Natural Tobaccos

[Evil Speakers]

To my palate all of GeJ was rather strong on the Burley and sweet right out of the mail and needed steeping. After steeping, they all have become predominately sugar water with a non-descript, bland tobacco. The only ones that have retained any unique flavor are Patriot and Perique, but my Perique is only a week old.

I had the same experience with Wild Turkey and Patriot. After a couple of months they had little of their original flavor or any flavor at all for that matter. I wasn't too crazy about about Wild Turkey to begin with, but I loved Patriot. I just ordered a 30ml bottle of Patriot and am keeping my fingers crossed that the flavor loss was a fluke or maybe the overworked disposable atty's I was using at the time played a part.

 

[billherbst]

I had the same experience with Wild Turkey and Patriot. After a couple of months they had little of their original flavor or any flavor at all for that matter. I wasn't too crazy about about Wild Turkey to begin with, but I loved Patriot. I just ordered a 30ml bottle of Patriot and am keeping my fingers crossed that the flavor loss was a fluke or maybe the overworked disposable atty's I was using at the time played a part.

For me, the one downside to GeJ NETs---besides the hand-written labels whose ink fades---is that some of the house-brewed tobacco juices are reverse steepers that taste best when fresh but lose luster over time. Vita Bella, Wild Turkey, and Fire-Cured all ended up tasting meh to me after awhile. Another NET in the same category is VapeRite VR4, which is to die for when fresh but nothing to write home about when it gets a little long in the tooth.

It's one thing to tire of a juice, which definitely happens for me with many eliquids---both retail and my own DIY. I like them at first but fall out of love with them over time. That's OK, though. It's quite another thing to have a juice die on me. That's much more sad. But then, different juices have different lifespans. I'm not sure a general rule applies, but the half-life of most natural tobacco extracts seem to me shorter than that of many synthetic, lab-based, artificial flavorings.

 

[Jerms]

For me, the one downside to GeJ NETs---besides the hand-written labels whose ink fades---is that some of the house-brewed tobacco juices are reverse steepers that taste best when fresh but lose luster over time. Vita Bella, Wild Turkey, and Fire-Cured all ended up tasting meh to me after awhile. Another NET in the same category is VapeRite VR4, which is to die for when fresh but nothing to write home about when it gets a little long in the tooth.

It's one thing to tire of a juice, which definitely happens for me with many eliquids---both retail and my own DIY. I like them at first but fall out of love with them over time. That's OK, though. It's quite another thing to have a juice die on me. That's much more sad. But then, different juices have different lifespans. I'm not sure a general rule applies, but the half-life of most natural tobacco extracts seem to me shorter than that of many synthetic, lab-based, artificial flavorings.

I'm the same way, tiring of a juice is very much the norm for me, and I can expect it, but when a juice dies on me, actually loses flavor, I feel robbed. Not by the maker or the vendor, my feelings of animosity get aimed directly at the juice lol. I'm not talking the normal loss in flavor that can be expected from any juice with natural flavors, but the ones that happen early in their lifetime like Fire Cured from GeJ, and the fruit aromatic tobaccos from Ahlusion.

It's funny that you mention Vita as losing it's luster over time, as for many they don't even like it until it's OVER 6 months old. It's another one of those things that depends on the person, I've heard others say they prefer Fire Cured steeped, but to me it's almost pointless to vape when it's aged.

I have both Vita and Patriot that are about 4 and a half months old, and they have just as much flavor as when fresh, actually a deeper flavor when steeped for me. The ones I keep around for a while are kept in glass in a dark place, and I refill the plastic bottle I'm using as needed, which extends the life. As you mentioned Bill, this is much more an issue with natural flavorings like NET, synthetics seem to have a very long shelf life. The Janty RY4 I have that was made in 2009-2010 is full of flavor.

 

[Jerms]

New to me tobaccos I still have to try.. 2 of Bill's extactions, 2 of John's extractions, Brown Bomber (Monkey Poo), Caramel Wild Wood from Ahl, and Smooth Smokey Joe's from VX. Going to try to get to them all next week along with some new non-baccos.

I have so much on hand right now, and with black Friday/cyber Monday coming up, along with a couple orders I really want to make from HHV and GeJ, my collection is getting out of hand. So.. going to want to unload some of my older juices that don't work for me or I'm tired of. If anyone is low on funds, needs juice, and isn't too picky about flavors PM me for a care package. Keep it to PM please since we're not allowed to discuss this on the public forum in this section. No trades, not compensation necessary, just hope you PIF to someone else at a later time.

 

[rdsok]

I'm going to go OT here just for a bit if I may... if it matters, I'm vaping a NET on all of the following...lol

My first 3 micro/mini coils went great without any hitches ( that weren't my own fault ) to speak of. Taste and vapor production were all as "advertised". So far I've built for an IGO-L ( 10 wraps around 3/32" resulting in 3Ω using 2mm silica and 30ga kanthal ), a couple of Mini Protanks ( 1 10 wrap around a 1/16" rod resulting in 2.0Ω and one 8 wrap @ 1.6Ω also using 2mm silica and 30ga kanthal )...

The next two were fails and I don't know why... I used the same materials everywhere... An 8 wrap @ 1.6Ω in a Mini Protank and an 8 wrap around a slightly larger than 1/16" ( unknown ga blunt needle ) @ 2.3Ω in a EhPro Kayfun Lite clone.... Both of these have a metalic taste to the vape.

All of the wire and silica is from the same stock and just cut further down the roll of each... I can only guess that the taste is coming from the setup somehow even though I thought I placed the wick/coils directly in front of their respective holes. I almost blamed the EhPro KFL but then had the same thing on the next Mini Protank .... so I'm at a loss as to what may cause it.

Does anyone with more experience than I ( not hard to do ) have any idea's that I may look for or try?

 

[rdsok]

Oh... I need to add...

In prep... I flame annealed the wires to get rid of the springyness and then before I threaded the wick through... I used a flame along with my needlenose pliers to tighten the coils together so they touched evenly. On the EhPro KFL... I did the final coil "tightening" on the unit since I could get my pliers onto the coil ( couldn't on the M-PT's, did these outside of the heads )

 

[Jerms]

Sorry rdsok, not much I can think of to recommend.

Usually a metallic taste comes from part of the coil getting red hot, either from long legs (which usually isn't a problem with micro and mini coils) or from a wrap or two drying out because it's not getting liquid on it. If your builds are the same and they worked fine before though it's kind of odd. Do your coils glow evenly starting from the inside out? Any possibilities of a short happening somewhere along the line, maybe even after the head is put in or tank screwed down?

 

[Chinook]

Days since arrival: 4
Nicotine level (mg/mL): 6
Bottle size (mL): 12
Equipment: Halo Triton 2.4 mL tank and Triton VV
PG/VG : 50/50
Tobacco impact: Low to none
Overall weight: Low
Throat hit: Low
Aromas and flavors: Sour vinegary, touch of soy sauce
Dimensions: 1.5
Notes: Two words, savory and umami! Very different kind of vape. It is like smelling a warm bowl of diluted vinegar and soy sauce. I hope steeping will make it more interesting and bring out more tobacco layers.

I wonder if Perique actually acts like "Umami" on our tongues. And maybe it has MSG in it from fermentation? By itself it's weird, but I hear that makes the flavors from other tobaccos more interesting in a pipe blend...

 

[rdsok]

Sorry rdsok, not much I can think of to recommend.

Usually a metallic taste comes from part of the coil getting red hot, either from long legs (which usually isn't a problem with micro and mini coils) or from a wrap or two drying out because it's not getting liquid on it. If your builds are the same and they worked fine before though it's kind of odd. Do your coils glow evenly starting from the inside out? Any possibilities of a short happening somewhere along the line, maybe even after the head is put in or tank screwed down?

I think they were the same... but again, that is why I asked. They appear to be glowing from the inside out but really, they heat up pretty quickly even at 6-7w... so a hot spot is possible and perhaps I'm just not seeing it because of that. At least that gives me a direction and I do remember having it on standard style coils because of a hot leg or coil... so that makes sense and gives me something to look at/for.

I will say I do notice that the micro coils do seem to be vapable longer before they taste odd than the standard ones ( on the working coils I've done ). Vaping N-E-T.com's Big Spirit on a standard head for M-PT would last about a tank... with the micro coil I'm on tank 3 although there was a point I thought it was about to get over gunked... it seemed to burn through it or something with the only issue now being that it's making the juice darker now.

I'll rebuild later... after I finish playing around with my Android TV dongle I got the other day

Thanks for the reply and the idea of a possible cause

 

[Jerms]

Have fun playing with your dongle.

 

[erawk]

cotton? could it be a matter of too little or too much fill?

Those android TVs are awesome.

 

[erawk]

hey jerms. Id ask Nick how old the fire cured extract he is currently using is. That way you know before you order. I just reordered and it seems darker (older) than the last time i got it.

 

[rdsok]

cotton? could it be a matter of too little or too much fill?

Those android TVs are awesome.

I'm not using cotton ( at least yet )... the too little / much part would still apply to silica though.

As for the Android Smart TV dongle... they are really cool but since they are almost the same as my android smartphone ( minus the phone of course )... I sort of knew what to expect already... It's just cool doing it on my TV instead. I have a twofold reason for getting one... the usual personal ones as well as trying one out to see if it is viable for basic business use or not to give my clients other options besides a full blown computer in certain cases.

 

[erawk]

XBMC is very powerful. I'll PM ya.

 

[rdsok]

XBMC is very powerful. I'll PM ya..

That info would be cool... I've looked at a few directions like that and haven't been impressed with the free stuff yet ( like Crackle, direct from the broadcaster's website and the sort ).

 

[MFToms59]

Thank you

You're welcome, one thing I failed to mention, my Heat Extraction times are just guidelines and factor in how strong/noticeable the Aroma of the steeped extraction is when I enter the Kitchen.

My Coffee Extraction is the exception, and Time is the Bigger Factor. I believe a Longer Coffee steep may lead to a Bitter taste and limit it to 4 hours maximum on Fresh ground Beans. Recently, billherbst has used Instant Coffee for his Extraction, so my next one will be with Jacobs Cronat Gold, a German Brand I enjoy by the cup on occasion.

ADD; Addressing the NET Reverse Steeping, With the exception of Vita Bella, all my NET juices are stored in my Steep box, on the bottom shelf of the refrigerator, and the seal isn't broken until I'm ready to vape.

I consider Vita Bella a Desert type juice that has Tobacco, though I haven't tried it fresh, I love the Flan/Custard & Tobacco Flavor & Mouth-feel of the vapor after a 4 month steep.
I crack the seal, shake weekly and store it at room temperature.

 

[ambientech]

I'm not using cotton ( at least yet )... the too little / much part would still apply to silica though.

As for the Android Smart TV dongle... they are really cool but since they are almost the same as my android smartphone ( minus the phone of course )... I sort of knew what to expect already... It's just cool doing it on my TV instead. I have a twofold reason for getting one... the usual personal ones as well as trying one out to see if it is viable for basic business use or not to give my clients other options besides a full blown computer in certain cases.

Hey rdsok long time.

I have a couple KFl's and have never had a metallic taste, but past experience with other RDA's/RBA's has shown it is most likely a hot spot, or not wicking properly. Get some cotton, it is much easier to get a good coil/wick contact with micro coils, plus the flavor is much improved. I will never use silica again because it mutes the flavor and it has a strong distinct taste I can't stand!!

 

[rdsok]

Hey rdsok long time.

I have a couple KFl's and have never had a metallic taste, but past experience with other RDA's/RBA's has shown it is most likely a hot spot, or not wicking properly. Get some cotton, it is much easier to get a good coil/wick contact with micro coils, plus the flavor is much improved. I will never use silica again because it mutes the flavor and it has a strong distinct taste I can't stand!!

Yeah... it has been a while since our paths crossed...

I'm thinking it's a hot spot also... I just didn't remember about that flavor since it had been a while since I had it on a standard coil... I'll move to cotton at some point but I don't taste the silica so I guess I'm not sensitive to that flavor

 

[Chinook]

You're welcome, one thing I failed to mention, my Heat Extraction times are just guidelines and factor in how strong/noticeable the Aroma of the steeped extraction is when I enter the Kitchen.

My Coffee Extraction is the exception, and Time is the Bigger Factor. I believe a Longer Coffee steep may lead to a Bitter taste and limit it to 4 hours maximum on Fresh ground Beans. Recently, billherbst has used Instant Coffee for his Extraction, so my next one will be with Jacobs Cronat Gold, a German Brand I enjoy by the cup on occasion.

ADD; Addressing the NET Reverse Steeping, With the exception of Vita Bella, all my NET juices are stored in my Steep box, on the bottom shelf of the refrigerator, and the seal isn't broken until I'm ready to vape.

I consider Vita Bella a Desert type juice that has Tobacco, though I haven't tried it fresh, I love the Flan/Custard & Tobacco Flavor & Mouth-feel of the vapor after a 4 month steep.
I crack the seal, shake weekly and store it at room temperature.

Thanks again! I will also take the aroma as the guideline. So far I've seen 3 categories for NET extraction:

1) Lower heat, multiple days
2) Higher heat, minutes
3) Room temperature, multiple weeks

I think yours is in #1 category. I'll start my experiments with #2.

Regarding Vita Bella, I have a 20 day old one. I do like it but I just got GJ4 and between the two, I prefer GJ4 so far. I'll let Vita steep though couple of months and see how it progresses.

Cheers

 

[johni]

Quiet in here today. I'm enjoying NET.com Virginia and Perique blend tonight. Their single varietal extractions are great for putting together your own blends. I've made three so far, all excellent vapes.