Natural Tobaccos
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Hmmm so I am currently as my adv using a tobacco blend that states less than 1% diacetyl makes me wonder if I want to continue to use it dang just bought a 30ml bottle over the weekend too :-( but I guess less than 1% isn't too too bad considering all of the microwave popcorn I have consumed over the years lol
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I'm not sure how even making your own flavorings would insure they are diacetyl free (e.g. a result of chemical reaction) unless there had been testing at some point.
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I was referring to Ahlusion. They don't make any egg/custard flavors anyway, but Wlad is maniacal about producing juices that are safe. And his knowledge of the chemistry of flavorings is probably unsurpassed among e-liquid makers.
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The Vendor I use is Dropsmoke and the flavor I like is tobacco. I enjoy the taste of tobacco it has. Once in a while I vape some of their fruity flavors like watermelon lime.
I should have guessed you were referring to Wlad.
It's my understanding he does a lot of testing.There is/was a thread compiling diacetyl free vendors. One thing I've noticed is some of the vendors have removed "diacetyl free" disclaimers from their sites. I wonder if that is due to their use of substitutes and having second thoughts about the disclaimers.
I hope not to bring the wrath of any vendor down on me, but I could understand the dilemma of having a cornerstone juice that would be ruined without a certain flavor. Last I'll say on this as it's off the thread topic.
For me, if a juice I vaped all day contained even trace amounts if diacetyl I would stop vaping it. I'm not sure how much is enough to cause lung damage, but it may be that "less than 1%" may be more than enough.
Keep in mind, we eat diacetyl all the time which isn't considered harmful; it's in butter, margarine, desserts,and a lot of other stuff, it's only considered a harmful substance to the lungs if it's inhaled. The harm inhaling diacetyl can cause is great, including breathing problems, permanent damage to lung tissue, need for a lung transplant, and death.
The reason this whole issue came about, is that the stuff we vape is made from flavorings that are intended to be used in food. For the companies that have been making flavorings for years, diacetyl has been a common ingredient, which when used for it's intended use is safe, but we use them for inhalation. If something is safe to eat but not inhale, eliquid companies have to take the extra step to make sure it's not in the ingredients, which can be a challenge.
I think a big reason that a caramel flavoring MOV was using got looked over is because not many are aware that caramel may be an issue. Butter and custard flavors have been known to be problematic but not so much caramel, I sure didn't know. The company that MOV got the product from claimed it's diacetyl free, so it wasn't discovered until further testing was done by MOV. I think this really goes to show that many juice flavors may contain diacetyl that a vendor doesn't realize, especially when the companies they get the flavorings from claim it's diacetyl free even though it might not be.
So when an eliquid vendor claims their products are diacetyl free, what it really means that it doesn't contain diacetyl as far as they know. The good thing is that more testing is being done on the hundreds of flavorings used to know for sure.
But there lies the problem Jerms, how can we know for sure in spite of the claims from vendors that they are diacetyl free. I for one don't have enough knowledge to test myself. Is there a list anywhere of tested vendors that truly are d free? Or is it basically stay away from all buttery or creamy flavors? Now to find another tobacco juice that I will really like as this is what has curbed my urge for that morning cig
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That is indeed the problem that we can't know for sure as vapers that the ones that claim to be diacetyl free really are. I'm not sure what tests need to be done, but I'm guessing it's expensive and most vendors wouldn't have a way of doing the tests themselves. It helps to stay away from buttery and custard flavors, but now caramel is known to be a possible issue and who knows what else. Each vaper has to decide how careful they are going to be. My choice is I vape the occasional juice that has diacetyl substitutes even though they may have the same issues as diacetyl (occasional being my key word) and as long as a vendor isn't knowingly using diacetyl that's good enough for me, even if that may mean an ingredient could slip by. Some people are more diligent than me and avoid certain flavorings. The most cautious would just be to vape unflavored nic.
With vaping any flavored juice, we are taking unknown risks. Those risks are probably very small, are certainly worlds away from the risks of smoking, but it's still the one area in vaping that makes us sort of like guinnea pigs. Who knows, there may be an ingredient that's being commonly used that causes severe problems 30+ years down the line, we won't know for sure until vaping has been around that long. For me, the small but still possible risks of inhaling flavors isn't much of a concern, and the risk/reward ratio is overwhelmingly toward reward.
With something proven as harmful as diacetyl though, if a vendor says they knowingly use it, there's too much other choices for me to want to take that specific risk. If my only choice was to vape juices that contained known levels of it....... man that would tough because I don't know if I could quit vaping without going back to smoking.
Nick doesn't use any flavoring known to have diacetyl, which is the most you can expect from most vendors. My guess is it's pretty rare for caramel to contain it, but who knows. If you're worried about caramel now you'll want to avoid all RY4s, along with a host of other juices that may contain caramel. One of MOV's juices they removed was the Chai Latte, which I didn't taste caramel in but it did use that flavor.
I really don't think there's much reason to worry about caramel in general unless someone chooses to worry about all flavorings with their potential unknown dangers. At that point vape unflavored if flavoring is causing too much stress.
Well I wanna order devil dog but it's 13 bucks for 15ml 13.50 to be exact. HHV did 4 samples for 10 bucks and well sell 15ml for like 9. Maybe I should have faith in ahlusion might as well order a 30ml bottle. I used to smoke camel wides and marb reds and I'm looking for harsh tobacco taste. Can I be sure I'll like it? I know it's not a lot of money for some but I'm a broke college student
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Do not confuse strong flavor with harshness... they aren't the same.
Devil Dog may not be the best one to start with... it contains Latakia which is an acquired taste. If you are already familiar with and like Latakia... go for it... Otherwise you may want to start with Blue Grass Burley instead which is still strong but liked by a wider number of people.
Devil Dog may not be the best one to start with... it contains Latakia which is an acquired taste. If you are already familiar with and like Latakia... go for it... Otherwise you may want to start with Blue Grass Burley instead which is still strong but liked by a wider number of people.
What is you favorite tobacco liquid so far? DD isn't harsh, and after my last bottle I'd say it's actually somewhat tame(d) compared to the way it was last year--some may say I am imagining it, but some may agree. Maybe try Apache from MOV for a similar flair as DD, but for $8.99 a 15 mL.
Oh, what are you using to vape?
You could always try Fire In The Hole from Quicknicjuice ($8.99 a 15 mL)--that may actually have more of the kind of thing that you're after.
Oh, what's up, y'all???
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Sup J. Hope you had a successful move in this wonderful weather lol. Glad to see you back bud.
I see DarthVapers is still down, my guess permanently unless you have some inside info.
I concur with Mann and Rdsok with their advice Scott. BGB probably more in line with what your looking for and probably a better first aro than tha Dog. If you really want the Dog experience, Apache is pretty damn close from MOV and cheaper. Fire In The Hole from QnJ is a great suggestion too.
Nothing more about DV, but it was likely someone really close to home (if not in house).
Oh yeah, Jerms, it's just around the corner...what? The mother load.
Let me know.
Dang y'all switched subjects. Does HHV use diacetyl? I love me some heavenly tobacco...
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Well, you may want to stay away from their Waffles and x-tra butter!
It's a substitute they use, unless they found the magic potion to get butter flavor without using it (not likely). I don't know what the hell is up with HT, but it's often times going to be a toss-up. You're more than likely fine with HT. I wouldn't worry too much.I wrote this in a post earlier to show the molecular "differences" in a substitute vs. diacetyl:
C4H6O2 (Diacetyl)
C5H8O2 (Acetylpropionyl/2,3 pentanedione--a diacetyl substitute)
When people say "structurally similar," that is a glimpse into what they mean. Any more in-depth discussion on the science behind it should be handled by Kurt (since he is a scientist and has spoken on it) or someone educated in science.
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They didn't really change subjects, your subject is still going... they just multi-task a lot around here... so there can be a number of subjects at any one time going
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