Lorillard purchases Blu E-Cigs

[Harplayr]

......
Go to the blu Facebook page and you'll see how many fans they have. It's not a bad device compared to a lot of other minis out there and there are thousands of vapers who are perfectly happy with it. Only the ones who aren't come to forums like ECF and complain. But there are a lot of people who don't like some of the most popular non-mini devices too - like the eGo - and move into mods. ECF discussions do not reflect the entire vaping community at all - just a portion of it.

I agree.

This forum is frequented by enthusiasts. There are many people out there that are quite pleased with their Blu. Most likely don’t know about the better options out there, and really don’t care. Their Blu works just fine, and has helped them get off analogs.

I for one got introduced into the world of Vaping by purchasing a Blu starter kit. After over 35 years of puffing analogs, it was the first thing that helped me quit. So I’ve got a soft spot for Blu.

Since then I’ve been here on the forum learning from the great people here about how much better vaping can be and have been using a better PV and plan to experiment more, but when I go out I still keep an “emergency Blu” in my pocket just in case my PV goes dead or I don’t want to be so conspicuous. While it is no longer my go-to device…it still has its use.

 

[Petrodus]

OK this really is the DEATH of the Ecig business so close shop NOW !

I was just joking ...
Actually ... not entirely because I don't want to see the end of an era.
I'm really not craving a Blu right now

 

[Penner]

Way back when, in my young and stupid years, I started smoking. That was my choice and I accept responsibility. But I will be damned if I will ever buy a Big Tobacco product again. not after the additives and BT's flagrant, callous disregard to my health just to keep me hooked to cigarettes.

I won't get fooled again.

and this:

I don't know, this really bothers me. We all know BT has spent countless hours of research and ungodly amounts of money to make their products as addictive as possible. I have no doubt that they won't stoop that low now, and then were back to square one again (IMHO) They'd be enslaving people to their all new product. I believe that vaping is much safer than smoking but I don't want them dipping their dirty corrupt fingers in my juice and messing with my brain chemistry again. I just feel like we'd be stepping backwards and lose some of the benefits we've all gained by getting away from them *sigh*

I agree with this. another thing that bothers me, is that Lorillard/ Blu will become juice suppliers to small ecig companies.

Then these small ecig companies will evade/ ignore/ not tell you the source of their juice. This already happens here on ECF. I've asked if a certain ingredient (& so have others) like PG is in a juice (some people are allergic), & get no response/ answer from the small ecig juice company.

 

[BuzzKill]

I was just joking ...
Actually ... not entirely because I don't want to see the end of an era.
I'm really not craving a Blu right now

Ditto !! LOL!

 

[Myk]

I agree with this. another thing that bothers me, is that Lorillard/ Blu will become juice suppliers to small ecig companies.

Then these small ecig companies will evade/ ignore/ not tell you the source of their juice. This already happens here on ECF. I've asked if a certain ingredient (& so have others) like PG is in a juice (some people are allergic), & get no response/ answer from the small ecig juice company.

Why are people insisting on starting unfounded rumors?
Everyone involved has said NOTHING is changing. This is no different than Phillip Morris owning Kraft foods. Do you avoid Kraft because it's "big tobacco"?

I'm really curious if so many are willing to believe what the antis have told you about big tobacco why aren't you believing what they've told you about e-cigs?

 

[IronHorse]

I agree.

This forum is frequented by enthusiasts. There are many people out there that are quite pleased with their Blu. Most likely don’t know about the better options out there, and really don’t care. Their Blu works just fine, and has helped them get off analogs.

I for one got introduced into the world of Vaping by purchasing a Blu starter kit. After over 35 years of puffing analogs, it was the first thing that helped me quit. So I’ve got a soft spot for Blu.

Since then I’ve been here on the forum learning from the great people here about how much better vaping can be and have been using a better PV and plan to experiment more, but when I go out I still keep an “emergency Blu” in my pocket just in case my PV goes dead or I don’t want to be so conspicuous. While it is no longer my go-to device…it still has its use.

I started with Blu also..and always have my pack nearby..but have upgraded to a bigger and better PV also...your post could have been written by me..LOL.

 

[Creniker]

The antis are who are presently trying to kill us so why believe the propaganda they've put out about BT? The antis happily rush suicide pills through being allowed. They lie and tell us e-cigs are anti-freeze. They tell us to avoid the e-cigs and take the suicide pills. They tells us cigarettes have too many chemicals then pass a law to add another chemical with FSC. They tell us e-cigs look like smoking therefore we have to go outside and inhale the second hand smoke they tell us is deadly. They tell us the flavors that keep us off cigarettes are for kids and try to get them banned so we go back to tobacco.

If it's not everyone, the majority of people who've smoked today knew it wasn't good for them before they started. Even those who heard that it was good for them should've known better, it's inhaling smoke. How can you blame BT for something you did to yourself?

If there is actually anyone on our side it's going to be tobacco. They are the ones who will put up the money to provide the testing to silence the antis. For them to do that will require some profit.

I know this is a serious discussion but hopefully this will get a laugh or two, and your post reminded me of it.

Hidey Lidey Song - YouTube

 

[rothenbj]

Well...it could go either way, but I'm hoping not. There is the risk that Lorillard will try to negotiate with the FDA (like Philip Morris did with the FSPTCA), resulting in regulations that could essentially wipe out anything other than a blu-style device, pre-filled cartos and tobacco flavors and acquiesce sin taxes and public use bans. I can guess that CASAA would NOT support that! I hope they truly understand how vapers are a different breed - we won't go quietly into the night like we did as smokers. Lorillard needs to understand that they have a really great market with the starter vapers and don't need to destroy the cottage companies that specialize in the upgrade devices and boutique liquids. They will see a lot of consumer backlash if they attempt to move against those types of products and I will be out front leading the charge if I have to!

I can't imagine the hardware not being available regardless of what happens down the road. The biggest issue right now is the relative safety of the batteries, In time that will change as battery safety improves and/or the more powerful products will evolve into a product like the ego. I could see a product like the lavatube becoming two piece rather than a single tube with a proprietary battery/charging component. The biggest fear for most would be the nicotine liquids and I can fully appreciate that concern.

I personally am happy I found snus to calm the savage beast. I could easily live without vaping at all, but I really enjoy the experience. Zero nic liquid works for me with the right flavors, but I'd hate to see our current liquids disappear. My take on the Blu situation is favorable. Lorillard has every reason to devote their resources to developing a product that will appease the average smoker. Anything to keep their current customer base purchasing their products will be good. We have to remember that the average smoker isn't interested in the larger APVs. Over time BT may very well move to larger units to address that market segment.

This was only the first announcement. Don't expect PM and RJR to sit on the sidelines. This has got to be disturbing news for BP and the ?non-profit?"health" associations. The competition for the smoker dollars has just gotten more intense.

 

[newq]

I think this goes way beyond anything we have yet to see in the vaping world.

I think that because the tobacco giants are already regulated to the hilt that there are a ton of possibilities here.

First and foremost , it puts companies Like RJR PM and lorrilard into a position where they can and will push for regulation of the devices and juice. They would be willing to sink a multimillion dollar purchase for the net gain of their smokers back any way they can.

We must have all noticed the number of E-cigs popping up in convenience stores by now. With a cigarette giant crawling into bed with a E-cig company you have to question the motive behind the move. The idea may be to recoup lost revenue due to e-cig vapers however I think the move may be much darker and more destructive.

Lets play marketing for a giant company such as Lorrilard. First and foremost the eye is always on the consumer and trending. With most previous smoking cessation products , they were ineffective and shown to have no real market share. With vaping it is an alternative which could go on indefinately as there is no prescribed or structured path for cessation. This poses a threat to market share and is embroiled in governmental and regulatory struggles at the present time. What would be the best possible way to corner market share and or force users to return to traditional tobacco?

Simply put , politics and strive for governmental regulation would push all but the most hardy competitors out of the market. Using their product to establish and set guidelines and precedents from the standpoint of a vendor. As a vendor aligned with tobacco , it would become percieved even more so than currently to be a tobacco product. As such and with the full participation and encouragement of a tobacco giant, they could push for more regulatory until the government had no choice but to react. Shove all the competition out of the way as they cannot fiscally comply to the demands of the regulation and testing requirements. For those who remain drive up costs and the drive down the profitability and finally drive the death blow by forcing the need for further regulation to diminish the effectiveness of the product itself until all but die hard vapers remain. Either way wether you drive the competitors out or drive the consumer to seek alternative means to deal with their addiction Lorrilard will have you covered every step of the way. No matter the outcome they will win.

 

[kristin]

Except Lorillard just reported losses, the cigarette market has been in decline (and e-cigarettes are just a tiny part of that decline) and many tobacco companies have already been shifting their focus on smoke-free products for the past few years anyhow. All signs point to Lorillard counting on the e-cig division making them money. Over-regulation and killing demand from potential and existing consumers would be counter-productive (the whole appeal of e-cigarettes is their effectiveness and their affordability) and therefore a lose-lose situation. Plus, there's always orders from overseas that would be very difficult to stop.

You also forget that CASAA isn't going to sit by and watch something like that happen.

 

[Myk]

Why would any company push for the same regulations that are running them out of business?
Go back to the hey day of no regulation or bring modern day over-regulation into a last gasp attempt to make some money?

The small guy is not a threat.
BT has the labs to make nicotine cheap, they could be selling their product through those small time juice mixers.
They have advertising dollars. And they could beat anyone's prices with their bulk discounts and inhouse production.
They could even do like the beer majors and create "micro brews" that they own and run.

If I'm playing marketing for a big company I'm using my lawyers to keep the regulation away.

 

[EJH]

Well, after thinking about it and putting my personal disdain for Big Tobacco aside, Lorillard's acquisition of Blu probably is (or will be) a good thing. Wall Street seem to agree: Lorillard's stock price jumped 4% today, almost hitting their 52-week high.

While the number of American smokers has more or less held steady since 2005, afters decades of decline, it seems intuitively obvious to me that cigarette use in the U.S. will eventually continue its downward trend. With taxes that climb higher and higher, more stringent bans popping up and other factors, the size of the overall tobacco market will shrink. The tobacco corporations must seek an alternative product to maintain or grow their market share. The purchase of Blu is the first step of this process and certainly won't be the last.

What does the future hold for e-cigs? I don't know. I guess it depends on which titan wins the battle for the government's favor, Big Pharma or Big Tobacco.

At least PV users now have a rich and powerful interest (BT) that will fight to keep vaping legal, or so I hope.

 

[Stubby]

While the number of American smokers has more or less held steady since 2005, afters decades of decline, it seems intuitively obvious to me that cigarette use in the U.S. will eventually continue its downward trend. With taxes that climb higher and higher, more stringent bans popping up and other factors, the size of the overall tobacco market will shrink. The tobacco corporations must seek an alternative product to maintain or grow their market share. The purchase of Blu is the first step of this process and certainly won't be the last.

Tobacco use is not really going down, but it is changing. Smokeless tobacco use has been increasing at a good pace of about 7% annualy for a number of years. This despite all the fear mongering and lies from the ANTZ. Add to that e-cigs and the trend is clear that people are moving away from cigarettes, but not tobacco (I consider e-cigs a tobacco product). BT is fully aware of the trend. Both RJR and PM have a large interest in smokeless tobacco and now the other big company has an interest in e-cigs.

At this point the last thing BT wants to do is kill the e-cig. It's very likely a good part of the future of tobacco use and they know it. I have a lot more fear of the FDA trying to restrict and kill e-cigs then BT. How much they are going to try and manipulate the market is another question, but only time will tell where that goes.

 

[rothenbj]

Plus BT now has millions invested to back up opposition to any attempted draconian regulation/promulgation.

 

[Petrodus]

E-cigs and BT make strange bedfellows

Kind of a strange feeling knowing Lorillard (BT) is
also monitoring e-cigs in the news including proposed
bans that include e-cigarettes.

We know more tobacco companies will "jump in" but
just don't know when and where.

Mixed feelings, because on one hand BT will support
and promote e-cigarettes. However, on the other hand
will limit the wide range of choices we enjoy today.

 

[sqirl1]

Well...it could go either way, but I'm hoping not. There is the risk that Lorillard will try to negotiate with the FDA (like Philip Morris did with the FSPTCA), resulting in regulations that could essentially wipe out anything other than a blu-style device, pre-filled cartos and tobacco flavors and acquiesce sin taxes and public use bans. I can guess that CASAA would NOT support that! I hope they truly understand how vapers are a different breed - we won't go quietly into the night like we did as smokers. Lorillard needs to understand that they have a really great market with the starter vapers and don't need to destroy the cottage companies that specialize in the upgrade devices and boutique liquids. They will see a lot of consumer backlash if they attempt to move against those types of products and I will be out front leading the charge if I have to!

you know what? everything you say just makes sense. it's good to have people like you and Elaine in charge of all this : D and you know what? Since Lorillard makes Newports, and was worried about menthols being banned maybe they'll be a little more sympathetic with flavors, I mean before FSPTCA were there any peppermint flavored newports or anything like that?

 

[Petrodus]

Knowledge is Power

I would assume Lorillard is confident of their business plan.
However, they would have their people monitoring the major
e-cig Internet discussions looking for loop-holds not previously
closed and or for ideas and suggestions of interest.

Skim the cream that rises to the surface

 

[RockinRay]

Knowledge is Power

I would assume Lorillard is confident of their business plan.
However, they would have their people monitoring the major
e-cig Internet discussions looking for loop-holds not previously
closed and or for ideas and suggestions of interest.

Skim the cream that rises to the surface

+1 - I am most sure they are and have been here for quite a while now.

 

[Vocalek]

while there is alot of sense made about the possible positives, I just don't see a BT company changing its shady business practices regarding making their products SUPER addictive and deadly. Thats just me, only time will tell, but right now, I think I won't be recommending blu cigarettes to anyone ( not that I ever have, they always seemed to mainstream anyway ).

Aren't you forgetting one tiny detail? The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (aka Tobacco Act) gave the FDA authority to regulate cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products (chewing tobacco, snuff, snus).

The FDA has already asked tobacco companies to provide a list of all the chemicals in their cigarettes. If any tobacco company is manipulating chemicals to make tobacco cigarettes more addictive, that won't continue for long. In fact, one of the provisions of the Tobacco Act urges the FDA to come up with ways to make cigarettes less addictive. One way would be to lower the permissible nicotine levels.

So wouldn't it be kind of stupid for a tobacco company to play around with e-cigarettes to make them "more addictive"? The FDA has announced its intention to bring other tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, under the regulatory umbrella of the Tobacco Act. So the offending tobacco company will be smacked down by the FDA, and the whole thing will be very bad PR for the company.

 

[sqirl1]

Aren't you forgetting one tiny detail? The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (aka Tobacco Act) gave the FDA authority to regulate cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products (chewing tobacco, snuff, snus).

The FDA has already asked tobacco companies to provide a list of all the chemicals in their cigarettes. If any tobacco company is manipulating chemicals to make tobacco cigarettes more addictive, that won't continue for long. In fact, one of the provisions of the Tobacco Act urges the FDA to come up with ways to make cigarettes less addictive. One way would be to lower the permissible nicotine levels.

So wouldn't it be kind of stupid for a tobacco company to play around with e-cigarettes to make them "more addictive"? The FDA has announced its intention to bring other tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, under the regulatory umbrella of the Tobacco Act. So the offending tobacco company will be smacked down by the FDA, and the whole thing will be very bad PR for the company.

yeah what a lot of people seem to forget is that, contrary to popular belief, tobacco companies DO still think about PR. of course the ANTZ don't want you to think that, they just want you to think that all tobacco companies just kill people and don't care. Which may be true to an extent, but look at Monsanto, I think those guys are far, FAR worse than any tobacco company has ever been. Same with the food industry, those "sugar is sugar and high fructose corn syrup is no different" commercials you see? those are just as bad as Phillip Morris denying smoking causing cancer, folks. not saying big tobacco is benign by any means, but they're no worse than big food or big agriculture or big pharma.