MYTHS and FACTS about Batteries + mods

[wv2win]

My only view is that 'all' the mods are way overpriced. If the Chinese stopped trying so hard to imitate a cigarette they could make them for just a few pounds or dollars.

Unfortunately, due to so many American PV's users being soooo concerned about appearance instead of performance, they will keep making devices that look like the real thing and perform quite poorly. Most American users deserve to pay for poor performing devices because their main priority is that the device be cheap and look like the real thing. The Chinese are only giving them what they want.

 

[forcedfuel50]

I agree that subtle differences such as air draw do make a difference, but only on the negative side, Atomizers were designed for certain amount of air to go through them . So anything you can do to alter it will as far as today ,make the performance worse not better.

And again, that is only my own opinion.

I have to disagree with your opinion. Altering the airflow does not make the performance worse for everyone.

Adjusting the air flow on atomizers definitely leads to positive results for some as some like a real easy draw while others prefer a very hard draw. In fact, even the factory has adjusted the airflow by making 2,3,4 hole atomizers to alter airflow. Indeed you are correct that the atomizers were designed with a target airflow in mind, but that target is not always optimal for everyone's preferences. Even the "factory" has recognized this.

David

 

[warp1900]

I have to disagree with your opinion. Altering the airflow does not make the performance worse for everyone.

Adjusting the air flow on atomizers (i can only do it on the 801) definitely leads to positive results for some as some like a real easy draw, others prefer a very hard draw. In fact one could argue even the factory has adjusted the airflow themselves by making 2,3,4 hole atomizers to alter airflow. Indeed you are correct that the atomizers were designed with a target airflow in mind, but that target is not always optimal for everyone's preferences. Even the "factory" has recognized this.

David

David, i agree with you and i am glad you added to it, because every subject is more complex than we would wish. I just over simplified the answer.
And even though this thread was intended to be of some help for newbies coming in, it does not exclude anyone that can bring more positive thinking to the table.

Thank you

 

[Trypwyr]

So people keep mentioning higher mA power sources being better... I was under the impression that the amperage is pulled by the atomizer, not pushed by the power source. So as long as the atty gets what it wants, all the rest is just gravy. Same idea when I look for a DC power adapter for my boom box, or whatever. If it says it needs 9v, 500mA, any adapter that has the right size plug, is 9v and at least 500mA works. Is this not correct?

Tryp

 

[Ridewithme38]

So people keep mentioning higher mA power sources being better... I was under the impression that the amperage is pulled by the atomizer, not pushed by the power source. So as long as the atty gets what it wants, all the rest is just gravy. Same idea when I look for a DC power adapter for my boom box, or whatever. If it says it needs 9v, 500mA, any adapter that has the right size plug, is 9v and at least 500mA works. Is this not correct?

Tryp

I think i once heard that Basicly...AC Current is Pushed into Devices while DC Devices Pull Current into them...So as far as i know you are basicly correct...The problem lies in the Atomizer...The atomizer has a resting Ohm(Resistance) Number that changes with Heat and use...Basicly from my understanding...the longer you run you atomizer the hotter it gets the less resistance...If the Resistance gets low enough is will pull more current then it could handle at resting resistance, and the coils are weaker at higher heat so it can't handle that current........

Wait! Why doesn't that make sense to me?

 

[warp1900]

So people keep mentioning higher mA power sources being better... I was under the impression that the amperage is pulled by the atomizer, not pushed by the power source. So as long as the atty gets what it wants, all the rest is just gravy. Same idea when I look for a DC power adapter for my boom box, or whatever. If it says it needs 9v, 500mA, any adapter that has the right size plug, is 9v and at least 500mA works. Is this not correct?

Tryp

As far as my understanding goes, you are correct.

Now, higher mAh power sources are what let's you vape for more time without re-charging, that is why some keep metioning it i guess.

mAh OR mA. can be confused sometimes.

 

[wv2win]

As far as my understanding goes, you are correct.

Now, higher mAh power sources are what let's you vape for more time without re-charging, that is why some keep metioning it i guess.

mAh OR mA. can be confused sometimes.

I think you are wrong and I believe this experienced member explained it well:

Two batteries using the same technology but with different mAh ratings ... the main difference will be longer life between charges. Put another way, after some period of time the one with the higher mAh rating will have a higher voltage remaining, on and off load.

There IS a performance increase in the higher mAh rated battery from the very first second; how much depends on the ratings - one would not tell much much of a difference between 1000mAh and 2000mAh but between 100mAh and 200mAh it would be noticeable. The reason is internal resistance. For a given range of batteries (same technology inside), bigger capacity will imply lower internal resistance meaning lower voltage drop under load and more current (hence more power).

In brief, a higher mAh battery will give longer life, better performance for longer and slightly better performance from the very first vape.

(There are some lithium batteries with high mAh designed for backup power that use a different chemistry and cannot supply a high current. These aside, there is a small advantage in power from the very beginning with a higher capacity battery, though it is over time that the slower decline in charge means that the performance difference becomes greater.)

 

[warp1900]

I think you are wrong and I believe this experienced member explained it well:

No , you need to pay more attention to what you read, because what i said is basically the same thing.

Funny thing is you used that same quoted post from kinabaloo earlier.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...out-batteries-mods-post465615.html#post465615

Maybe you like the way kina explains it better than mine, but that doesn't mean i am wrong about mAh.

 

[Trypwyr]

No , you need to pay more attention to what you read, because what i said is basically the same thing.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. I thought maybe I was missing something there. Had to go back and re-read both posts a couple times, as it looks like they said pretty much the same thing...

Tryp

 

[wv2win]

As far as my understanding goes, you are correct.

Now, higher mAh power sources are what let's you vape for more time without re-charging, that is why some keep metioning it i guess.

You keep making the point that more mAh does nothing but let you vape longer and has no effect on the quality of the throat hit, vapor, performance, etc. Due to the relationship to load and resistence, I believe you are wrong. Your prior statements do not support kinabaloo's points. Nor does the experience of hundreds of members who have done comparisons between the different battery models.

 

[warp1900]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. I thought maybe I was missing something there. Had to go back and re-read both posts a couple times, as it looks like they said pretty much the same thing...

Tryp

No worries,

Technical information for us non-tech people sometimes seems convoluted (at least it does to me), and it can take not only 2 but several more times re-reading something to grasp it.

Besides, even tech people make posting mistakes, which is understandable. Unfortunately they also don't consider that not everyone is able to understand things in technical terms.

 

[warp1900]

You keep making the point that more mAh does nothing buy let you vape longer and has no effect on the quality of the throat hit, vapor, performance, etc. Due to the relationship to load and resistence, I believe you are wrong. Your prior statements do not support kinabaloo's points. Nor does the experience of hundreds of members who have done comparisons between the different battery models.

And i still make the same point,

kinabaloo's explanation is the extended version of mine.

bigger battery size = higher mAh
higher mAh = slower voltage drop
slower voltage drop = same amount of hit/vapor for longer period of time.
So:
bigger battery size = same amount of hit/vapor for longer period of time

The voltage is what makes your atomizer run "better".
A bigger battery will obviously HOLD the same voltage for a longer period of use, therefore vaping optimally for a longer time, NOT BETTER than other batteries.

I explained that in my original post here. I am sorry if it is still confusing to you.

 

[gjrhine]

Then what would be the difference in a passthrough where you get constant amps like this -

Wall adapter 1a
Kensington Powerpack 1.5a

 

[warp1900]

Then what would be the difference in a passthrough where you get constant amps like this -

Wall adapter 1a
Kensington Powerpack 1.5a

Passthroughs, wall warts, portable power packs, etc. is a whole different story.

You answered your own question...constant of course until your power pack runs out of "juice"

 

[gjrhine]

How did I answer my own question? In one case an attomizer can draw as much as 1a, in the other as much as 1.5a.

 

[warp1900]

How did I answer my own question? In one case an attomizer can draw as much as 1a, in the other as much as 1.5a.

You are talking about Ah not mAh, very different thing.

Both the power supply and the power pack will provide constant voltage to the atomizer which will make it vape the same every time you puff on it.

This thread is about batteries and mods, that is why i didn't mention other options to vape, it would have made the thread even longer than it already is.

 

[gjrhine]

You are talking about Ah not mAh, very different thing.

Both the power supply and the power pack will provide constant voltage to the atomizer which will make it vape the same every time you puff on it.

Ok but maybe there is a difference according to this but it's not clear what.

True ... and that is what you would expect .... No doubt amp hours is simply that ... amount of time you will get .... BUT, vape a PT at 500mAh, then vape that same PT at 2000mAh and there is a difference

 

[Kewtsquirrel]

A power pack is a battery, and as such is subject to voltage drop.

Also, you're missing a very big issue on batteries trying to claim that the mAh rating only affects time between charges. Li-ions are designed to be discharged at a max of 1.5-2C, start going above that and you're operating outside the intended use parameters. Over-discharge will signifigantly shorten the overall life of the battery, or worst case scenario *could* cause a catastrophic failure. (boom)

tl;dr: stay away from anything smaller than a 10440, and be careful with those as they're unprotected.

 

[gjrhine]

A power pack is a battery, and as such is subject to voltage drop.

What if it's plugged in while used?

 

[warp1900]

A power pack is a battery, and as such is subject to voltage drop.

Also, you're missing a very big issue on batteries trying to claim that the mAh rating only affects time between charges. Li-ions are designed to be discharged at a max of 1.5-2C, start going above that and you're operating outside the intended use parameters. Over-discharge will signifigantly shorten the overall life of the battery, or worst case scenario *could* cause a catastrophic failure. (boom)

tl;dr: stay away from anything smaller than a 10440, and be careful with those as they're unprotected.

OK nerf, read my thread first and then point out what i missed or what i didn't.

I stated clearly that you must use protected batteries, so your discharge scenario does not apply here.
A power pack is a battery(pack) WITH electronics (not part of a battery) that make it provide the same voltage constantly. (batteries do not provide constant voltage), but you already know that.

Many in here are geniuses when it comes to argue about others post but nothing different/new to add.