Let's Talk Batteries

[FeistyAlice]

Well. The Green and Blue Label Tenergy are 750mah (even if there is no written). Anyway, I suppose they are only nominal, because their effective autonomy is similar to that of the AW. which instead have 500 mah (many brands of batteries tend to write more amperage, even if the real value is indeed lower: in Italy we have conducted appropriate tests, to see precisely the difference between what is written on the battery and how much amperage is their real . Well, almost no battery respects the values ​​declared by the factory; the best are generally the AW cells that have around 96-97% of the declared amperage (not all of their models, though).
There are, instead, some brands that are even below 50% of their rated amperage (better for me not go into details, otherwise I risk annoying you. But if you are interested I can put the link of the tests we have done)

The Tenergy about which I was talking in my previous posts, are of yellow color (I bought them as soon as came out the first batts with chemical Li-Fe-po, almost 2 years ago...... now, I believe that are no more in the market). Well, these Tenergy are exactly those who have given me more satisfaction..... even after so long are still perfect, and measured as soon as they left the battery charger, they have almost 3.8-4v (even if, after some rest, they lose some charge, stabilizing at about 3,6-3,7 V

I hope I have made myself understood..... with my bad English it is not easy to talk about technical details

I do not know how many times we, who speak "English," have to tell you that your English is better than many speakers of English. Your explanations, reasonings, and points are very easy to understand.

And I would love the links to which you refer. I do hope one of my tranlators will do the information justice.

I have been searching for the Blue Labeled Tenergy batteries all over the Internet and the only ones I can find, with the Blue label, are Protected Li-ion @ 900 mAH. I have searched all of my records and can not estiblish where I purchased the Blue Label Tenergy. The word LiFEPO4 is only in very small lettering, in parentheses, with the warning about charging with appropriate charger. On the Green Labeled Tenergy they are identified as LiFEPO4 in the main name of the battery. I did find that the Green Label are 750 mAH and where I purchased the battery/charger sets; Battery Junction.

I'm suspecting that the Blue Label might not be LiFEPO4 rather protected Li-ion (cobalt chemistry). At any rate, if I decide to not trash the Tenergy, I will only use them in the Buzz Pro or the VV REO. In fact I am not going to doing any stacking any more unless it is in a device with Mike's chip. I actually stopped stacking months ago when the 5v batteries came out.

All of my batteries have reached a stable condition with each set having at least two charge use cycles.

And I can not express enough how FABULOUS, MX's suggestion to change battery positions, during one use cycle, is working out. The batteries are staying pretty close in metered voltage, which I'm doing each time I switch position. This will, for certain, maximize the life span of the batteries and assure we stay as far away from the "deadly" situation of uneven voltage of matched batteries in use. And it is just so easy to do!!!

Hugs, Feisty Alice

 

[FeistyAlice]

Mike, NotCigs, the developer of the chip being used in the VV REOs, just issued a statement in relation to the recent incident of an ecig cigar "blowing up" in a man's face, sending him to ER.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...you-have-any-doubts-concerns.html#post5330737

And while we are at it here is the link to the main page about batteries in ECF library. It may be the same page Tripp linked to. Several times they have warned, in bold letters, to stay away from the Tenergy batteries because of the dangers that develope with the low C rating of the Tenergy LiFEPO4, in stacked battery configuration. (I do, though, want to ask Mike if his control chip will take care of that issue.)

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

Hugs All, Feisty Alice

 

[tmcase]

From the ECF Library:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html



Toss those Tenergy RCR123a batteries, people. Or put them in your flashlight.

Never mind. I didn't read far enough.

I don't like this at all. I have tons of these Tenergy RCR123a batts.

 

[FeistyAlice]

From the ECF Library:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html



Toss those Tenergy RCR123a batteries, people. Or put them in your flashlight.

Hell NO!!!!! My flashlights specifically say to NOT use them!!!! In fact, I'm going to be using 18650s in a couple that have short stacked batteries in them, now. Duh!!! I can't use the 18650, in those flashlights, as they need 6v and not 3.7v. Just realized that when I got up to refresh my drink. I've never used LiFEPO4 in them; only the non-rechargable and protected Li-ion rechargeable. And I'm trashing my head lamps that take two RCR123As and getting a couple that take one larger single battery.{edit} Maybe... I need to study the safety of the non-rechargeable stacked 3.7 that I've been using. After revisiting the big Flashlight forum, and seeing all the reports of exploding flashlights, I'm looking at high powered flashlights in a whole different way. They can be as dangerous as PVs, in certain conditions.

{edit} There is one 6v headlamp that carries the stacked batteries on back of head. I tried to get one, several months ago, but they kept being back ordered and then said they couldn't get them at all. Looks like I'm going to have to get a higher priced one. I like the idea of having the batteries away from face.

Hugs, Feisty Alice

 

[FeistyAlice]

How do you know what the C rating is? It's not on any of my batteries. I have tons of those Tenergy RCR123a batts and I like them.

Here's a link where one person vaguely explains how to guesstimate the C rating. You'll have to read on down a bit. So far, what I've seen, a lot of reading, the Tenergy LiFEPO4s have ratings that can go even below 1C and not much above. This, keep in mind, is specifically for the small LiFEPO4 Tenergys. It does not apply to all Tenergy batteries. I've been using the 18650 Li-ion protected for years, in single configuration, in flashlights, and two that we just "dumped" were about 10 years old.

I hope this is the right link. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ergy-rcr123a-3-0v-750mah-lifepo4-buzz-pv.html

Hugs, Feisty Alice

 

[tmcase]

Here's a link where one person vaguely explains how to guesstimate the C rating. You'll have to read on down a bit. So far, what I've seen, a lot of reading, the Tenergy LiFEPO4s have ratings that can go even below 1C and not much above. This, keep in mind, is specifically for the small LiFEPO4 Tenergys. It does not apply to all Tenergy batteries. I've been using the 18650 Li-ion protected for years, in single configuration, in flashlights, and two that we just "dumped" were about 10 years old.

I hope this is the right link. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ergy-rcr123a-3-0v-750mah-lifepo4-buzz-pv.html

Hugs, Feisty Alice

I have Tenergy RCR123a and Lifepo4 RCR123a batteries. Are they both bad? Are they both the same?

 

[FeistyAlice]

Never mind. I didn't read far enough.

I don't like this at all. I have tons of these Tenergy RCR123a batts.

Let's ask Mike. His chip may be able to handle the issues with using the low C Tenergys. So don't toss them yet.

Hugs, Feisty Alice

 

[FeistyAlice]

I have Tenergy RCR123a and Lifepo4 RCR123a batteries. Are they both bad? Are they both the same?

That's a very good question and we need to find the answer.

Hugs, Feisty Alice

 

[FeistyAlice]

I have Tenergy RCR123a and Lifepo4 RCR123a batteries. Are they both bad? Are they both the same?

I stopped stacking when the 5v batteries came out. Keep in mind it's only one in several hundred or even a million instances that things go wrong. But who wants to be that one?

Hugs, Alice

 

[tmcase]

Let's ask Mike. His chip may be able to handle the issues with using the low C Tenergys. So don't toss them yet.

Hugs, Feisty Alice

Well what about using them in other mods that aren't VV? I use them in my Prodigy all the time.

 

[FeistyAlice]

Well what about using them in other mods that aren't VV? I use them in my Prodigy all the time.

From what I can glean, from the reading I've been doing, ecigs and flashlights, your risk is much higher if your device isn't regulated.

I just posted a question, to Mike, on the NotCigs thread where Mike made an announcement. If he answers before I go to bed I'll post it tonight, here. The link is http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...you-have-any-doubts-concerns.html#post5330737

Hugs, Alice

 

[FeistyAlice]

From what I can glean, from the reading I've been doing, ecigs and flashlights, your risk is much higher if your device isn't regulated.

I just posted a question, to Mike, on the NotCigs thread where Mike made an announcement. If he answers before I go to bed I'll post it tonight, here. The link is http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...you-have-any-doubts-concerns.html#post5330737

Hugs, Alice

Mike just answered but I need more clarification so I asked another question over there.

Hugs, Tired Alice

 

[tmcase]

Mike just answered but I need more clarification so I asked another question over there.

Hugs, Tired Alice

But he is talking about using the RCR123a batteries in the Buzz Pro. I don't have a BP. I want to know if my other mods are in danger, and me for that matter, but stacking them in other mods like the Prodigy V3.1 or any other mod that uses stacked batteries. I'm especially concerned about the Prodigy because the tiny vent holes are behind the switch so the gases would blow out the sides of the mod or hopefully blow the switch off. I'm sure I would notice heat building up in the tube before it got to that point though.

 

[FeistyAlice]

But he is talking about using the RCR123a batteries in the Buzz Pro. I don't have a BP. I want to know if my other mods are in danger, and me for that matter, but stacking them in other mods like the Prodigy V3.1 or any other mod that uses stacked batteries. I'm especially concerned about the Prodigy because the tiny vent holes are behind the switch so the gases would blow out the sides of the mod or hopefully blow the switch off. I'm sure I would notice heat building up in the tube before it got to that point though.

From what I have read you might not have a warning obvious enough and react to it fast enough to avoid injury. I don't think I posted a link and, sorry but I'm too tired to go on any more tonight, but a guy on one of the major flashlight forums, described, in detail, what happened when his flashlight batteries "exploded." He said it happened so fast and he had a moment of "deer in headlights" before he reacted that he was able to throw it on the floor but when it really blew, he was in the process of kicking it away. The lens on the flashlight shattered in to hundreds of small projectiles that embedded in his foot. Not a really serious injury but metal parts went flying, too.

If Mike answers my last question, I posted, a little while ago, in an easier to understand way, we'll have a better understanding. I personally, am not going to ever use, a low C rated battery, in stacked situation again. If Mike gives the go -ahead on using them in the Buzz Pro/VV REO then I may keep them. But I personally will not be ever again stacking them in anything but Mike's chip. The reports, on Flashlight forums, of major "exploding" episodes are, more than likely unregulated configurations. I'm not aware of any of our high voltage flashlights having any controllers in them.

The warnings on all Tenergy LiFEPO4 3 volt batteries, I found tonight, ALL say not to use them in certain 6v Flashlights (stacked). We've been using only the non rechargeable Li-ion 3v batteries in them for years. But it's not so important that we haven't had issues; it's the fact that there are enough reports to convince me to not use the low C batteries in high drain applications. I'm going to check out my head lamps to see what kind of draw they have to make sure they are safe and what rechargeable batteries are the safest to be used in them. If I can't get good enough info I'll get another headlamp, that has enough info for me to make a decision on safety.

Again, I wouldn't take the chance, using the Tenergy, low C, in a stacked configuration that requires high drain. You may be more okay using a pretty high ohm atty/carto but I'm not totally convinced.

Don't ever let one battery get too discharged. What causes the "exploding" batteries is the when one battery gets drained very low and the one with more voltage actually can go into a state where the polarity switches trying to charge the drained battery. That's when you get the problems.

Perhaps staying with a high ohm atty/carto, and switching the positions of batteries, several times, during one use cycle, to keep them closer in voltage, can provide some protection but I'm not willing to take the chance with the low C batteries unless Mike assures me there will be no issues with his chip. And I'll only do it with his chip.

If you really want to be safe just don't stack those Tenergys and use another PV until you know the limits of what you safely can draw from them.

Nite Nite and Hugs, Alice

 

[FeistyAlice]

One other really important thing. On the link, in the link to ECF battery safety info, the link, in three parts, where an import car shop caught fire it was determined that it was the LiFEPO4 battery, being charged, that started the fire. In the third part video, investigators did some testing. They threw a battery on the floor to cause damage to the battery. It was not apparant that the battery was damaged. The battery went into an explosion. They weren't charging it and I don't think they were even discharging it, but it exhibited the same reaction that could have started a fire if flammables were close to it.

I've been a little careless about using batteries when I drop them hard onto a hard surface. I don't know if other Lithium chemistries are as apt to "explode" from damage as the LiFEPO4, but I'm going to check it out. I'm not sure how you would test them for damage that would be dangerous other than isolating them in an area that won't pose risk to anything/anyone if they are damaged enough to explode either charging, discharging, or just sitting there. Another thing to check out.

Hugs, Alice

 

[gorman]

So, basically, the green LiFePo4 green tenergy are worth crap and are dangerous? Pretty much everyone that vapes at 6V with Reos, in Italy, is using them (myself included). Did I get this right?!?

 

[ufo]

I do not know how many times we, who speak "English," have to tell you that your English is better than many speakers of English. Your explanations, reasonings, and points are very easy to understand.

Thank you my friend.....I'm honored
I try to do my best, using the memories of the exams of English language, which I supported during the the university years, because the translation software or tha web translator, I realize that often are useless and take out nonsense phrases!!! If I should trust, solely, to their translations, you would take me for a fool

And I would love the links to which you refer. I do hope one of my tranlators will do the information justice.

I have been searching for the Blue Labeled Tenergy batteries all over the Internet and the only ones I can find, with the Blue label, are Protected Li-ion @ 900 mAH. I have searched all of my records and can not estiblish where I purchased the Blue Label Tenergy. The word LiFEPO4 is only in very small lettering, in parentheses, with the warning about charging with appropriate charger. On the Green Labeled Tenergy they are identified as LiFEPO4 in the main name of the battery. I did find that the Green Label are 750 mAH and where I purchased the battery/charger sets; Battery Junction.

I'm suspecting that the Blue Label might not be LiFEPO4 rather protected Li-ion (cobalt chemistry). At any rate, if I decide to not trash the Tenergy, I will only use them in the Buzz Pro or the VV REO. In fact I am not going to doing any stacking any more unless it is in a device with Mike's chip. I actually stopped stacking months ago when the 5v batteries came out.

All of my batteries have reached a stable condition with each set having at least two charge use cycles.

In fact, when you mentioned about the blue Tenergy Lifepo4 I I was surprised.
I know that these batteries are only Li-ion and not Lifepo4, but I did not say anything because there was the possibility that you'd buy in any store that I have never seen.
However, there is a very simple way to understand this. If they are simple Li-ion batteries, then they should have the protection circuit. This last, generally has a thickness of 1-1.5 mm and is positioned in the bottom of the batt. Thus, it is sufficient that you compare the blue Tenergy with the green ones, if the blue are longer than about 1mm, then they are surely the Li-I 900mAh

About the Green Label tenergy, they are sold as a battery of 750 mAH: Tenergy 30200 LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V (3.2V) 750mAh Rechargeable Battery (even if, as I said, I think their true amperage is about 500mAh)

Here is the link of the tests made by some engineers that are in my forum: Dati misurati sulle prestazioni delle batterie
The 3D is very long, but you read only the important posts (those with data, numbers, and graphics) that are at intervals along the 3d....... helping you with a translator, you should be able to understand what are the brands and type of batteries that have values ​​of amperage rated, that is close to the effective one (tests, in fact, have been conducted comparing various brands of 18650, 18490, 18350, 16340/CR123A, 15270, etc ...)

And here there is a post that I wrote about Tenergy lifepo4 vs AW Lifepo 3v (it is partially in English): http://www.esigarettaportal.it/forum/batterie/15800-tenergy-lifepo4-vs-aw-lifepo-3v.html

Then if you need a hand with the translation, I'm here for you

 

[BIGROG1982]

So, basically, the green LiFePo4 green tenergy are worth crap and are dangerous? Pretty much everyone that vapes at 6V with Reos, in Italy, is using them (myself included). Did I get this right?!?

Hi everyone I'm new to posting here. Not new to the reo( I've had a grand about 6 months) I also use the green tenergy's. I have used them for about 4 months,first couple of months I used the blue tenergy's. I have had no problem out of them and love both blue and green, until yesterday. I was vaping away and I notice my hit was cut short. When I took off the door of the reo the spring had collapsed and the tenergy's were very hot. They didn't explode but probably close (IMHO ) upon further inspection the mechanical switch had melted the bottom of the plastic button. Im no expert by no means but it all look like a dead short, although I had not used the reo any differently that I have for the last 6 months and things had been fine. I don't know if this helps anyone I hope it does. I just wanted to let everyone know, this happened within in seconds I didn't hold the button for more than 2 seconds before this happened. So everyone be carefull when stacking batts no matter what kind or chemistry they are.

 

[ufo]

So, basically, the green LiFePo4 green tenergy are worth crap and are dangerous? Pretty much everyone that vapes at 6V with Reos, in Italy, is using them (myself included). Did I get this right?!?

My friend, credo che non hai seguito attentamente quanto scritto nei link postati da Alice, se ti riferisci a questo: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s/76078-exploding-mods-current-situation.html

Lì si parla (quarto capoverso della parte "Incident analysis") di pericolo di esplosione solo riguardo alle li-ion non protette (come tutti sappiamo ormai da tempo) e anche riguardo ad alcune Lifepo4, ma solamente quelle con "celle economiche di scarsa qualità".
Quindi, tranquillo, le tenergy Lifepo4 (quelle verdi o anche le gialle, ossia le prime prodotte dalla tenergy) sono chimicamente sicure, anche perchè le celle tenergy non sono certo delle Lifepo4 di dubbia provenienza e qualità come molte no brand che circolano in rete

 

[gorman]

Ciao ufo, check the main battery topic in the ECF library. It specifically mentions Tenergy LiFePo4.

Controlla il thread nella library, fa riferimento esplicito alle Tenergy LiFePo4. Ora sono su Tapatalk, se no te lo likerei.

Edit: back at the desktop.

The relevant post: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

Note: we no longer recommend Li-FePo4 batteries because people will not listen to our warnings that there are two grades of these cells, and the low-quality grade (such as Tenergy) MUST NOT be used in mods

High-quality Li-FePo4 can also be used - BUT DO NOT USE LOW-QUALITY CELLS SUCH AS TENERGY - these have a very low C rating of typically 1C. A 'real' Li-FePo4 cell has a rating of 5C to 10C. [see Note 1].

- Some Li-FePo4 cells have an extremely low discharge rate of less than 1C (for example Tenergy), so it would be advisable to check the discharge rating before purchase.
DON'T BUY these poor-quality Li-FePo4 cells, as apart from anything else they look to have a performance even lower than small Li-ion cells.


UPDATE 2012-01-21 - The most serious mod battery explosion ever reported has taken place. It involved a pair of Tenergy Li-FePo4 cells in series. We have warned about these cells for at least a year.
DO NOT IGNORE ECF BATTERY WARNINGS

It seems clear enough, unfortunately.

Luckily for us Reo users: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-mods-update-february-2012-a.html#post5327522

Box mods are not implicated. Apart from electrical factors such as a plastic or wood body, there is the likelihood that gas will escape from a squonk hole, and/or the lid/door will simply blow off at the first outgas stage before the violent second-stage outgas.