Nearing disaster in New York - please take action NOW to prevent e-cigarette ban.

[HeatherC]

Kids can get their hands on Analogs and Big tobacco hopes that happens. Did they mention that at this Assembly meeting? NO. So dont ban analogs, just the safer ones. Also note that that terrible Chemical that really stupid lady was talking about is in Asthma Inhalers, do kids use those? YES. Mouth wash, Tooth paste, yes they get spit out but some still gets swallowed. Hair Spray, (goes in the air and is inhaled) Thats ok too, did they mention that, NOPE! Do doctors apporve of ecigs? did you ever see the show called The Doctors? They promoted it and they are DOCTORS!!! My doctor said tell me how to show this to my other smoking patients. That idiot that said he was a smoker but said his 11 year old Nephew can get it too, LIAR. If he were a smoker and he switched we all know he would not be against us. If his 11 year old Nephew can get his hands on them, then spank that kid, DONT SPANK US!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with all of this post... And I really think more kids need spankings today!! (NOT abuse... just spank em!)

 

[DaDuke]

Next Vapefest in D.C. in front of The White House? That'd be awesome.

Now that is a great idea and a good way to get national attention on the subject. I would definitely attend that.

You know that this terrible chemical that is used in the liquid is the same as the base liquid for asthma inhalers, do kids use asthma inhalers? I think so. I was using them in HS when I was 15. Used in Mouth wash, food, aerosol cans, u name it, but this Assembly didnt, how convenient!!!

The problem as I see it is there isn't any mechanism to have opposing viewpoints aired before voting on these issues they know nothing about. They are lazy, don't do due diligence to get all the facts and vote based on 2 proponants for banning. It infuriates me that they get away with regulating ADULTS and supposedly free Americans on basically a whim and misinformation.

I'm amazed at how far this country has degenerated. It no longer requires harm to be proven to ban something from supposedly free Americans. Even if harm is proven it should be weighed against the alternatives to determine which is less harmful. Beyond that, as FREE people we should be able to determine how to live our lives as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of other free Americans. I believe that's covered in the constitution under "the pursuit of happiness".

What happened to the American spirit of "give me liberty or give me death"? The founding fathers would roll in their graves at the sight of modern America. /rantoff

 

[v1John]

New York lawmakers seem to have laws that enable them to make tons of money, ... you gotta help pay their salary.

Legislative Salaries Per State

...

This is why cigarettes are $11 a pack in New York.

 

[HeatherC]

Now that is a great idea and a good way to get national attention on the subject. I would definitely attend that.

The problem as I see it is there isn't any mechanism to have opposing viewpoints aired before voting on these issues they know nothing about. They are lazy, don't do due diligence to get all the facts and vote based on 2 proponants for banning. It infuriates me that they get away with regulating ADULTS and supposedly free Americans on basically a whim and misinformation.

I'm amazed at how far this country has degenerated. It no longer requires harm to be proven to ban something from supposedly free Americans. Even if harm is proven it should be weighed against the alternatives to determine which is less harmful. Beyond that, as FREE people we should be able to determine how to live our lives as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of other free Americans. I believe that's covered in the constitution under "the pursuit of happiness".

What happened to the American spirit of "give me liberty or give me death"? The founding fathers would roll in their graves at the sight of modern America. /rantoff

The worst part is that they actually APPROVE things that kill too

 

[Beyondcr]

so what needs to be done to stop all bans??? do we need more advertisement or what. Get on your local news and let the world know!

 

[IndieVisible]

I fail to see why there would be a ban on sales. I can see a ban similar to cigarettes. But not on sales. What justification would there be if cigarettes are still available?

What message would that be?

hey we would rather have you die of lung cancer then let you enjoy smoking with out all the risks?!

 

[DC2]

I fail to see why there would be a ban on sales. I can see a ban similar to cigarettes. But not on sales. What justification would there be if cigarettes are still available?

The "ban" would be the removal of electronic cigarettes from the market if the FDA wins the court case in which they are currently attempting to define them as a drug delivery device.

Once removed from the market they could only be allowed once a company has followed the lengthy and very expensive process to introduce an FDA approved drug to the market.

What message would that be?

hey we would rather have you die of lung cancer then let you enjoy smoking with out all the risks?!

Yes, that would be the message.

 

[crashinbrn]

so what needs to be done to stop all bans??? do we need more advertisement or what. Get on your local news and let the world know!

this is a good place to start.

 

[kristin]

You know that this terrible chemical that is used in the liquid is the same as the base liquid for asthma inhalers, do kids use asthma inhalers? I think so. I was using them in HS when I was 15. Used in Mouth wash, food, aerosol cans, u name it, but this Assembly didnt, how convenient!!!

Also note that that terrible Chemical that really stupid lady was talking about is in Asthma Inhalers, do kids use those? YES. Mouth wash, Tooth paste, yes they get spit out but some still gets swallowed. Hair Spray, (goes in the air and is inhaled) Thats ok too, did they mention that, NOPE!

OK, you guys need to stop confusing the toxic chemical found by the FDA - diethylene glycol - with the base of e-cigarette liquid - propylene glycol.

The anti-freeze chemical she was referring to was DIETHYLENE glycol. It was found at approximately 1% in one of the cartridges tested by the FDA.

By continuing the confusion between the two, you cause people to think that e-cigarettes are made with diethylene glycol or just sound uninformed by arguing that diethylene glycol is typically used to produce mouthwash and toothpaste. Those products contain PROPYLENE glycol, not diethylene glycol. The toothpaste that caused all of the concern contained high amounts of diethylene glycol and that is why they were taken off the market and warnings issued.

If you want to make an argument about the DIETHYLENE glycol being found, point out that:

1. It was only found in one cartridge and no other contaminated cartridges have been found to date.

2. It was found in the liquid, not the vapor we are exposed to.

3. That e-cigarette liquid is vaporized and the cartridge used over one to two days and not ingested all at once like gums or lozenges.

4. That it's important to remember that the danger is in the QUANTITY. That even though there shouldn't be ANY diethylene glycol, the FDA actually allows for certain amounts of diethylene glycol to be found in products containing propylene glycol - about .01% per gram, if I remember correctly. So if it's ok for those products, why the concern for e-cigarettes?

4. At approximately 1% in a cartridge, that would only be toxic if you actually drank the entire contents of several cartridges (I believe 3-6% is considered toxic for adults) - which then you'd actually be poisoned by the nicotine before the DEG got to you.

5. Additionally, if diethylene glycol were actually found at toxic levels in all e-cigarette liquid, over the past 2 years there would have been numerous reports of DEG poisoning from e-cigarette use and there have been no such reports to date.

 

[DaDuke]

Ok, so if e-cigs were sold as personal vaporizers with flavored 0 nic carts how could they ban that? PG and VG Juices could all be sold with flavors but 0 nic. Another supplier could sell pg and vg bottles at around 36 and 48 mg nic strength, unflavored and advertized as an eco friendly crop insect repellent which nicotine is already used for. What you do with the 3 products would be out of the control of the distributor/manufacturers and the "specified approved use" of those products.

Simply mix em up to get your 18-24 strengths at full flavor. As far as i can tell it's the nic in the juice that is at issue from a legal point of view. Without the nic it's no longer a "drug delivery system".

Where am I wrong?

 

[IndieVisible]

Is this the same type of ban Illinios tried but failed or would this be national?

Either way we could still buy from other countries would be difficult to track.

I just can't see it happening. Not a all out ban.

When will they decide?

Has the tobacco company have every politician in their pockets?

 

[Little Girl]

Ok, so if e-cigs were sold as personal vaporizers with flavored 0 nic carts how could they ban that?

Because the way they see it, they're banning it as a potential drug delivery system.

What disgusts me about this is that paper money is also a potential drug delivery system, but you don't see them banning it. Paper money is used to deliver illegal drugs into the nostrils of people so often that we're informed that our exposure through the ordinary handling of money on a daily basis is enough to show up in trace amounts on drug tests and is dismissed as acceptable/expected amounts of exposure in the test results.

PG and VG Juices could all be sold with flavors but 0 nic. Another supplier could sell pg and vg bottles at around 36 and 48 mg nic strength, unflavored and advertized as an eco friendly crop insect repellent which nicotine is already used for. What you do with the 3 products would be out of the control of the distributor/manufacturers and the "specified approved use" of those products.

I love this idea. Totally Wicked offers a laser pointer and pen light as a replacement for the atomizer in your e-cigarette. This makes it so that the battery has an "innocent" use that has nothing to do with 8-o drug delivery. Now if only someone would come up with an "innocent" use for the atomizer and cartridge, we'd be golden. As you said, what we do with the products is out of the control of the distributors/manufacturers.

 

[warbdan]

Let them try to ban e-cigs. I, for one, refuse to stop even if they do succeed. Stand for something or fall for everything, right?

 

[jimho]

I love this idea. Totally Wicked offers a laser pointer and pen lightas a replacement for the atomizer in your e-cigarette. This makes it so that the battery has an "innocent" use that has nothing to do with 8-o drug delivery. Now if only someone would come up with an "innocent" use for the atomizer and cartridge, we'd be golden. As you said, what we do with the products is out of the control of the distributors/manufacturers.

How about a minature fog machine for your terrarium ...

 

[jons]

Like everyone else this does bother me. I can't say I have an issue with banning them from minors. I think we should all be concerned with that. I also think it would be a good idea that the fda gets involved in this. Simply to assure that the ingredinates are monitor. I have to admit, it is a little concerning the idea that people are mixing this themselves and selling it. How are we to know that they know what they are doing and it wont harm us? I do not think it should be banned from adults considering that there are many things you can buy that are not approved by the fda and are still on the market for sale. I think our best bet is it push for the fda to get in there and approve these as fast as possible.

 

[jimho]

Like everyone else this does bother me. I can't say I have an issue with banning them from minors. I think we should all be concerned with that. I also think it would be a good idea that the fda gets involved in this. Simply to assure that the ingredinates are monitor. I have to admit, it is a little concerning the idea that people are mixing this themselves and selling it. How are we to know that they know what they are doing and it wont harm us? I do not think it should be banned from adults considering that there are many things you can buy that are not approved by the fda and are still on the market for sale. I think our best bet is it push for the fda to get in there and approve these as fast as possible.

Therein lies the problem... The FDA doesn't have a bunch of guys sitting around a lab wearing wite coats testing everything that shows up on the market. Getting the FDA to approve something requires research, clinical trials etc. and costs a tremendous amount of $ up front. Then it has to be consolidated, submitted and goes thorough a legal process where the FDA reviews the submission ... this is a cottage industry with individuals having the ability to buy, build and configure devices almost at will. Most of the hardware we use is manufactured in China, juice comes from all over the world and can be mixed in your basement etc.

The alternative is pretty much the route we're on now where the FDA makes some claim (ususally politcally driven) to categorize a product or that a product is unsafe and then tries to regulate it... then you go to court to fight it .....

 

[jons]

All in all if we can not monitor these items and keep them out of the hands of children.... then someone else will and we can't blame them for that.

 

[crashinbrn]

All in all if we can not monitor these items and keep them out of the hands of children.... then someone else will and we can't blame them for that.

i understand the reasons to keep them away from kids and i wholeheartedly agree but, i have yet to see a kid carrying one, or a place that is marketing them to kids. and i don't think we will see it either.

what i will have a problem with is the parent that knowingly allows their kid to walk around a mall(where e-cigs are sold in some places) with enough money to purchase one, UNSUPERVISED. i doubt the kiosk in the mall would sell it to them as the e-cig is marketed to committed adult smokers(like myself). and i would have a big problem with the one that did sell it to a kid.

 

[Kobudo]

I also think it would be a good idea that the fda gets involved in this. Simply to assure that the ingredinates are monitor.

The FDA has recently showed that they are incapable of keeping e. coli out of produce. Or DEG out of imported toothpaste. Or drugs that don't kill consumers out of pharmacies. In all cases, the suppliers of these goods failed regardless of FDA oversight. With the latter, the failure is approved by the FDA during what is supposed to be a rigorous scientific review process.

Sorry, but I have no confidence in the FDA to offer anything but the illusion of safety.

Now if some supplier somewhere were to accidentally introduce toxins to their e-liquid, finding out quickly and being able to properly dispose of affected supplies would be a good thing... but somebody always gets to find out first, the hard way.

 

[Little Girl]

How about a minature fog machine for your terrarium ...

Ooooh, a terrarium - that's a good use for one of those gallon pickle jars we have sitting around here... Actually, that would be pretty cool. Create a creepy looking terrarium with a miniature graveyard in it for Halloween and then fog it.