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Some power packs are regulated, some aren't, and they're not all equal.
On batteries though, the voltage drop is real, and you're going to get a higher drop the more current you're trying to draw over the rating of the battery. If I get some time I'll rig up a test mod later and get some loaded values off of different batteries, but eh, :effort:, so no promises.
On batteries though, the voltage drop is real, and you're going to get a higher drop the more current you're trying to draw over the rating of the battery. If I get some time I'll rig up a test mod later and get some loaded values off of different batteries, but eh, :effort:, so no promises.
Let me try to understand what your talking about...If i can understand it anyone can...
My Atomizer has a rating of 2.5ohms Resistance my Battery puts out 5v(For simplicity of math)
2.5Ohms/5v = 2Amp Draw or 2000ma Draw
mAh is a measure of how much current can be drawn for one hour before battery drops off....
at a Discharge rate of 1c i would need a 2000mAh battery to use my PV for one hour
At a Discharge rate of 2c Would require a 1000mAh battery right? but would only last a half hour?
After that hour or Half hour passed the voltage would drop down to an unusable level and i would need to charge the battery?
My Atomizer has a rating of 2.5ohms Resistance my Battery puts out 5v(For simplicity of math)
2.5Ohms/5v = 2Amp Draw or 2000ma Draw
mAh is a measure of how much current can be drawn for one hour before battery drops off....
at a Discharge rate of 1c i would need a 2000mAh battery to use my PV for one hour
At a Discharge rate of 2c Would require a 1000mAh battery right? but would only last a half hour?
After that hour or Half hour passed the voltage would drop down to an unusable level and i would need to charge the battery?
I think this is a line that will confuse many people. As I understand it, mAh is a measurement of battery capacity. Since the PS PT is a direct feed from the USB, there is no mAh rating to talk about... maybe Cash meant mA, not mAh?
So can anyone answer me this: What is the amperage draw from say, a 510 atty? Let's pick a number out of the air for arguments sake, and say 200mA. Am I wrong in assuming a PT running 500mA would work exactly the same as a PT running 2A? The atty would still pull 200mA no matter what, right?
Maybe I'm just confused...
Tryp
I've read on this forum that the Ideal Amperage draw from an Atomizer is between 1amp - 2amps....i have a 901...but the Resistance level of my Atomizer was 2.5ohms which i think is pretty close to average(my 801 was 3.0ohms)
Amperage Draw depends almost entirely on Voltage and Resistance...Ohms law and all that..
I believe a PT runs at 5V no matter what...
Soo
5v/2.5ohms= 2000ma which is on the high side
Now as for the difference between it being feed 500ma or 2000ma
Amperage Times Voltage = Wattage(Basicly)
5V x 500ma = 2.5watts
5v x 2000ma = 10watts
Great thread. It is both pissy and informative so I don't know whether I should be carefully reading or eating popcorn. That said, it seems to me that there are two issues here One quite simple and one maybe more complex and maybe a third that got dropped long ago depending on the answer to the second issue.
1.) The simpler issue seems to be that any device that lets say uses a 901 atomizer and a hellcat xz456 battery (this is hypothetical) will perform exactly like another device using a 901 atty and a xz456 battery unless they regulate the voltage down, correct? Thus if they use the same battery and the same atomizer the only differences are cosmetic, sturdiness, and ergonomic. Does everyone agree?
2.) Does capacity affect (mah) performance given equal voltage on a.) the very first pull or is this a subjective effect based on actual experience throughout the battery charge b.) the 30th pull or beyond? My personal experience is that at 3.7v it is option (b) but then I don't have access to any information for most of my batteries beyond mah and V which apparently limits what I can say objectively.
3.) There seems to me that there was a third point which affects the consumer and that is how valuable are video/personal reviews given this information. Personally I have stopped watching video reviews for anything other than an experience of build, looks and ergonomics because they all are done with a freshly charged brand new battery and with a fresh battery I can fill a web cam with piles of vapor for the first few pulls off of any device and I would much rather see how something performs 2 months in and at half capacity which I think is the true affect of mah.
OK that got long and rambling and mostly is straight out of my cheeks, but I think it would help to agree on point 1.) and concentrate on the parts of point 2) where subjective experience doesn't really help and the explanations of folks who know the principles should carry the most weight. Of course the occasion pissing match thrown in for entertainment value is appreciated.
1.) The simpler issue seems to be that any device that lets say uses a 901 atomizer and a hellcat xz456 battery (this is hypothetical) will perform exactly like another device using a 901 atty and a xz456 battery unless they regulate the voltage down, correct? Thus if they use the same battery and the same atomizer the only differences are cosmetic, sturdiness, and ergonomic. Does everyone agree?
2.) Does capacity affect (mah) performance given equal voltage on a.) the very first pull or is this a subjective effect based on actual experience throughout the battery charge b.) the 30th pull or beyond? My personal experience is that at 3.7v it is option (b) but then I don't have access to any information for most of my batteries beyond mah and V which apparently limits what I can say objectively.
3.) There seems to me that there was a third point which affects the consumer and that is how valuable are video/personal reviews given this information. Personally I have stopped watching video reviews for anything other than an experience of build, looks and ergonomics because they all are done with a freshly charged brand new battery and with a fresh battery I can fill a web cam with piles of vapor for the first few pulls off of any device and I would much rather see how something performs 2 months in and at half capacity which I think is the true affect of mah.
OK that got long and rambling and mostly is straight out of my cheeks, but I think it would help to agree on point 1.) and concentrate on the parts of point 2) where subjective experience doesn't really help and the explanations of folks who know the principles should carry the most weight. Of course the occasion pissing match thrown in for entertainment value is appreciated.
To make it easier, a metaphor is probably better.
Imagine the mAh of your battery as the fuel tank of your car. Different batteries have different sizes and it will only affect how many miles you will be able to drive.
Now, for who didn't understand the fact that a power source doesn't "push" all the power it has, but viceversa, the good metaphor could be... umh.. a glass of orange juice is the battery, and you are going to drink it with a straw. It doesn't matter if the glass is 3 gallons or 1 quarter, you will be able to suck only a small amount of it with that straw. Now, if you change the straw with a bigger one, you will get a bigger amount, but still not related on the size of the glass.
The only difference for us when choosing a 1amp or 1.5amp power source (in the case of the PTs, for example) is that we (at least, I) don't know precisely how much can the atomizer "suck", so we play it safe and go with the biggest numbers
Another thing to keep in mind is the discharge rate (C) of the batteries. It is a value ranging from 1 to 2 (there are batteries for other purposes that can go higher or even smaller). This number means how much of the mAh can the battery give maximum at any given time.
Let's say you attach a device that uses 3 amps to a battery that is rated 2 Ah.
If the battery is a 1C battery,
1C * 2Ah = 2Amp -> the device will get only 2 amps, even if he needs 3
If the battery is a 1.5C battery,
1.5C * 2Ah = 3Amp -> the device will get 3 amps,as it needs
If the battery is a 2C battery,
2C * 2Ah = 4Amp -> the device will still get 3 amps, because it doesn't need 4!
It's not easy to understand this stuff, I might be wrong as well, but as far as I read/studied it's like this
Imagine the mAh of your battery as the fuel tank of your car. Different batteries have different sizes and it will only affect how many miles you will be able to drive.
Now, for who didn't understand the fact that a power source doesn't "push" all the power it has, but viceversa, the good metaphor could be... umh.. a glass of orange juice is the battery, and you are going to drink it with a straw. It doesn't matter if the glass is 3 gallons or 1 quarter, you will be able to suck only a small amount of it with that straw. Now, if you change the straw with a bigger one, you will get a bigger amount, but still not related on the size of the glass.
The only difference for us when choosing a 1amp or 1.5amp power source (in the case of the PTs, for example) is that we (at least, I) don't know precisely how much can the atomizer "suck", so we play it safe and go with the biggest numbers
Another thing to keep in mind is the discharge rate (C) of the batteries. It is a value ranging from 1 to 2 (there are batteries for other purposes that can go higher or even smaller). This number means how much of the mAh can the battery give maximum at any given time.
Let's say you attach a device that uses 3 amps to a battery that is rated 2 Ah.
If the battery is a 1C battery,
1C * 2Ah = 2Amp -> the device will get only 2 amps, even if he needs 3
If the battery is a 1.5C battery,
1.5C * 2Ah = 3Amp -> the device will get 3 amps,as it needs
If the battery is a 2C battery,
2C * 2Ah = 4Amp -> the device will still get 3 amps, because it doesn't need 4!
It's not easy to understand this stuff, I might be wrong as well, but as far as I read/studied it's like this
You are absolutely correct! Would just like to add that with the proper Amp from the battery voltage drop is minimal thus keeping your watts(heat) stable.
So what is the proper amp for these things and since most batteries give us Volt and Mah what does the consumer look for?
You will look for the discharge factor (xC) multiply mAh by that number that will give you the max current(amp). 801/901 needs 1.2amps, the 510 needs 1.68amps
Cool. Info like this would have saved some bw, but since I have you answering question let me make sure I have this straight. So if you get a battery that puts out 2amps you should be covered for any atomizer (beter to go a little over than under), correct? And is that Ma or MaH? And looking at some basic websites it looks like this information requires a little bit of research.
Yes 2A would cover best to go over. xC x mAh gets the Amp capability of battery in mA. 1000mA = 1A
its no problem.. really.. I very much appreciate the sentiment... The adaptever is for sure not dead.. I have just been spending most of my time working instead of pounding the threads... no offense taken and no offense given.. Thx warp!
I have been making many advances lately... specifically, 6.0v sleeve, additional insert adapters, and I hope very soon a drop in the price point... It is important to me as a fellow vapor to make the AdapteveR as affordable as possible... I have never been a profiteer and really do want to enhance the community not gouge it...
sorry for impeding on this thread it was not intentional.. pls proceed without my interference...
He's right on longevity, you're right on stability, as kina said in his post:
In brief, a higher mAh battery will give longer life, better performance for longer and slightly better performance from the very first vape.
Now, can we quit playing the silly-... semantics games?
No - the POWER SUPPLY will provide as much a 1a / 1.5a while remaining stable. That has nothing to do with the atomizer.
Incorrect.
Ohm's law cares not one whit for discharge rates. The atomizer will draw the 3 amps regardless.
The charge and discharge current of a battery is measured in C-rate. Most portable batteries are rated at 1C. This means that a 1000mAh battery would provide 1000mA for one hour if discharged at 1C rate. The same battery discharged at 0.5C would provide 500mA for two hours. At 2C, the 1000mAh battery would deliver 2000mA for 30 minutes. 1C is often referred to as a one-hour discharge; a 0.5C would be a two-hour, and a 0.1C a 10-hour discharge.
Wrong
The C rating is probably the most crucial bit of data about a lithium cell. The C rating refers to the charge or discharge rate of the battery in relation to its capacity. The clearest way to explain is via example:
If you have a 3600mAh (3.6Ah) battery which states a charge rate of 1C, it means you should charge at 3.6 amps. Similarly if you have a 4900mAh (4.9Ah) battery that tells you to charge at 1C, you should charge at 4.9 amps. Nice and simple really, isn’t it?
The importance of C values is with discharge though. Say your battery has a 15C discharge rating, and is a 3600mAh – do the basic maths. 3.6 amps x 15C = 54 amps. This means the battery can deliver 54 amps. If you have a motor/esc that can draw 65 amps though, then this battery cannot deliver enough current. Consequently you will either have a slow car, ruin the battery or both. It is important therefore to ensure you get high C cells capable of supplying enough current to your system.
Typically there are at least two different C ratings. One is for continuous use, which is the lowest C rating. The other C rating is for acceleration, known as the burst rating and is higher. For example the TrakPower 4900mAh has a 25C average rating (122.5 amps) and a 30C burst rating (147 amps). This means it can deliver 122 amps average current, but if you have a very thirsty esc/motor it will be able to supply up to 147 amps for a short period (3-4 seconds usually) for heavy acceleration.
It is worth buying a pack with a C rating higher than what you need. If you have a low C rating compared to what you need, you will be pushing the pack to its limit on every use. If you buy a higher C rating than you need, the pack will be operating well within its limits and as a result should last longer. Another argument for high C rating is that higher C rated packs almost always lead to lower voltage drops under load, in turn giving better performance.
This is a copy and paste I am tired of explainig this.
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If you're "tired of explaining it" then gain a better understanding of what you're talking about, unless you're claiming that the Chinese are putting 13C+ rated batteries in their 510s (2.39A @ 180mah = 13.277 "C")
The "C" rating is a ratio comparing the capacity of the battery and the current draw placed upon that battery. It describes the current draw that the battery can provide in a stable manner - that's it.
If I have a 1000mah battery and I put a 1 amp draw on it, that is a 1C rate and the battery will drain in an hour. If I put that same 1 amp draw on a 500mah battery, that is a 2C rate and the battery will drain in 30 minutes.
If I put a 1 ohm load on a 5v battery, it is going to draw 5amps whether that battery was designed for a 1C rating or a 1000C rating. The only difference is going to be the stability of the battery at that discharge rate.
The "C" rating is a ratio comparing the capacity of the battery and the current draw placed upon that battery. It describes the current draw that the battery can provide in a stable manner - that's it.
If I have a 1000mah battery and I put a 1 amp draw on it, that is a 1C rate and the battery will drain in an hour. If I put that same 1 amp draw on a 500mah battery, that is a 2C rate and the battery will drain in 30 minutes.
If I put a 1 ohm load on a 5v battery, it is going to draw 5amps whether that battery was designed for a 1C rating or a 1000C rating. The only difference is going to be the stability of the battery at that discharge rate.
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The C-rating refers to the acceptable discharge rate "without damage." Some engineers sit down, do some calculations and tests and figure out what current will allow the battery to have a reasonable lifespan and rate it. These PV battery makers may not have paid any engineers to figure out a C-rating for these batteries, but the implication is,
and this is important,
we are very likely overloading these batteries through normal use because they are underbuilt for the application we are using them for.
Hence, Li batteries that should last up to three years, die after a month or less.
This is not the only possible reason these batteries die early, but it is a reasonable one.
EDIT: And another thing, if you overload a battery, the voltage will droop under load more than a battery that is properly rated, which will in fact reduce the immediate performance because the amperage across the atomizer drops along with the voltage. This is the crux of why the modders believe their mods produce more vapor even though both batteries are technically rated at 3.7V.
and this is important,
we are very likely overloading these batteries through normal use because they are underbuilt for the application we are using them for.
Hence, Li batteries that should last up to three years, die after a month or less.
This is not the only possible reason these batteries die early, but it is a reasonable one.
EDIT: And another thing, if you overload a battery, the voltage will droop under load more than a battery that is properly rated, which will in fact reduce the immediate performance because the amperage across the atomizer drops along with the voltage. This is the crux of why the modders believe their mods produce more vapor even though both batteries are technically rated at 3.7V.
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