children - parenting is the best way to handle that.
It's just a way of shocking and scaring the public into bending over and spreading their cheeks. You see if the guys losing money from e-cigs can grab your attention by telling you we are smoking unknown chemicals which could be lethal, and the flavours will attract children who can and will die or end up as terrorists because of sweet flavoured eliquids (as they couldn't possibly be for adults who all hate sweet things), it takes your attention off of things like this:
Percent of smokers who began smoking before the age of 18 - 80%
Number of teens who begin smoking each year - 600,000
Percent of high school students who reported smoking in the last month - 23%
Percent of middle school students who reported having smoked - 11%
1 out of 5 teenagers who smoke are smoking 13 to 15 cigarettes a day
Packs of illegally purchased cigarettes for minors annually - 1.5 Million
Any plans to change any of the above? Naa it's just collateral that must be swept under the rug for the sake of a $765billion global industry. A little research will show that it's often stated that over 50% of 'official' medical science studies will give biased, skewed or even false information for financial benefit. Maybe why so many of the independent scientific studies which prove the benefits of e-cigs are brushed aside and deemed 'unofficial'
Percent of smokers who began smoking before the age of 18 - 80%
Number of teens who begin smoking each year - 600,000
Percent of high school students who reported smoking in the last month - 23%
Percent of middle school students who reported having smoked - 11%
1 out of 5 teenagers who smoke are smoking 13 to 15 cigarettes a day
Packs of illegally purchased cigarettes for minors annually - 1.5 Million
Any plans to change any of the above? Naa it's just collateral that must be swept under the rug for the sake of a $765billion global industry. A little research will show that it's often stated that over 50% of 'official' medical science studies will give biased, skewed or even false information for financial benefit. Maybe why so many of the independent scientific studies which prove the benefits of e-cigs are brushed aside and deemed 'unofficial'
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But, but, but...they have had restrictions on combustible cigarettes sales to minors, flavors, advertising, marketing to kids for decades. The same restrictions they are proposing for personal vaporizers, but this time it's going to work....
Insanity -- doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. At best the new restrictions would simply keep the safer alternative out of the hands of young SMOKERS.
I just posted a story in the media section where the kids/flavours argument was used in the BMA's meeting that solidified their policy to lobby government about banning vaping in public places.
I think the specious argument is used by different peeps for differing reasons: for some it's the money, and they know it's not true; for some it's power and control; for some, like a lot of doctors, it's ignorance and most importantly prejudice.
Doctors should be trained to be able to spot prejudice in their thinking; I'm only an engineer, but I was taught to watch for prejudice in my analytical processes. They see the results of smoking and they hate smoking, and that's fair enough. But if that hate turns into prejudice it's not fair enough because that pre-judgement means they are no longer capable of the thought required to make correct decisions, and they go on to solidify a policy that will kill a lot of people.
I think the specious argument is used by different peeps for differing reasons: for some it's the money, and they know it's not true; for some it's power and control; for some, like a lot of doctors, it's ignorance and most importantly prejudice.
Doctors should be trained to be able to spot prejudice in their thinking; I'm only an engineer, but I was taught to watch for prejudice in my analytical processes. They see the results of smoking and they hate smoking, and that's fair enough. But if that hate turns into prejudice it's not fair enough because that pre-judgement means they are no longer capable of the thought required to make correct decisions, and they go on to solidify a policy that will kill a lot of people.
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But, but, but...they have had restrictions on combustible cigarettes sales to minors, flavors, advertising, marketing to kids for decades. The same restrictions they are proposing for personal vaporizers, but this time it's going to work....
Insanity -- doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. At best the new restrictions would simply keep the safer alternative out of the hands of young SMOKERS.
If it was as simple as just making sure what we are using is moderated and safe, then i'd have no issue with it - but i doubt it, they don't care about us people, they care about us consumer. The cost of medical bills is greatly outweighed by the profit of cigs, at least in the UK - by around £7billion.
I think it is more about taking the production of PV's and liquids out of the hands of the passionate ex-smoker vendors we have today, and putting it in the hands of suits in tobacco company's who will mass produce shyte, but medically 'approved' shyte, that the government will tax, and they will have protected the revenue from the inevitable transition from combustible tobacco to liquids/solids and PV's.
But the original topic, sweet flavours for kids I think is just genuine fear one part (like when alco-pops came out as someone else highlighted), and the other part propaganda perpetuating the war that's going on between the little people (ex smokers turned ejuice connoisseurs/chefs and MOD makers) and the tobacco companies who seemed to have ironically teamed up with the pharmaceutical industry, its so sickening it's almost funny.
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Ah, but engineering and medicine are about as opposite as you can get. Engineering is scientific and rational. Medicine is guild based and empirical. In engineering you use logic to derive solutions from initial conditions. In medicine you use guild defined methods to determine treatments based on guild defined standards. In engineering, you analyze failures for future failure prevention. In medicine you blame failures on the situation then sweep it under the rug as an uncontrollable anomaly.
Completely different things. The guild based nature of medicine kills patients and then gets away with murder by blaming the patients for dying. Or,
I think that sick people in Ankh-Morpork generally go to a vet. It's generally a better bet. There's more pressure on a vet to get it right. People say "it was god's will" when granny dies, but they get angry when they lose a cow.
-- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)
I started smoking menthol cigarettes at 14,liked the flavor, and I also loved some Boone's Farm, too! Especially Strawberry Hill.
Apparently kids are not supposed to drink fruit juice or flavoured drinks with their food anymore, according to today's news in the UK. What are they to drink, then? The health bods say water. Just water. If that's so then we can turn the argument about fruit flavoured e-liquids around and say "Of course they're not aimed at children. The medical profession says that fruit flavours are bad for children. They're clearly aimed at adults." Or we could just say "You can't do it if you're not 18", make that a law and it all goes away... 
That's what I thought and still kinda think that. But I actually think it is intended to be insulting on top of being propaganda.
I think the people asking the question know adults like flavors and aren't angling for the notion that adults can't like the flavors. On the surface, it appears that way, but I think it is mostly about insulting users for enjoying something they fully intend on painting in a bad light. The propaganda angle makes them look like idiots (to us, perhaps to some non-vapers). The insult is directed at us to make us appear like we are shameful. IMO, that is their intent.
Their underlying message is that it is shameful that you enjoy vaping (these flavors).
I started smoking menthol cigarettes at 14,liked the flavor, and I also loved some Boone's Farm, too! Especially Strawberry Hill.
You just took me back 48 years, sitting in my buddy's living room watching wrestling on TV with a bottle of Boone's Farm in one hand and a Bud in the other, trying to light a Kool while his Sheepdog slobbered all over me ...
Good times ...
Apparently kids are not supposed to drink fruit juice or flavoured drinks with their food anymore, according to today's news in the UK. What are they to drink, then? The health bods say water. Just water. If that's so then we can turn the argument about fruit flavoured e-liquids around and say "Of course they're not aimed at children. The medical profession says that fruit flavours are bad for children. They're clearly aimed at adults." Or we could just say "You can't do it if you're not 18", make that a law and it all goes away...
That's probably "the human body can't filter water out of anything but water" nuts. They're pretty much looked at as nuts by anyone who's not gullible (which seems to be getting fewer and fewer, just look at how many are jumping on Gluten Free as a cure for everything, like living the life of someone with Celiac's is something anyone should want).
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