my opinion: heavy users are downfall for the rest

[TwoTimes]

Lets play nice folks, we're not our worst enemies and it's best to remember that especially on a forum as big as this one...

 

[TomGeorge]

Within a few years, vapers will walk the streets unconspicuously and threads like this will remain a nostalgic soft spot to us all.

"Thats the world I want to live in"

 

[JayQC]

I have read your posts. No-one likes hate but somehow you encourage discord.

My train of thought is incisive, my wording is serrated.

 

[e-pipeman]

As vapers we need to encourage people to understand why we do this. It's because it works.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ore-effective-than-nrt-smoking-cessation.html

Top scientists warn WHO not to stub out e-cigarettes

Arguing about the rights that people have to breathe clean air is interesting but out of date by about 100 years. The industrial revolution, nuclear testing and the internal combustion engine (together with aviation and diesel) mean that clean air couldn't be a right even if we could legislate for it. Cleaner air is possible - and not burning tobacco will help with that.

We should be nice to each other when we are arguing for the right to vape. When people argue for the right to complain about vaping my hackles rise. You should see my hackles!

 

[e-pipeman]

My train of thought is incisive, my wording is serrated.

Wow! If that were true we'd all be standing in a pool of blood (which is what you seem to want - why?)

Your train of thought is illogical and your "wording" is a blunt tool.

Never mind - vaping is the point of this forum, and most of us do that.

What do you vape? Device, fave liquid? I'd love to know.

We have to encourage the acceptance of vaping, not dance on the head of a pin about "rights".

 

[JayQC]

Arguing about the rights that people have to breathe clean air is interesting but out of date by about 100 years. The industrial revolution, nuclear testing and the internal combustion engine (together with aviation and diesel) mean that clean air couldn't be a right even if we could legislate for it.

Well yeah, can't argue with that.

 

[Weizenheimer]

No one will be the downfall of my vaping.

 

[Kahuna Cowboy]

I've never yet seen any such instances where I live, and your examples smack of hyperbole to me. Seems like you are on the same team as the OP here, and not on our side at all.

Damn. I've been outed! Can't get one past you!

I've only been vaping since 2008, a member here since 2009. Have you considered a career in investigations there Sherlock?

What you call hyperbole I call perfect examples I've personally witnessed, to the point the person is asked to cease vaping or worse yet leave the establishment. If you require proof, go look at the Senate debate in New York City to add e-cigs to the clean air act that passed, better yet, here's some pics from that debate.



As as I said, common sense. These people opted to make a spectacle of themselves to display their rights in the gallery of the Senate floor. Well those rights got taken away, and e-cigs are now as prohibited from indoor use as a tobacco cigarette in NYC. In fact one of the opposition who testified used this to her favor and got up and complained how her eyes were irritated and she couldn't breathe with all the vapor looming in the air.

Just because you personally have never seen such behavior, that does not mean it has not happened, and before you go throwing out allegations, you better have some facts in your corner.

 

[Zealous]

I've never yet seen any such instances where I live, and your examples smack of hyperbole to me. Seems like you are on the same team as the OP here, and not on our side at all.

I'm sorry but I just have to ask, who's side is "our" side? I'm of the opinion that anyone vaping is on the same side & we are all facing the same problem where vaping is concerned.

I don't think the OP is entirely wrong in that inconsiderate vapers will certainly have an affect on people's opinions of vaping. But this is not the only factor that will influence the future of vaping. BT & BP certainly have power & influence over it too.

HST, I don't see the usefulness in trying to discredit this poster's examples simply because you have not experienced them. I have never experienced them either but that doesn't mean the poster didn't. I have also never had anyone comment on my public vaping practices & you seem to have had a ridiculous number of negative vaping situations. Should I believe, based on your rationale, that since I've not experienced these things your examples must be hyperbole?

Not trying to be argumentative here. But it's unreasonable to expect people to accept your testimonial experiences while not accepting someone else's.

 

[Anjaffm]

As to Big Pharma and their opposition to e-cigs - The Times (London) has just published an article exposing that Big Pharma is actively lobbying against e-cigs. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...a-lobbying-against-electronic-cigarettes.html
(Yes, many of us know that. But an article in The Times is a nice thing )

And as to "the right to breathe clean air" - what clean air, please? The air that we breathe every day? See here, then:
World Health Organization: Outdoor Air Pollution Causes Cancer

E-cigarettes do not cause cancer. As opposed to the air that we breathe every day. Every single day.
It is always good to see things in perspective.

 

[e-pipeman]

As to Big Pharma and their opposition to e-cigs - The Times (London) has just published an article exposing that Big Pharma is actively lobbying against e-cigs. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...a-lobbying-against-electronic-cigarettes.html
(Yes, many of us know that. But an article in The Times is a nice thing )

And as to "the right to breathe clean air" - what clean air, please? The air that we breathe every day? See here, then:
World Health Organization: Outdoor Air Pollution Causes Cancer

E-cigarettes do not cause cancer. As opposed to the air that we breathe every day. Every single day.
It is always good to see things in perspective.

This has to be the best post in this thread.

 

[soba1]

As to Big Pharma and their opposition to e-cigs - The Times (London) has just published an article exposing that Big Pharma is actively lobbying against e-cigs. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...a-lobbying-against-electronic-cigarettes.html
(Yes, many of us know that. But an article in The Times is a nice thing )

And as to "the right to breathe clean air" - what clean air, please? The air that we breathe every day? See here, then:
World Health Organization: Outdoor Air Pollution Causes Cancer

E-cigarettes do not cause cancer. As opposed to the air that we breathe every day. Every single day.
It is always good to see things in perspective.

May I expound, vape as much as u like, but always use vape ettiquite.
When in doubt stealth=vape and hold.

 

[EleanorR]

The point I'm trying to make is that you don't understand the real issue here.


It's not Big Tobacco behind all of the ban attempts.

First and foremost it is and always has been Big Pharma from the start.
And the ones pushing for all these vaping bans are their national and local minions, and their government pawns.

There are two huge reasons why the ALA, ACS, Legacy Foundation, CTFK, and ASH all hate electronic cigarettes...
1) Big Pharma pays them handsomely to do so
2) If everyone quit smoking they would all lose their jobs

And it is precisely the organizations like those above that are pushing these vaping ban legislation initiatives across the country.
And it is precisely the organizations like those listed above that are seen by the media as authorities even as they push their lies to feed the public.

If you don't know all of this then you haven't been around long enough.

Just because it bears repeating -- and because so many newer vapers seem to be unaware of this nasty situation.

My train of thought is incisive, my wording is serrated.

Oh my, what a hyper-inflated opinion you have of yourself!

Run along now, I believe I hear Pru calling you to dinner . . .

 

[Anjaffm]

. These people opted to make a spectacle of themselves to display their rights in the gallery of the Senate floor. Well those rights got taken away, and e-cigs are now as prohibited from indoor use as a tobacco cigarette in NYC.

As if that had made any difference.

In fact one of the opposition who testified used this to her favor and got up and complained how her eyes were irritated and she couldn't breathe with all the vapor looming in the air.

Source of that "complaint": DKFZ (German cancer research institute), Dr. Martina Pötschke-Langer, WHO Staff, Germany, December 2011.

Her little "anecdote" - told initially as a "scientific experiment" until she was pressed into admitting she made it all up - was faithfully "reported" in the media in Germany and then, some time later, picked up internationally.

Do tell us something that we do not know, please.

 

[e-pipeman]

May I expound, vape as much as u like, but always use vape ettiquite.
When in doubt stealth=vape and hold.

What does this have to do with the post you quoted?

Of course you can expound, that's what a forum's for.

If you're arguing for being a polite vaper then I think no-one's going to argue with that.

 

[Anjaffm]

May I expound, vape as much as u like, but always use vape ettiquite.
When in doubt stealth=vape and hold.

Oh, I do use vape etiquette. Of course. It is the nice thing to do.

I do not quite understand, however, what that has to do with my posting that you quoted. Please explain.

 

[granolaboy]

As to Big Pharma and their opposition to e-cigs - The Times (London) has just published an article exposing that Big Pharma is actively lobbying against e-cigs. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...a-lobbying-against-electronic-cigarettes.html
(Yes, many of us know that. But an article in The Times is a nice thing )

And as to "the right to breathe clean air" - what clean air, please? The air that we breathe every day? See here, then:
World Health Organization: Outdoor Air Pollution Causes Cancer

E-cigarettes do not cause cancer. As opposed to the air that we breathe every day. Every single day.
It is always good to see things in perspective.

This. Fantastic article!

 

[zapped]

#1 ok for the record we are still ignorant to vaping on the effects on health from diacetyl, acetoin, and acetyl propionyl.
#2 This may have a "POTENTIAL second handsmoke effect" - Unknown (may be cancerous may be perfectly fine)
#3 The visual of "smoke" produced by cloud chasers may indeed be more frightening to the ignorance of those that dont know of ecigs
#4 Even if #3 is correct i would never want to infringe upon the rights of a fellow vaper or participate in shaming him for vaping
#5 If #1&2 are correct i am "A ok" with being shipped away to the smokers section why? because i cant and wont willingly and knowingly cause harm to others(of course studies would have to be done)
#6 I say cloud chasers may be adding a problem but oh well because i think the freedom is much more important educating the ignorant is the way to go not demonizing fellow vapers

Correction: YOU are still very much ignorant to the effects of vaping health. For this reason and many others I suggest that vapers new and old alike, take at the very least a couple hours to view the CASAA website,paying special attention to the FAQs and studies that have been done in the last several years.

Many of the myths you just spouted as fact are debunked rather thoroughly there in exhaustive studies conducted by teams of professionals.

#s 1 and 2 are both false.

For those reading this exchange and confused over a fellow vaper making statements that are patently false, Id pay more attention to doctors, scientists and veteran vapers than a misinformed noob with only cursory knowledge of vaping and a miniscule contribution to these forums at best.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, Its nothing personal.......I have little patience for those spreading misinformation and fear in regards to e-cigs.

I have even less when those who are doing so claim to be on the same side as the rest of us.

 

[ardvaark]

Yea, I'm going to go ahead and pipe in because I have a stake in this. First off, I'm $%#@! ...... that vapers draw attention to themselves with the clouds. I am, and have always been a stealth vaper by nature. Never saw a reason to want to draw attention to myself or be questioned about what I was doing. Its no ones business, I'll do it far away enough from you that A) you will not see any vapor and 2) IF, there is a second hand factor to it, it will be far enough away from you to not have to worry about it at all.
I kind of stepped away from the scene here for awhile, picked up the news paper today, which I never do, and find that ecigs are being banned EVERYWHERE!!! {censored} All this with pictures of these little $#@%!'s blowing clouds everywhere. I don't know about you but I've given up a non-filter pack a day habit of over 20 years because of these little God sent devices. My wife is ever so much happier that she does not have to smell the crap on me anymore. I save obscene amounts of money. And USED to be able to vape anywhere I wanted. Well, no more!! Thanks bunches you little cloud chasing {censored}!! Mostly the ones who are not addicted to nicotine and are having a good laugh right now reading this and could care less about the rights we used to have. Thank you VERY much! I really used to like to adjust my nicotine level wherever and whenever I wanted. Now I can't. Just thanks!!
And for the fine lady below who has said they have nothing to do with the problem at hand. You are definitely at a minority there. At even a most basic level, they sure as hell are not helping our cause.

 

[Anjaffm]

Correction: YOU are still ignorant to the effects of vaping health. For this reason and many others I suggest that vapers new and old alike, take at the very least a couple hours to view the CASAA website,paying special attention to the FAQs and studies that have been done in the last several years.

Many of the myths you just spouted as fact are debunked rather thoroughly there in exhaustive studies conducted by teams of professionals.

For those reading this exchange and confused over contradictory statements, Id pay more attention to doctors, scientists and veteran vapers than a misinformed noob with only cursory knowledge of vaping and a miniscule contribution to these forums at best.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, Its nothing personal but I have little patience for those spreading misinformation and fear in regards to e-cigs.

I have even less when those who are doing so claim to be on the same side.

Amen!
Thank you very much indeed

.....

@ardvaark:

picked up the news paper today, which I never do, and find that ecigs are being banned EVERYWHERE!!!

Yes. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with the behavior of vapers. It has very much to do, however, with money:

Few dare call it bribery: OK grants, e-cigs, and another brick in the wall « Watchdog.org

This week, Small observed in an interview: “TSET funds are essentially being used to incentivize communities to pass extreme burdens on alternatives to combustible tobacco products.”

An editor of mine translated it this way: “Seems like bribery to me.”

Federal Support for Anti-Tobacco Advocacy Raises Legal Questions | Washington Free Beacon

Funding provided by federal grants appear to have supported efforts to lobby state and local governments for greater restrictions on tobacco sales and usage in violation of restrictions on the use of federal funds for political or policy advocacy.

Taxpayers money. Spent - or should I say squandered - to support the agenda of a few.

Say, I know that there is a full moon today. But what's with the accumulation of .. uhm.. uninformed people in this thread, please?