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Natural Tobaccos - Part Deux

Discussion in 'General E-Liquid Discussion' started by luceblueboy, Jan 27, 2014.

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  1. dsheik

    dsheik Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 18, 2014
    overland park, KS
    For RTE use the 20% discount code Boilerguy linked and Blacknote lowered their prices to $23 down from $29. Their new lineup is $19 but I didnt like like the one i tried. Both RTE and Blacknote use free priority shipping, so you get it fast with no shipping costs. They both also use cold maceration extraction which is why IMO they taste cleaner and more consistent than NET. You used to be able to select cold extraction at NET.com, but now you get heat extraction by default. I still order from NET.com but I do prefer RTE and Blacknote.
     
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  2. AnthonyB

    AnthonyB Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 5, 2010
    Sydney Australia
    There was a time when you would be more likely
    to hear that Elvis was sighted than an opinion that a vendor was favored over NET.com. Net.com was that good in the old days.

    Business cycles of vape vendors seem to have steep short arcs.

    When NET.com first started most juices were available in cold Mac, at least after a few weeks of the initial release. No doubt, cold Mac needs 4-6 weeks to prepare so the heat extract version would come out sooner. However as you said, many of the juices now are only available in heat Mac. Though I have noticed some of the cigarette based extractions like big spirit and the NS brown and others are available in cold Mac.

    I think heat extraction is dead. We were all still figuring out what produced the best NET a few years ago and many home made extractions were being made with heat Mac to speed up a brew and not have to wait weeks for a finished product. Many NET vendors were using heat Mac as well. It was a trade off between quality and clarity of flavour and speed of production.

    We used euphemisms to describe heat Mac brews like 'heat Mac gives the juice a stronger fuller hit' but in retrospect, IMO heat Mac dulled the important nuances in tobacco juices and made it taste a bit dirty or ashy.

    Heat Mac involves warming up PG and VG to about 110 degrees Fahrenheit. Since when is this good for solvents? I think it causes juice to have a shorter life. It dulls flavour, kills the nuances and makes a juice less clean. It disobeys all the rules for the proper preservation and storage of juice. Now I am not a molecular chemist or physicist but I am pretty sure heating up solvents for heat Mac deteriorates the freshness and quality of a solvent.

    We now see reputable vendors like Real Tobacco Extracts, Blacknote and Kindjuice producing only cold Macs.

    While heat Mac is a good option for home extractions for personal use I don't think that it is acceptable in the market place for a vendor to justify fast produced heat macerations anymore.


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  3. BoilerGuy

    BoilerGuy Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2016
    Yep, I stuck with Real Tobacco Extracts primarily because they were all long steep cold maceration. The flavors are very clean and the individual variety notes are very sharply defined. The "cooked" extracts always came across to my palate as muddy. They also gunked up my coils much faster than the cold macerations.
     
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  4. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    AnthonyB, I agree with your observations and as a home extractor, for some time, I found the flavor of my juices far superior when I used the to cold macerate method. I also, believe it not, I found that my net liquids would tend to loose some flavor the greater the filtering took out particles and all sediment.
    I really do not feel everyone, including many fine vendors, had that same result, however I am sure some folks did.
     
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  5. newyork13

    newyork13 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 9, 2013
    western Massachusetts
    This discussion about the heat vs. cold is quite interesting.
    I know less about net's than you folks do, though I enjoy them a lot.
    When I compare NET's RY4 to RTE's (which are the only two I have from both which have a similar taste profile), I find the NET version more flavorful and richer. I also, without doubt, find it gunks up more by miles.
     
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  6. AnthonyB

    AnthonyB Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 5, 2010
    Sydney Australia
    Yeah muddy is a good adjective. I've thrown half a liter of NETs down the drain in the last 12-18 months because I couldn't stand the 'muddy' flavour.




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  7. AnthonyB

    AnthonyB Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 5, 2010
    Sydney Australia
    A few years ago I experimented in a big way with tobacco extraction and exclusively used the heat Maceration technique (a rice cooker method actually) and also a windowsill method. I didn't try cold Mac at all.

    Well all of my juice tasted muddy and lacked nuance. I didn't keep a single bottle. They all went down the drain. Some of my juices were acceptable and some turned out really bad.

    I think I might give tobacco extraction another shot this winter as the days become shorter and I am not as busy. I will use only a cold Mac method. Is, tobacco in a mason jar, 6 weeks in a dark COOL place and then filtered with 3 micron paper.

    I might not go in so big this time :)


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  8. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    This is the way I started also. One thing I did differently was:
    1. As far as a "muddy" taste? I solved that by first taking the the extract and running it through cheese cloth, trapping the tobacco and keeping that drained liquid in a second jar. Afterwards, I returned the liquid into the original jar and let it further settle out any sediment for a couple days. I used all but the last of the remaining juice down to where the sediment was and filtered that, as stated below...No muddy taste!
    2. I filtered with a french coffee press then
    3. I filtered with a 5 micron filer on part of the extract
    4. I filtered the rest of the extract by taking the french press liquid and filtered it by putting it through a paper coffee filter and a second time with a new paper coffee filter.
    This process showed the following. the 5 micron process, naturally, showed up clearer then the paper coffee filter and gunked up less than the paper filter method. However, the paper filter method had a little more flavor in my sub ohm tank! yes it caused me to rebuild/change the coils more often, but the trade off was much more satisfying to me, at least. Hope this helps somebody..... :smokie:
     
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  9. GeekyGeezer

    GeekyGeezer Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 14, 2015
    Missouri
    I might be talking out of the part I sit on since I've never tried to extract, but I have yet to find a really good N.E.T that wasn't hard on my coils. Some are worse than others, but IMHO it's just the price paid for great taste.
     
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  10. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    The things we must endure to enjoy a great vape. Suffer on, LOL.
     
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  11. boomerdude

    boomerdude Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    If you want flavor your going to have gunk.
     
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  12. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    Thank goodness I'm not the only one that flavor equates to some gunk
     
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  13. KostVape

    KostVape New Member

    Mar 16, 2018
    This one was the best tobacco juice which I tried. Maybe you will like this one too. Vaping it till now.
     

    Attached Files:

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  14. AnthonyB

    AnthonyB Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 5, 2010
    Sydney Australia
    Thanks checkum. I will definitely refer to this method when I trial some batches :)


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  15. Skeebo

    Skeebo Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Has anyone here heard of Boardroom Vapor? I saw someone mention them in a group I am in, but I cannot find any detailed information on whether they are NET's or not. The descriptions on some of their flavors describe having Burley, Perique, etc., which make me think they are NET's.
     
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  16. GeekyGeezer

    GeekyGeezer Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 14, 2015
    Missouri
    They're new to me, but after four years of looking for NETs about the only constant that seems to exist is that if someone is going to all the trouble to extract tobacco they prominently mention their components.

    I've gone as far as emailing three or four makers and each answer was pretty much the same: "NET? I dunno what that is, but I get my tobacco stuff when I order the rest of my flavorings."
     
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  17. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    You hit the nail on the head GeekyGeezer. If they aren't proud enough of their product to say what's in it I stay clear, especially if they do not have a website and someone else sells it for them. The second question that come to my mind is where the :censored: is it made, let alone what's in it.
     
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  18. AnthonyB

    AnthonyB Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 5, 2010
    Sydney Australia
    Mt Vaper Baker and other vendors are selling them. Some of the reviews are mediocre. One of the reviews said it has a cheap after shave smell.

    It's hard to tell if they are a NET but the fact that they mention varietals could be an indication. I can't find a site devoted to the brand.

    In any event, some non NET 'TINOs' are very nice. I've had many over the years and some were among my favourite vapes. Ahlusion is a key example.


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  19. checkum

    checkum Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 8, 2014
    Missouri, USA
    I have been enjoying this extraction for a long time and as recently as all day, off and on, yesterday:



    [​IMG]
    Profile:
    Tobacco: Latakia, Perique, Turkish, Virginia
    Style: English
    Room Note: 4 - Distinct
    Cut: Ribbon
    Packaging: Tin
    Country of Origin: United States
    Flavor Intensity: 4 - Distinct
    Brand: Cornell & Diehl
    Less Details
    Click the icons below for product information.
    Cornell & Diehl Joie de Vivre

     
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  20. AnthonyB

    AnthonyB Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 5, 2010
    Sydney Australia
    Okay guys I am considering wading gently into NET.com so I don't drown this time.

    I am going to order just 6 or 7 15 ml bottles on a 'trial' basis.

    Anyone have any recent experience with NET.com juices? What's tasting good and are did you get heat maceration or cold maceration?


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