New Atomizer Prototype

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jxmiller

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Oct 13, 2009
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I'm not sure if I'm just a real lightweight when it comes to vaping, but I've never gotten the outside of the atomizer to be more than slightly warm, even after a long pull. But as I said in my reply to Dan's comment, the bottle/container could be easily flipped around.

From your diagram your mouth is ... 1mm - 2mm distance from the nichrome coil. Ever try to put your lips around the metal housing of your e-cig parallel to where the atomizer is? That does get hot.

I really like your idea here. It really makes replacing the atomizer extremely easy, plus allows for a large amount of juice to be contained within.
 

roadkilldeluxe

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Sep 23, 2009
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From your diagram your mouth is ... 1mm - 2mm distance from the nichrome coil. Ever try to put your lips around the metal housing of your e-cig parallel to where the atomizer is? That does get hot.

I really like your idea here. It really makes replacing the atomizer extremely easy, plus allows for a large amount of juice to be contained within.

I believe you guys, but I've honestly never felt that on my 510. I once put my mouth around the air intake holes, pressed the button, and blew through them to see if vapor would come out of the mouthpiece. Felt a little warm but not hot even though the entire thing was in my mouth. :)

At any rate, I'm trying to develop the design further (i.e., sitting in class bored out of my mind), and I will be using the standard orientation for now. At least until I find out how hot the new atomizer gets. :D

I'm hoping to use Moktarino's new atomizer design with my delivery system idea... just bought some glass online today.
 
Hi guys im pleased to announce that im joining the team on this design process. Ive got a joye 510 on the way and my sampler of jc juice just arrived. This topic is really what pushed me over the edge to purchase an ecig in the first place. I only smoke cigs on occasion but I am a moderate chewer at around a tin every week or so, but the reason I got an ecig is I am just amazed by the device itself. I am studying to be a mechanical engineer focusing mostly on computer aided design and i just love the simplicity of it and the almost unlimited opportunities for mods. Ive got an idea but im going to sit back for a bit and examine the real thing before i start suggesting things.

Woods
 

roadkilldeluxe

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Sep 23, 2009
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Hi guys im pleased to announce that im joining the team on this design process. Ive got a joye 510 on the way and my sampler of jc juice just arrived. This topic is really what pushed me over the edge to purchase an ecig in the first place. I only smoke cigs on occasion but I am a moderate chewer at around a tin every week or so, but the reason I got an ecig is I am just amazed by the device itself. I am studying to be a mechanical engineer focusing mostly on computer aided design and i just love the simplicity of it and the almost unlimited opportunities for mods. Ive got an idea but im going to sit back for a bit and examine the real thing before i start suggesting things.

Woods

Yeah, I was a pretty light smoker myself (4-5 a day), and unfortunately I am addicted yet again after a few weeks completely free. Fortunately, engineering it is fun and hopefully once we get something I'll have more of a reason to go back to only vaping.

Feel free to post or PM me your idea... but playing with the real thing will make a difference. I was the same way before I actually got mine. Anyway, welcome! I look forward to hearing your ideas.

edit: You can't post links until you have 15 posts. It's annoying... but if you need to share a link before then just take out the http://www part when posting it.
 

jxmiller

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Oct 13, 2009
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Hi guys im pleased to announce that im joining the team on this design process. Ive got a joye 510 on the way and my sampler of jc juice just arrived. This topic is really what pushed me over the edge to purchase an ecig in the first place. I only smoke cigs on occasion but I am a moderate chewer at around a tin every week or so, but the reason I got an ecig is I am just amazed by the device itself. I am studying to be a mechanical engineer focusing mostly on computer aided design and i just love the simplicity of it and the almost unlimited opportunities for mods. Ive got an idea but im going to sit back for a bit and examine the real thing before i start suggesting things.

Woods


The more the merrier. I am not the smartest guy in the world and most of my ideas thus far have probably not been all that great. I say post it no matter what. It may inspire (like it did you) others to join in the brainstorming we have going on here.
 

jacko

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Sep 25, 2009
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The more the merrier. I am not the smartest guy in the world and most of my ideas thus far have probably not been all that great. I say post it no matter what. It may inspire (like it did you) others to join in the brainstorming we have going on here.

I second that. Brainstorming is about the most ideas you can come up with, and no idea should be excluded as being 'bad'. Even the dumbest sounding allows others to piggy-back off of the concept.
So go ahead with the ideas, even if they sound ridiculous.
Welcome to the jungle.
 

moktarino

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Oct 14, 2009
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I believe you guys, but I've honestly never felt that on my 510. I once put my mouth around the air intake holes, pressed the button, and blew through them to see if vapor would come out of the mouthpiece. Felt a little warm but not hot even though the entire thing was in my mouth. :)

At any rate, I'm trying to develop the design further (i.e., sitting in class bored out of my mind), and I will be using the standard orientation for now. At least until I find out how hot the new atomizer gets. :D

I'm hoping to use Moktarino's new atomizer design with my delivery system idea... just bought some glass online today.

The neat thing about these tubes is that you can melt them with a standard lighter. I've been doing that to spare them the blowtorch, but they don't melt as nicely. Maybe I could build some sort of guard out of metal to better direct the heat and hit only the glass bits and not the leads.

That's the next issue, the weak points are the leads coming out of the glass. I've been experimenting with using copper for this, but it's not promising. I used 24ga copper wire inside the tube and it quickly broke the glass surrounding it due to expansion coefficient. I think it has a better time with the nichrome because it's smaller and can absorb the stress without cracking, but the 24ga was just too much.
 

roadkilldeluxe

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Sep 23, 2009
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That's the next issue, the weak points are the leads coming out of the glass. I've been experimenting with using copper for this, but it's not promising. I used 24ga copper wire inside the tube and it quickly broke the glass surrounding it due to expansion coefficient. I think it has a better time with the nichrome because it's smaller and can absorb the stress without cracking, but the 24ga was just too much.

crip posted some information a bit back on metal-to-glass seals. One that you might be interested in is thin copper tubes. You could possibly even crimp the Nichrome within. Since it's a hollow cylinder it can absorb more of the force against the glass (hopefully!).

The thermal expansion of Nichrome is 13.4ppm/C while Copper is 17ppm/C. They're fairly close so I'm guessing the main problem with the current setup is the gage of the copper.

Based on 38ga nichrome and 24ga copper, the nichrome expands by 1.3837*10^-6 mm/C and the copper will expand by 8.687*10^-6 mm/C (that's a factor of 6.28).

Hope this helps, I'm off to ebay, google, and amazon to look for info on tiny copper tubing.... :)
 

Ashhead

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Oct 15, 2009
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Hey guys, Eric the neon bender gave me some examples of wire with almost no resistance crimped in glass. He cooled them in a pan of stuff that looked like kitty litter. He said slow cooling was the key to avoid breakage. I have 4 roughly 3/8" ID tubes he crimped closed around some tie wire for neon. If anyone is interested, PM me and I can take pics or send via mail. He is willing to make "glass elements", for lack of a better term" or anything else we might need.

Roadkill, I think one of the keys to a better design is to create a vaccum to draw the e-juice to the heat source, Put a tip on the glass and you have an insulating cooling area.
I like M's pyrex experiments too. He seems to be on the right track.

I should have the materials for my experiment next week, Eric supplied me with the glass chambers, the rest will be mechanical build...
 

Scottbee

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Sep 18, 2009
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An interesting aside:

I was doing some patent research into PV's (more than a hobby....).

Many of the things that have been discussed here and elsewhere... micro-piezo droplet control of the e-liquid, Tinel memory-metal release of e-liquid.. capsules.. etc.. have already been investigated and to some extent patented by Ruyan. Hon, Lik (Ruyan) has patents and patent applications on these items going back to 2003. There is some very interesting reading in some of these patents (user information displays.. etc..).

Makes me hope or believe that a better generation of PV's is on the horizon.
 

roadkilldeluxe

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Sep 23, 2009
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Hey guys, Eric the neon bender gave me some examples of wire with almost no resistance crimped in glass. He cooled them in a pan of stuff that looked like kitty litter. He said slow cooling was the key to avoid breakage. I have 4 roughly 3/8" ID tubes he crimped closed around some tie wire for neon. If anyone is interested, PM me and I can take pics or send via mail. He is willing to make "glass elements", for lack of a better term" or anything else we might need.

Roadkill, I think one of the keys to a better design is to create a vaccum to draw the e-juice to the heat source, Put a tip on the glass and you have an insulating cooling area.
I like M's pyrex experiments too. He seems to be on the right track.

I should have the materials for my experiment next week, Eric supplied me with the glass chambers, the rest will be mechanical build...

A picture of the these would be nice :)

Could you please elaborate on the vacuum idea?

Glad to hear you were successful with locating materials, we need more people doing more experiments! Don't forget to post all of your results! And with pictures! :D

An interesting aside:

I was doing some patent research into PV's (more than a hobby....).

Many of the things that have been discussed here and elsewhere... micro-piezo droplet control of the e-liquid, Tinel memory-metal release of e-liquid.. capsules.. etc.. have already been investigated and to some extent patented by Ruyan. Hon, Lik (Ruyan) has patents and patent applications on these items going back to 2003. There is some very interesting reading in some of these patents (user information displays.. etc..).

Makes me hope or believe that a better generation of PV's is on the horizon.

kinabaloo has posted many times the suggestion that we use piezo droplet control (like an inkjet printer does). I have not heard of Tinel memory-metal though. Did you find anything cool that also sounds doable as a DIY project? :D
 
Wow! These are some stimulating ideas y'all. I don't pretend to be anything other than someone who enjoys puzzling but if y'all don't mind I'd like to lurk around and pose a few thoughts as these projects progress.

As for myself, there is nothing I can't over-engineer. When I design things I tryyyy to mantra the classic "Form follows function" and "The fewer parts the fewer potential problems", and I still overkill. Drats. But I ain't afraid of no steenking drawing board!

In order to mod I'd have to constantly remind myself that my bottom line aim is proper vapor temps delivered in pleasing amounts. Major bonus points for any extended batt, e-liquid, etc., lifetimes beyond what is out there now. Which is why I came here... to see y'all's approach. I have a niggling feeling you can't have it all ways, but that it can be done much better.

OK, I read every thread post (I think) and these thoughts spring to mind:

On the glass mod, what vapor temps are coming off the models that have been cracking and can burn cotton? May just be an issue of too much heat within the mod. If the vapor temps are too high the problem might be approached by shortening the coil length one half twist at a time until the glass ceased to crack and checking the vapor temps at that point. But it seems to me that if the vapor temp range and glass sustainability temp range can hold hands at some point (even if it needs different glass) it's very workable. At any rate, I think this is a cooool idea.

Now, the other possible solution is after my own heart as I do woodburning. My first thought was it'd be wayyyy too hot, like, 900F. Then I realized my units plug into a wall and battery powered would be a whole nuther critter.

This woke up my other brain cell to recall that when I first wanted to woodburn years ago I bought a battery powered ColdHeat soldering iron. Knowing how I drift and can drop things I was going for safety. I pressed the button, put it too the wood and zilch. Nowhere had I seen them say it needed a third contact made of metal (solder) to complete the circuit. Turns out it was even a crummy soldering iron! That'll teach me to listen to info-mercials.

But I am now wondering if the concept may be just what the doctor ordered. It does heat up and go cold on demand as they claim. It uses more than one bat and still isn't much larger than some mods I've seen so it might be a shrinkable device.

Basically, It has a tip like a deer hoof made of graphite-ish material, with a midslot wafer of mica so they don't bump and set off accidentally. The tip is frail but works. So, I'm thinking use metal woodburning tip rods, only somehow split into two pieces, then have a non-heating button (to avoid finger burns) that forces a small metal piece to make the connection.

Anyhow, worth thinking on for the speed of heat and cooling, although without the graphite the time would be less dramatic, I'm sure. The main drawback I see is that the ColdHeat does have a small circuit board built in but maybe y'all can figure out something different to make the idea feasible. The forum Howstuffworks will show y'all the guts of the thing. Perhaps, you may find it of use in some capacity for your modding adventures.

Returning forum to the brains,

Genie
 

Ashhead

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Oct 15, 2009
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Central Pennsylvania, USA
A picture of the these would be nice :)

Could you please elaborate on the vacuum idea?

Glad to hear you were successful with locating materials, we need more people doing more experiments! Don't forget to post all of your results! And with pictures! :D



kinabaloo has posted many times the suggestion that we use piezo droplet control (like an inkjet printer does). I have not heard of Tinel memory-metal though. Did you find anything cool that also sounds doable as a DIY project? :D

I got my camera back, I'll see if I can post some pics tomorrow.
 
Thanks for the welcome and the link. It's pretty difficult at this late stage of the game to know if something has been touched on before, even tho I try to read at least two complete threads a day. But seeing the Dual Heat was gratifying in that I've never seen one of my kooky, off-the-top-of-my-head ideas working the very next day. GMTA. It really tickled me and more power to him.

I wonder if Google and the search engines of the www weren't so saturated with worthless debris... or say I spoke German, what ideas might I find from modders around the world. Even as I write this I can't help but think there's at least 1 person in every nation at their workbench right now tinkering on their holy grail version of vaping. One (or two) of them will succeed and become rich. But it won't be me. LOL.

I just have a brain that needs a lot of distraction. Last night's insomnia distraction was again about form. Size/weight/shape. If you didn't care about form the problems, though each e-cig section has them, would be easy. Folks will probably always carry cig-form units out in the world but use the "real deal" at home. Unless someone whips the battery issue and other frustration factors ingeniously, public-use units will probably end up closer to cigar size, as that'll be the trade-off for better function.

I foresee that eventually, the end of the line "best" vaporizer probably will be home units that have left the whole cigarette look way behind, be more pipe sized and perhaps resemble an antique torture device in looks. LOL.

Barring a batt breakthrough, there are two design paths. Those who fix the cig looking concept will make a boatload of money and those who perfect the larger hot-rod type could become very comfortable.

When I have time and bucks to mod I'll take the second path for space reasons. I can envision a section that sprayed the liquid in droplets onto Dan's ceramic heat source from an "on-demand" reservoir of liquid for massive vapor at lower temps...

... again for less refilling you could invent something like a 38 revolver where chambers of liquid clicked around the cartomizer and as they turned slots lined up one at a time to give a perfect top off or total refill...

... I even see a day coming where the nic drop is encapsulated in a thin PG cover like a gelcap, and you just pop them in for an analogue's worth of relief...

Anyway, someone in Brussels is screaming Eureka! as I type this.

I'll be offline for a few days but will check back in to see how y'all are progressing soon as I can. These two projects are fascinating.

Day late and a dollar short (but having fun)

Genie
 
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