my opinion: heavy users are downfall for the rest

[quadraginta]

What does this have to do with the post you quoted?

Of course you can expound, that's what a forum's for.

If you're arguing for being a polite vaper then I think no-one's going to argue with that.

You're kidding, right?

If you're not then you haven't been reading the same thread I have.

There are people in this discussion who have explicitly argued the exact opposite of polite. That it's our duty as vapers to insist on our "right" to blow clouds of vapor around in closed spaces. For the enlightenment of the ignorant, or something. It's educational.

And disagreeing with them is "rabid". Among other things.

 

[e-pipeman]

Whatever...

 

[quadraginta]

Thank you for this insightful post. Your previous post was rude and snide.

Saying so doesn't make it true. I notice that you declined to point out exactly how it was either.

I replied directly and rudely. If you don't like that then I would refer you to the last comment I made in the post you quote from. Perhaps you should add me to your "ignore" list if this makes you uncomfortable.

You misspelled "amused". I don't use killfiles, but even if I did I wouldn't miss your posts for the world.

 

[e-pipeman]

Tum-ti-tum....

 

[quadraginta]

I wonder if it will be applied to all VG sales; since, pure VG is unflavored zero nic e-juice. That is the way ethanol, that has not been denatured, is treated in PA, even if you just want to use it as a solvent and have no intention of drinking it.

The wording of the statute is fuzzy, but I doubt it will. It seems to be aimed at intent of use, so serious vaping hobbyists will find a way around it. I know I will if I have to. There are other sources for food grade PG, VG, and flavorings. Even the nic itself.

The casual vapers are gonna get clobbered, though.

 

[DaveP]

I doubt it Dave.

Some of you know that Im involved with the Consumer Opinion Center here in Richmond Va. They are basically the research arm of Phillip Morris/Altria the maker of cigarettes like Marlboro.

They have conducted several studies and surveys lately in regards to electronic cigarettes.

In one such study that I was a part of, the researcher was absolutely clueless about anything other than cig-alikes. I had to rate her online survey and even corrected her about a survey question that asked how many cartridges I used per day.

Thats not an accurate measure of how much the average vaper uses per day.......except for the 2 percent or less who still use cig-alikes and pre-filled cartridges.

She seemed amazed that clearomizers like the CE3's she had pictured had measurement marks that showed how much eliquid was in the reservoir.

When I told her I averaged about 6ml a day of eliquid a day and that the claims of a cartridge equaling a pack of cigarettes were untrue she seemed genuinely at a loss for words and very much an amateur in regards to her knowledge of vaping in general.

Based on that conversation and from what Ive seen as a participant in numerous vaping studies conducted there I can confidently say that it appears that Altria at least is concentrating on the cig-alike market and is pretty clueless about anything beyond that.

I'll venture to say that their neophyte entry into the ecig market will grow as they realize what it takes to attract the mainstream vaper. It's not going to be a $7.99 throwaway that's designed to equal 20 cigarettes, but doesn't. They'll realize that it's the juice market that corresponds to the pack a day/carton a week purchase.

They aren't dummies.

 

[Vermonster13]

Imagine the FDA approved "additives" BT will put in their juices overtime to help ensure loyalty to their products.

 

[JayQC]

Damn. I've been outed! Can't get one past you!

I've only been vaping since 2008, a member here since 2009. Have you considered a career in investigations there Sherlock?

What you call hyperbole I call perfect examples I've personally witnessed, to the point the person is asked to cease vaping or worse yet leave the establishment. If you require proof, go look at the Senate debate in New York City to add e-cigs to the clean air act that passed, better yet, here's some pics from that debate.

View attachment 345589View attachment 345590

As as I said, common sense. These people opted to make a spectacle of themselves to display their rights in the gallery of the Senate floor. Well those rights got taken away, and e-cigs are now as prohibited from indoor use as a tobacco cigarette in NYC. In fact one of the opposition who testified used this to her favor and got up and complained how her eyes were irritated and she couldn't breathe with all the vapor looming in the air.

Just because you personally have never seen such behavior, that does not mean it has not happened, and before you go throwing out allegations, you better have some facts in your corner.

And there you go. Vaping inside the senate during a debate about e-cigs.....

Out of all the decisions that anyone could've taken that day, this wasn't one of the good ones.

 

[TomGeorge]

You're kidding, right?

If you're not then you haven't been reading the same thread I have.

There are people in this discussion who have explicitly argued the exact opposite of polite. That it's our duty as vapers to insist on our "right" to blow clouds of vapor around in closed spaces. For the enlightenment of the ignorant, or something. It's educational.

And disagreeing with them is "rabid". Among other things.

I dont think you have been reading this thread, I havent heard a single person on here say "I vape wherever I want! and if someone tells me not to, I say f you and keep doing it!" The only time someone has even talked about people being impolite vapers, are second hand experiences (ie. the news, or seeing kids doing it. and kids do a lot of dumb stuff regardless of the repercussions of their actions)

 

[JayQC]

Wow! If that were true we'd all be standing in a pool of blood (which is what you seem to want - why?)

Your train of thought is illogical and your "wording" is a blunt tool.

I had a warning drop in my inbox for less than that. My point has been made clear in this thread : Ignorance is part of life and if you are a vaper, you are willing to deal with it when you vape in public. If not, you are a liability. They are ranting about the general population's ignorance, but the non-smoking general population could give a damn about smoking and/or vaping and I can't blame them because they're not interested in the subject. It's not hard to understand. It's our choice to breathe through fog sticks, don't expect the rest to suddenly know the ins and outs of your hobby.

Vaping in public will get you looks, and being a jackass vaper in public will get you and all of us hate. You cannot expect the general population to be as knowledgeable as you about a subject that maybe 20% of the populatuion is interested in.

There is thick denial about the social implications of a product like e-cigs and the reaction of bystanders. Thick denial.

I'll requote myself a second time.

I don't expect non-smokers to know the ins-and-outs of vaping any more than I expected Tipper Gore to get Frank Zappa back in '86.

It's the denial that apart from toxicity, vaping and smoking pose the same problem to bystanders that leads me to wonder just how conscious vapers really are about their hobby.

As well as passive-aggressive lashing out to non-smokers/non-vapers by the hardline vaping police, which I find laughable and just as dangerous as vaping indoors at the senate. If my train of thought is illogical, ponder this :

I'd ask them WHY THEY CARE, and what business is it of theirs? Too many people out there have become social control freaks and I've become heartily sick of them. It's none of their business in the first place and they need to get a life.

Such insecurity and defensiveness. I don't feel attacked when I vape in public. I don't get it. I've had countless comments, but I never reacted like this or even had that thought.....why? Becauese I understand why a subject remains widely unknown when it only truly reaches out to 15-20% of the population.

It's a mentality of entitlement. I spare you the tinfoil theories and paranoïa of government agents infiltrating ECF to spoil the fun from the inside coming from her too.

I don't want insecure and paranoid vapers to self declare themselves ambassadors. They will destroy what little credibility we managed to build upon the years.

What do you vape? Device, fave liquid? I'd love to know.

I vape mostly watermelon, raspberry flavors and tank crackers in a mini protank 2 on an EVOD. Lovely go anywhere and simple setup.

 

[treehead]

listen, I get those of you who smoke big and thick vapers and want to toss out thick as hell vapes, like a cigar, but you guys are going to cost the rest in the eyes of the ignorant. I plea to you to not use .... type vapers too much in public.

the way I see it in the future:

we will be limited to e-cig alikes with heavily limited suppliers

or complete bans unless its big tobacco ran.

which do you want to be part of? look, im not against you guys who want to toss out cigars level of smoke, but many people don't understand nor want to. to them, we are bypassing tobaccos laws. they see vape and they assume smoke, and can hurt their babies. STOP IT. we need to stay under the radar, and push our cause, it'll take long time but its in OUR BEST INTEREST.


our nation, the US is in too much political issues we'd be one of the easier ban if we continue. lets keep under radars

if they ban vaping ill quit because my life will depend on the ... GOVT. yours might not but mine will. im against those who wish to vape and toss up so thick vapes that it causes non smokers to caugh. our right does not surpass those who don't smoke. and I'd never agree to it. to me, it be like saying/fighting for automatic guns and IEDS. I will never support it.

You heavy smokers want to ruin it for us non heavy smokers like its your assault rifles and I will never back you on it. Stick to e-cgs for public use or get it GONE.

I'd say one golden rule that probably 99.9% of heavy users follow, solves this conundrum: Don't chase clouds near anyone..

~It doesn't matter if your vaping a blucig, aspire et-s/protank, kayfun, spinner battery, provari, dna30 or mechanical: DON'T BLOW YOUR VAPOR NEAR OTHERS YOU DON'T KNOW LOL, simple as that. It's just like cigarette smoke to the most .... freedom fighter out there *cough*, I'm fully aware that chasing clouds doesn't actually affect those around you (unless your at a "cloud competition"), but if some dude blew vapor on my baby, yeah I'd wanna sock him in the face.

I think this is common sense for basically everybody, if your that big of a tool to chase clouds in a library, then you'll do it reguardless of what your vaping.

Being a person that likes the biggest vape possible doesn't automatically make you a douche. I personally keep it at home, the only place I vape out and about is in my car, that's it.

 

[AndriaD]

Imagine the FDA approved "additives" BT will put in their juices overtime to help ensure loyalty to their products.

That is one of the main things that scares the bejeebers out of me! And the reason I'm starting to stock up on nicotine, so I can make my own without garbage and poison if I have to!

But that nickel per ml tax in NY is pretty scary too -- an extra $1.50 on every 30ml bottle... and you know that's just the first salvo, if it does pass -- look how the price of cigarettes went up from .50 in 1975 to over $5 in 2014 (here in GA.. a lot more elsewhere, I know). Pretty soon it'll be an extra $15 per 30ml...

Andria

 

[classwife]

Good afternoon in here

There has been a bit of line crossing here.

No Personal Attacks.

This is a Forum Rule : http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html

8. Courtesy
a. Members must be polite at all times. When addressing another Forum user, you will be polite. Courteous discussion is welcome here but heated and abusive argument is not.

9. Personal attacks
You can disagree with the subject matter of a post, but never personally attack the poster - “Attack the post, not the poster”. Treat people as you would like to be treated yourself: with courtesy.

15. Freedom of speech
Your contribution to this forum is not a right but a privilege. As this is a private website there is no public right to freedom of speech. The rules we have in place are to protect the site, and to provide a convivial environment for our Members. In short: we decide what is permissible or not permissible.




Please tone it down - there already 10 reports on this thread


Edit to add :

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html

11. Trolling ('fishing expeditions' in search of a strong reaction)
Trolling includes but is not restricted to:

Posting something deliberately inflammatory - either to start a 'flame war' or simply to cause difficulties for the Moderators.
Engaging in behaviour which is disruptive to the general operation of the Forum.
Deliberately posting something which is against our forum rules.

 

[skoony]

Big Pharma wants us to buy Chantix, Nicotine patches or gum, traditional cigarettes (so we can stay sick) in order for them to make a profit.

your right that BP wants to sell chantix,patches and gum but,thats their tax write off products.they make the big bucks off the medicines for cancer,copd,emphysema,etc.. .
regards
mike

 

[Midniteoyl]

Damn. I've been outed! Can't get one past you!

I've only been vaping since 2008, a member here since 2009. Have you considered a career in investigations there Sherlock?

What you call hyperbole I call perfect examples I've personally witnessed, to the point the person is asked to cease vaping or worse yet leave the establishment. If you require proof, go look at the Senate debate in New York City to add e-cigs to the clean air act that passed, better yet, here's some pics from that debate.

View attachment 345589View attachment 345590

As as I said, common sense. These people opted to make a spectacle of themselves to display their rights in the gallery of the Senate floor. Well those rights got taken away, and e-cigs are now as prohibited from indoor use as a tobacco cigarette in NYC. In fact one of the opposition who testified used this to her favor and got up and complained how her eyes were irritated and she couldn't breathe with all the vapor looming in the air.

Just because you personally have never seen such behavior, that does not mean it has not happened, and before you go throwing out allegations, you better have some facts in your corner.

Yep... Love the 'It doesnt happen' and the 'I can do what I want!' crowds... Every single issue ever brought up has had these two in the forefront and look at all the rights taken away 'cause of the 'in your face' and 'head in sand' people...



On this subject, my wife was in the UoC Medical Center (hospital) for 6 days (we just got home). While there I saw a guy in the sitting area just outside the patient hallway talking on the phone and vaping. Not sure what Mod he had (copper Stingray?) but he was using a brass Tobh. Blowing huge clouds. As I walked past, I noticed an elderly lady with oxygen also sitting there looking very uncomfortable, so I say "Hey man, nice mod, but maybe we should go downstairs and do that." Well, he had a few choice words and looks, I reply "I know man, but that lady there looks really uncomfortable." Well, now the more profane cursing starts and the pacing begins, interspersed with an attempt to tell everyone just how much of a favor he is doing her with his "curing smoke" (his words) and how he can "smoke this stuff" (his words) anywhere he wants, it's legal anywhere, and if "she don't like it, she can move! I aint going anywhere!" Well, right about that time Security showed up, explained that he could not 'smoke' in the hospital or on its grounds except the designated smoking area, and he needed to put it away. They got the same song and dance, only much more intense, until the gentleman was escorted from the building, leaving his sick wife alone. So, I ask, just what did this accomplish other than the guy got removed from the building unable to stay with his wife, another person that is against vaping and will certainly tell others, and a hospital that will now be absolutely certain to back the ban on 'e-cigarettes'??


Me? I stealth vaped when needed like at night during the hospital lock down and whatnot, or, went outside if I needed a more prolonged vaping session. I was never confronted, nor do I believe did anyone even suspect I was vaping in the room. For 6 days.


Its called 'common courtesy' people. And using tactics. You dont need to be 'in your face' about vaping. You dont need to hide it either. But, using simple tactics, calm and informative information, common sense, and common courtesy all go a very long way in making our case. Being rude and aggressive will only serve to lessen our cause and get more bans on vaping approved. Just like NYC...

 

[AndriaD]

On this subject, my wife was in the UoC Medical Center...

<snip>

Me? I stealth vaped when needed like at night during the hospital lock down and whatnot, or, went outside if I needed a more prolonged vaping session. I was never confronted, nor do I believe did anyone even suspect I was vaping in the room. For 6 days.

I agree 100%. I had to visit my mom in the hospital recently, and she always has a pvt room, so I would just go into the bathroom of her pvt and vape away -- which worked great at the last hospital she was in, last year, but this time, the bathroom had a louvered door... so I had to basically "stealth vape" even while in there with the door closed -- holding the vapor in as long as possible, blowing what little emerged into the shower compartment... so there wouldn't be visible vapor emerging via the louvers. It's very easy to do, it saves that 3 mile walk back to the car, and nobody gets upset, because there's no smell and no "dangerous" 2nd hand smoke.

But you know, I have to question one thing about vaping in a hospital... what if the person you're there to see is on oxygen? No, there's no actual fire or flame involved in vaping, but there is indeed a coil that glows red-hot when you use it... which seems to me as dangerous around oxygen as an actual flame. Anyone have any info on that?

Andria

 

[classwife]

Yep... Love the 'It doesnt happen' and the 'I can do what I want!' crowds... Every single issue ever brought up has had these two in the forefront and look at all the rights taken away 'cause of the 'in your face' and 'head in sand' people...



On this subject, my wife was in the UoC Medical Center (hospital) for 6 days (we just got home). While there I saw a guy in the sitting area just outside the patient hallway talking on the phone and vaping. Not sure what Mod he had (copper Stingray?) but he was using a brass Tobh. Blowing huge clouds. As I walked past, I noticed an elderly lady with oxygen also sitting there looking very uncomfortable, so I say "Hey man, nice mod, but maybe we should go downstairs and do that." Well, he had a few choice words and looks, I reply "I know man, but that lady there looks really uncomfortable." Well, now the more profane cursing starts and the pacing begins, interspersed with an attempt to tell everyone just how much of a favor he is doing her with his "curing smoke" (his words) and how he can "smoke this stuff" (his words) anywhere he wants, it's legal anywhere, and if "she don't like it, she can move! I aint going anywhere!" Well, right about that time Security showed up, explained that he could not 'smoke' in the hospital or on its grounds except the designated smoking area, and he needed to put it away. They got the same song and dance, only much more intense, until the gentleman was escorted from the building, leaving his sick wife alone. So, I ask, just what did this accomplish other than the guy got removed from the building unable to stay with his wife, another person that is against vaping and will certainly tell others, and a hospital that will now be absolutely certain to back the ban on 'e-cigarettes'??


Me? I stealth vaped when needed like at night during the hospital lock down and whatnot, or, went outside if I needed a more prolonged vaping session. I was never confronted, nor do I believe did anyone even suspect I was vaping in the room. For 6 days.


Its called 'common courtesy' people. And using tactics. You dont need to be 'in your face' about vaping. You dont need to hide it either. But, using simple tactics, calm and informative information, common sense, and common courtesy all go a very long way in making our case. Being rude and aggressive will only serve to lessen our cause and get more bans on vaping approved. Just like NYC...

Whoa...what a fine example to set...he should be our Poster Boy for Vaping


smh...What the heck is the matter with people.




They say you can't fix stupid...and that just proves it.


Glad security took out the garbage.

 

[Equilibrium]

...... wouldn't ya agree?

 

[TomGeorge]

I agree 100%. I had to visit my mom in the hospital recently, and she always has a pvt room, so I would just go into the bathroom of her pvt and vape away -- which worked great at the last hospital she was in, last year, but this time, the bathroom had a louvered door... so I had to basically "stealth vape" even while in there with the door closed -- holding the vapor in as long as possible, blowing what little emerged into the shower compartment... so there wouldn't be visible vapor emerging via the louvers. It's very easy to do, it saves that 3 mile walk back to the car, and nobody gets upset, because there's no smell and no "dangerous" 2nd hand smoke.

But you know, I have to question one thing about vaping in a hospital... what if the person you're there to see is on oxygen? No, there's no actual fire or flame involved in vaping, but there is indeed a coil that glows red-hot when you use it... which seems to me as dangerous around oxygen as an actual flame. Anyone have any info on that?

Andria

Thats a pretty good point! Unfortunately I dont have any actual info on that tho. That being said, I have never seen any of my coils glow red hot, when wicked and wet, only when cleaning and tweaking (i also only use cotton)

 

[JayQC]

I agree 100%. I had to visit my mom in the hospital recently, and she always has a pvt room, so I would just go into the bathroom of her pvt and vape away -- which worked great at the last hospital she was in, last year, but this time, the bathroom had a louvered door... so I had to basically "stealth vape" even while in there with the door closed -- holding the vapor in as long as possible, blowing what little emerged into the shower compartment... so there wouldn't be visible vapor emerging via the louvers. It's very easy to do, it saves that 3 mile walk back to the car, and nobody gets upset, because there's no smell and no "dangerous" 2nd hand smoke.

But you know, I have to question one thing about vaping in a hospital... what if the person you're there to see is on oxygen? No, there's no actual fire or flame involved in vaping, but there is indeed a coil that glows red-hot when you use it... which seems to me as dangerous around oxygen as an actual flame. Anyone have any info on that?

Andria

As long as the wick is wet with liquid, the coil won't glow red hot. Also, the oxygen concentration in the air would have to be very high to ignite without a naked flame.