Michigan Gov Whitmer releases vaping ban rules...

[sofarsogood]

Whitmer loves attention I know she is thrilled to be in national headlines and stories. She wasn't an attorney general, the guy she ran against for governor was, Bill Schuette. She was Ingham county prosecutor for 6 months.

Meaning she is an attorney. My best understanding of the rules, so far, is that adult Michigan residents can buy whatever thay want from out-of-state, so long as it remains for personal use. Somebody please correct me if I've got that wrong. So far my impression is the same is true in NY.

It would be nice to believe the elected officials would settle for flavored pre-mix not appearing on store shelves. They are so convinced that flavors are the deciding factor for kids. I doubt it. I've said over and over, I wish ecigs had been around when I was a kid.

 

[BreSha6869]

Meaning she is an attorney. My best understanding of the rules, so far, is that adult Michigan residents can buy whatever thay want from out-of-state, so long as it remains for personal use. Somebody please correct me if I've got that wrong. So far my impression is the same is true in NY.

It would be nice to believe the elected officials would settle for flavored pre-mix not appearing on store shelves. They are so convinced that flavors are the deciding factor for kids. I doubt it. I've said over and over, I wish ecigs had been around when I was a kid.

So you can order all of the ejuice you want online out of state but can’t buy from in-State B&M’s? Makes sense.

Most B&Ms are petrified of getting caught serving minors and pretty strict about refusing service to minors these days, so why are they the problem?

 

[zoiDman]

... My best understanding of the rules, so far, is that adult Michigan residents can buy whatever thay want from out-of-state, so long as it remains for personal use. Somebody please correct me if I've got that wrong. ...

I'm sure the Courts are going to be Involved in this (can't think of Much these days that they aren't). But Rule #5 seems to put a Kibosh on Online Buying from Out-of-State Sellers. At least in Gretchen's opinion.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/...-_signed_by_Gov-Director_9.18.19_666139_7.pdf

 

[sofarsogood]

I'm sure the Courts are going to be Involved in this (can't think of Much these days that they aren't). But Rule #5 seems to put a Kibosh on Online Buying from Out-of-State Sellers. At least in Gretchen's opinion.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/...-_signed_by_Gov-Director_9.18.19_666139_7.pdf

Does rule 5 apply to everybody or only resellers?

What would it take to discourage most of the kids? If they had to mix? May be that would be enough. There must be some kids who need ecigs to keep off cigs. I also suspect there are people, including kids, for whom nic is medicinal. I wonder how much smoking would be reduced if pre-rolled cigarettes were prohibited. Everybody would have to roll their own.

 

[stols001]

I can tell you, I'm not entirely sure what the rule does or does not mean, but most out of state vape shops (unless they are intentionally suiciding their business in the hopes of a pro-vaping lawsuit) are not going to be shipping stuff to the Land of the great Vapes, I mean Lakes.

Anana

 

[zoiDman]

Does rule 5 apply to everybody or only resellers?

What would it take to discourage most of the kids? If they had to mix? May be that would be enough. There must be some kids who need ecigs to keep off cigs. I also suspect there are people, including kids, for whom nic is medicinal. I wonder how much smoking would be reduced if pre-rolled cigarettes were prohibited. Everybody would have to roll their own.

The Way I read Rule #5, it would Apply to Everyone.

If it Didn't, then as BreSha6869 pointed out, it Wouldn't make much sense. And it Wouldn't be much of a Ban.

It'd kinda be like putting a Screen Door on your house to keep Files Out. While having all your Windows Open.

 

[AttyPops]

Does rule 5 apply to everybody or only resellers?

It's confusing.

See post #25, for my take. No need to retype it. There's more down in posts 35, 36, and 52. Definitely not clear to us, and also probably questionable as to jurisdiction unless she's busting customers that receive such.

What would it take to discourage most of the kids? If they had to mix? May be that would be enough. There must be some kids who need ecigs to keep off cigs. I also suspect there are people, including kids, for whom nic is medicinal. I wonder how much smoking would be reduced if pre-rolled cigarettes were prohibited. Everybody would have to roll their own.

The kiddies aren't smoking, they're vaping.

So BT comes along, and locks the market with tobacco flavors and PITA less effective devices (like heat-not-burn tastes like smoking, needs cleaning, devices.) New adoption among teens drops. Smokers stuck with it. cigs go bye-bye in a decade, or are prescription only. BT owns the market, destroys vaping like we know it today, with at best prefilled pods and maybe internal chips, high costs, crappy taste, and no online sales.

Spitballing.

 

[sofarsogood]

The restricted items seems to be any flavored eliquid--with a "characterizing flavor" other than tobacco. That seems like it's not intended to apply to unflavored liquid with nicotine. That would seem to leave the door open to DIY for personal use.

 

[AttyPops]

The restricted items seems to be any flavored eliquid--with a "characterizing flavor" other than tobacco. That seems like it's not intended to apply to unflavored liquid with nicotine. That would seem to leave the door open to DIY for personal use.

Until they outlaw all that in the next step of the process, and lock us all into proprietary pod systems with limited use, and no online sales.

:/

 

[zoiDman]

... Definitely not clear to us, and also probably questionable as to jurisdiction unless she's busting customers that receive such.

...

I think it would be the Other Way around. Prosecuting Sellers.

But I'm not an Interstate Commerce Lawyer.

 

[AttyPops]

I think it would be the Other Way around. Prosecuting Sellers.

But I'm not an Interstate Commerce Lawyer.

Maybe, IDK. The wording sucks. Regardless, that makes even less sense, but none of this make sense from the surface-story, so ........

Hell, I'm in full tin-foil-hat-mode at this point just to try to make some rational sense of all this.
Who the heck knows.

 

[sofarsogood]

Until they outlaw all that in the next step of the process, and lock us all into proprietary pod systems with limited use, and no online sales.

:/

May be it will turn out they're really only making an issue of the kids. Time will tell. But why worry? Put some nic in the freezer and a few extra mods and atomizers in the vape drawer and relax.

 

[The Rebel]

Great part about it is Michigan legislators just voted a few months ago to allow MJ infused edibles which includes cookies, brownies, soda, and gummies. Which are available in a variety of different FLAVORS. I can't make this stuff up...

 

[gpjoe]

Just saw a shop owner on the local news. He explained that he has 14 days to try and sell his entire inventory, after which time it immediately becomes a crime to own. The state has provided zero guidance on how to legally dispose of anything left on the 15th day.

Shameful.

 

[Horselady154]

Until they outlaw all that in the next step of the process, and lock us all into proprietary pod systems with limited use, and no online sales.

:/

Speak for yourself, Pops. They aren't locking me into anything!!

 

[AttyPops]

Great part about it is Michigan legislators just voted a few months ago to allow MJ infused edibles which includes cookies, brownies, soda, and gummies. Which are available in a variety of different FLAVORS. I can't make this stuff up...

That's because it's not actually about flavors, per se. It's about market control, youth addiction, and eliminating cigarettes. And deterrents.

 

[sofarsogood]

May be a judge will halt this process. In the mean time I'm not seeing evidence of interference with online purchases. If the concern is to preserve your own ability to vape into the future it's prudent to put some nic in the freezer. That has been true for 10 years.

 

[AmazingDavid]

Everyone here has so much passion in their posts, and so much common sense being illustrated---PLEASE contact your Representatives! None of these posts are going to help our cause as we are just preaching to the choir here. Your elected Representatives aka Lawmakers are the ones who need to hear your voices NOW. The gun lobby has successfully protected their product against prohibitive legislation for decades because of loud, outspoken voices of dissent raining down upon elected representatives and we need to emulate their model.

One phone call to your elected representative equals 100 written letters and 100,000 complaining posts written online that no one but sympathetic eyes and ears sees and hears. CALL your rep and do it today. Do it tomorrow and the next day too. Get active if you care about this issue. Use the process that we are lucky to have in this country. Utilize it or LOSE it.

(202) 224-3121 Capitol Switchboard in Washington D.C. A live person answers. Give your zip code to be connected to your Rep's office instantly. An intern will answer. Talk to them. Be polite and clear. Tell them you are a constituent and tell them exactly how you feel. Tell them why this legislation and/or pending legislation is foolish, harmful, shortsighted, and political cowardice.

Further, tell them if you voted for your rep or not. Tell them how this will affect your support of this rep in the future. Tell them if this will affect your support for a primary challenger in the future. That will get their attention, I promise. One phone call=100 letters. One phone call means you care enough about this issue to take time out of your day to contact them and make your voice heard.

Get active or deal with the decisions made for you. We are all in this together so get active.

 

[BreSha6869]

Speak for yourself, Pops. They aren't locking me into anything!!

Hey there!

I am in the same boat in any case.

I used to be a regular on ECF for a few years but haven’t been on often in a couple of years. Why? I have enough nic in the freezer for my wife and I for likely the rest of our lives, enough mods and tanks to last decades and PG/VG/flavours aren’t going anywhere. We are set and it didn’t cost a ton of $$$.

I only feel bad for people that will refuse to make their own juice or are using flavoured closed pod systems currently and will go back to smokes, but there is no excuse. A lifetime supply of nic is likely less than many people’s recent panic orders of ejuice (which will go bad within a year or two anyways).

 

[Eskie]

Everyone here has so much passion in their posts, and so much common sense being illustrated---PLEASE contact your Representatives! None of these posts are going to help our cause as we are just preaching to the choir here. Your elected Representatives aka Lawmakers are the ones who need to hear your voices NOW. The gun lobby has successfully protected their product against prohibitive legislation for decades because of loud, outspoken voices of dissent raining down upon elected representatives and we need to emulate their model.

One phone call to your elected representative equals 100 written letters and 100,000 complaining posts written online that no one but sympathetic eyes and ears sees and hears. CALL your rep and do it today. Do it tomorrow and the next day too. Get active if you care about this issue. Use the process that we are lucky to have in this country. Utilize it or LOSE it.

(202) 224-3121 Capitol Switchboard in Washington D.C. A live person answers. Give your zip code to be connected to your Rep's office instantly. An intern will answer. Talk to them. Be polite and clear. Tell them you are a constituent and tell them exactly how you feel. Tell them why this legislation and/or pending legislation is foolish, harmful, shortsighted, and political cowardice.

Further, tell them if you voted for your rep or not. Tell them how this will affect your support of this rep in the future. Tell them if this will affect your support for a primary challenger in the future. That will get their attention, I promise. One phone call=100 letters. One phone call means you care enough about this issue to take time out of your day to contact them and make your voice heard.

Get active or deal with the decisions made for you. We are all in this together so get active.

I think you'll find that most here have and are doing so.

Gun owners and the NRA have a 2nd Amendment to back them up. Vaping isn't in the Constitution.