New FDA regulations and effect on DIY?

[Spazmelda]

I placed an order for 500 ml 100mg/ml nic right after the deeming regulations came out. Then I checked my freezer stock. I have appx 3600 ml of 100 mg/ml nicotine (including the new order), most of it unopened. At my current rate that would last about 20 years if it were to stay good that long. Hopefully by that time (when I am in my 70s, lol) people will have come to their senses. I've also just ordered another e-cig and 2 more tanks. Sigh. This sucks.

I've been thinking that if I was the lawless type, this would be a great time to get into mixing for the black market. You could buy pure nic from shady sources and make a killing. Not that I'm going to do that. There's no way, but someone will. Doesn't matter if they mix in their toilet, they will make gobs of money.

 

[Capt.shay]

I've been thinking that if I was the lawless type, this would be a great time to get into mixing for the black market. You could buy pure nic from shady sources and make a killing. Not that I'm going to do that. There's no way, but someone will. Doesn't matter if they mix in their toilet, they will make gobs of money.

It had started already with some states raising taxes so high it was prohibitive. You bunker stores are only a fraction of what many have and I don't think any of them are going to worry about being a moonshiner on this one. The FDA has just made a bunch of shady people a lot of money.

 

[Andromendous]

Ive sent this to every business i can think of



Im sure you are aware of the fda regulations going on, I hope you have some plans on fighting for our right to vape. I believe it is up to shops like your own, that can give us a fighting chance. Please watch this video, it has some good suggestions on what we can do at this point. Thank you for your wonderful shop and warm hearts.

 

[sofarsogood]

Agreed. Nic is the item that's most likely to become difficult to obtain for DIY mixing.

I decided months ago to stockpile but take my time about it and make part of the hobby figuring out the smartest way to do it. Now that the Death Star is overhead there should be more threads on that topic. I got a 10 year supply of nic early on just so I could sleep better and get experience lliving with that. I've been slower about adding mods and atomizers. Now I know I could spend the rest of my days vaping an SV rda atomizer and the istick Pico or vtc mini mods but why buy more of those if there is 2 years left to go--unless there isn't 2 years left to go.

I sense the anti vaping people are gloating and feeling their power. I think it will be hard for them to resist speeding things up if they can.

 

[Rossum]

I sense the anti vaping people are gloating and feeling their power. I think it will be hard for them to resist speeding things up if they can.

I'm surprised it took them as long as it did. We've gotten a solid year more than I thought we had when the dooming regs were formally proposed in April of 2014. I think it's possible that some of the people at the FDA understand the truth, and have stalled things as much as possible in light of the pressure that's been applied to them by their masters.

 

[Pamawoman]

So if I vape around 15ml of premixed juice at 12 mg of nicotine how much nicotine should I buy to last 20 years and should it be premixed with VG , pg, or a half and half mixture. I am ordering all my vapeageddon stuff on Monday and want to make sure I order enough but not too much. If I am lucky and the 35+ years of smoking hasn't done too much damage I might live another 30 years. So base it on 30 years of consumption. I will be new to dyi so I am hoping you can help me with this.

 

[Spazmelda]

12 mg/ml * 15 ml = 180 mg/day
180 mg/day * 365 days/year * 20 years = 1,324,000 mg/20 years
1,324,000 mg / 100mg/ml = 13,240 ml
13,240 ml / 1000 ml/L = 13 Liters (100 mg/ml)

I think that's right

But, you can also take into account that you can reduce your nicotine level as you go. I started at 24 mg/ml and I'm down to 5 mg/ml now.

I'll double check my math and update if I made a mistake.

Oh, to clarify... you are using 15 ml a day (?!?)

 

[gmoney$]

Probably a lot of folks are looking into DIY liquid now that the deeming regs have dropped. If you are considering DIY liquid as a strategy to protect your vaping long term, here is what I would suggest for the hesitant potential DIYer intimidated by the complicated recipes and procedures discussed here on ecf:

1) It really all comes down to the base. Go look at nude nicotine dot com or wizard labs or similar and see how base nicotine is offered for sale. You choose your mix of PG and VG and of course select the strength. Laying some nicotine base by in the freezer for long term is a key part of readiness. Even if you aren't yet ready to make the DIY leap yet, this step is crucial.
2) The first vendor I listed above has more expensive options for long term storage including argon gas and amber bottles; get these if you can afford it.
3) IMO is it not necessary to go right to the 100 mg/ml strength right away. Consider a strength that is divisible evenly by your preferred strengh level. Say you like 9 mg. If you got base nic at 36 mg, you simply add one part base and three parts VG/PG to get 9, since 36 divided by four is 9. Nevermind those who would make elaborate calulations to accommodate the flavoring -- back off a tiny bit on the VG/PG is you like. I like to ignore it. Note that working with 100mg/ml strength base requires gloves, eye protection, etc. At 36, you be careful and wipe any base that you get on your hands. Obviously 100mg/ml makes more juice for less volume, but no need to jump to the 100.
3) Buy concentrated flavors rather than trying to mix a complicated recipe using a large selection of individual flavors. These are complete flavor recipes/combinations you simply add to your nic base once you have diluted it to your target strength. Using these concentrated flavors pretty much eliminates the complicated "10% of this and 4.5% of that" to "dilute your base to desired strength, drop a few drops of flavor in till it tastes good. Some vendors of concentrated flavors include mom and pop vapor dot com and nude nicotine dot com. Both have great recipes.
4) Taste and enjoy unflavored juice! before adding flavor, try it unflavored. VG and especially PG is sweet. Down the line, unflavored may be all we have access to. Not so bad!

The stash of bottles you have laying around will get you started for materials. You can upgrade to better "lab" equipment later. Good luck!

 

[cousinles]

And just because companies have to send in there products to be approved and spend loads of money at that. What happens if the fda decides to not approve antlything but a disposable ecig

 

[Rossum]

So if I vape around 15ml of premixed juice at 12 mg of nicotine how much nicotine should I buy to last 20 years and should it be premixed with VG , pg, or a half and half mixture. I am ordering all my vapeageddon stuff on Monday and want to make sure I order enough but not too much. If I am lucky and the 35+ years of smoking hasn't done too much damage I might live another 30 years. So base it on 30 years of consumption. I will be new to dyi so I am hoping you can help me with this.

For 30 years, you'll need about 20 liters.

There is some debate whether PG or VG is better for long term storage. I'm leaning towards VG due to its higher viscosity. Unless you're buying something like Nude Armor, you'll want to re-bottle in glass. GlassBottleOutlet down in Sebring has good selection.

 

[sofarsogood]

So if I vape around 15ml of premixed juice at 12 mg of nicotine how much nicotine should I buy to last 20 years and should it be premixed with VG , pg, or a half and half mixture. I am ordering all my vapeageddon stuff on Monday and want to make sure I order enough but not too much. If I am lucky and the 35+ years of smoking hasn't done too much damage I might live another 30 years. So base it on 30 years of consumption. I will be new to dyi so I am hoping you can help me with this.

The smoke from one cigarette yeilds 1 mg of nic but we all seem to vape more nic than we smoked. A 1 liter $50 bottle of 100 mg nic has 100,000 mg of nic ,the same as the smoke from 5,000 packs of cigarettes.

15 ml of liquid X 12mg of nic = 180 mg per day. 100,000 mg of nic / 180 = 555 days, a bit less than a year and a half per bottle. There is some consensus that nic should go 10 years in the freezer. It will probably go longer but may be it's never been tried. Your goal might require a dedicated freezer. I vape less nic than you and have decided to plan for 10 15 years.

Something we wish we knew is how many clicks the fire button on a good mod is likely to last. The puff counter and puff timer on my vtc mini teaches me I do about 700 clicks a day. That's 250,000 clicks per year so to go 4 years the fire button would have to be good for a million clicks. That's a lot of clicks.

 

[Spazmelda]

And just because companies have to send in there products to be approved and spend loads of money at that. What happens if the fda decides to not approve antlything but a disposable ecig

IMO, that is 100% what is going to happen. Doom and gloom, so sorry!

 

[Pamawoman]

For 30 years, you'll need about 20 liters.

There is some debate whether PG or VG is better for long term storage. I'm leaning towards VG due to its higher viscosity. Unless you're buying something like Nude Armor, you'll want to re-bottle in glass. GlassBottleOutlet down in Sebring has good selection.

I was planning on either nude nic or wizard labs. Wizard is in my hood and they said I could pick up from there lab if I ordered online. Thank you for the info. I guess I'll have to get as much as I can for now and hope this mess changes.

 

[Pamawoman]

The smoke from one cigarette yeilds 1 mg of nic but we all seem to vape more nic than we smoked. A 1 liter $50 bottle of 100 mg nic has 100,000 mg of nic ,the same as the smoke from 5,000 packs of cigarettes.

15 ml of liquid X 12mg of nic = 180 mg per day. 100,000 mg of nic / 180 = 555 days, a bit less than a year and a half per bottle. There is some consensus that nic should go 10 years in the freezer. It will probably go longer but may be it's never been tried. Your goal might require a dedicated freezer. I vape less nic than you and have decided to plan for 10 15 years.

Something we wish we knew is how many clicks the fire button on a good mod is likely to last. The puff counter and puff timer on my vtc mini teaches me I do about 700 clicks a day. That's 250,000 clicks per year so to go 4 years the fire button would have to be good for a million clicks. That's a lot of clicks.

Thank you for the info. Now at least I'll have something to vape but your right about how long the buttons or my automatic batteries will last.

 

[Spazmelda]

I use mostly Wizard Labs and haven't had any problem with them. I don't know where nicotine is going to fall in this 90 day to 2 year thing. I find it hard to believe that the FDA will continue to allow regular consumers to purchase nicotine online as we have been doing, but where this falls in the timeline has me scratching my head.

 

[Pamawoman]

12 mg/ml * 15 ml = 180 mg/day
180 mg/day * 365 days/year * 20 years = 1,324,000 mg/20 years
1,324,000 mg / 100mg/ml = 13,240 ml
13,240 ml / 1000 ml/L = 13 Liters (100 mg/ml)

I think that's right

But, you can also take into account that you can reduce your nicotine level as you go. I started at 24 mg/ml and I'm down to 5 mg/ml now.

I'll double check my math and update if I made a mistake.

Oh, to clarify... you are using 15 ml a day (?!?)

Well I started at 36 WTA and have slowly gone down to 12mg no WTA. As far as 15 ml maybe? I vape all day long. Maybe not that much, but it can't hurt to go high. LOL

 

[Spazmelda]

Well I started at 36 WTA and have slowly gone down to 12mg no WTA. As far as 15 ml maybe? I vape all day long. Maybe not that much, but it can't hurt to go high. LOL

Right better to over estimate than under. Good luck!

 

[sofarsogood]

I use mostly Wizard Labs and haven't had any problem with them. I don't know where nicotine is going to fall in this 90 day to 2 year thing. I find it hard to believe that the FDA will continue to allow regular consumers to purchase nicotine online as we have been doing, but where this falls in the timeline has me scratching my head.

How does the FDA decide who can buy nic concentrate and who cannot? They would have to license suppliers and companies that mix for resale. That would take time to set up. What would be the criteria for who gets licenses? There are more problems. If they ban shops mixing their own many would go out of business. If they also ban mail order or make it too hard most people would have no place to get vaping products. In the mean time cigarettes would be available 24/7 on every street corner.

It's already easier for kids to get cigarettes than vaping gear but they will continue to get both regardless of laws. When there is a federal law banning kids from buying vaping stuff there will be no federal law banning them from posessing it. Most states have laws banning kids from posessing tobacco and everybody knows those are never ever enforced. They're all a bunch of lying hypocrites.

 

[Spazmelda]

If they ban shops mixing their own many would go out of business. If they also ban mail order or make it too hard most people would have no place to get vaping products.

That seems to be pretty much their goal? Like I said, I don't know how it's going to affect buying nic base. I can hope for the best, but I'm preparing for it to be hard to get

 

[StormFinch]

PG and VG have other uses. As long as you're not selling it for vaping purposes, I don't think there's much the FDA can do. They were widely available even before vaping.

*waves at everyone*

I know this has pretty much been answered but, sources of PG and VG A.P. (After Prohibition) are bath and body ingredient companies. Even tractor supply carries PG, it's used to treat cattle feed. Yes, it says for animals only but is USP the last I checked. One of the Mods (or ex mods, at one time I think he came back: Elendil) always used PG from the feed store.

The nicotine nutshell spiell: if money is tight (as it is for so many of us) check out Heartland. I've been using theirs for awhile now; it tastes fine, is clear and keeps well. You'll pay $45 for a liter, comes in plastic though. For decent long term storage put it in dark glass with as little head room as possible, preferably in the freezer. If frozen, let it return to room temp before opening the bottle as otherwise it attracts moisture, and water is your greatest enemy. Oxidation and the resulting nic drop happens gradually over time, and some people actually enjoy the taste it gives the nic, it's not harmful. VG base freezes better than PG, sets up like glue, could possibly keep indefinitely.

Notice: everything that is correct in the above paragraph I learned from Kurt, a chemist that frequents/frequented these forums and has kind of made nic his hobby. Everything that is wrong with the above paragraph I blame on my sieve like brain matter.