New Heated Steeping Method

[CallmeB]

So this is an image of the set up I made last night to test heated steeping. There is no nicotine in this mix, as heat makes nicotine evaporate. I will add that after the steeping is done (3-4 hours) and has cooled to room temperature (about 1 hour). Further testing is required, but I did this on a light spearmint mix last night and It tasted pretty good. If I really want to know if this is working or not, I need to set up a real experiment with control groups. Thus far I'm just testing to see if it destroys the flavor or not. It does not.

Now during the heated steeping I periodically (every 30mins to an hour) come and violently shake the liquid to ensure even heating and promote even infusion. This is all theoretical ofc, but this is how chefs have been infusing oil forever. I don't see that this is any different.

The heater is a light bulb (low wattage) and some wire to give the glass jar somewhere to sit but not be so close to the heat that the liquid inside scorches. It's not a pretty set up, but once I feel this is viable I will create a more stable working model. I'm using a glass jar because heating plastic is ALWAYS a bad idea esp. when its this much heat (probably 200F) *I need to take proper precise measurements of temperature. Honestly storing anything that is meant to be ingested in plastic is not a good idea. Unless it is bio plastic.

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2014/144/4/f/heat_steepin_my_juice__by_brentnewton-d7jlcwc.jpg

 

[Blueser]

Observation: The traits of people are interesting or disturbing (however you look at it) as they will argue/defend/promote whatever they perceive to be factual and 99.9% of the time it is pure hearsay. People by nature are very gullible, they read and believe and go about spreading hearsay in such a manner as to give the impression that they are an authority on the subject...gullibility morphs into vainness.

Steeping: Things that seem monumental to some are insignificant to others. Some folks just love to tinker doing things, testing...there's nothing wrong with this in/of itself, if that's what they like to do...personally it would be bordering on an obsessive-compulsive disorder if I felt it neccessary to heat steep my juice at 149.975 degree for 4hrs, 3minutes and 46seconds vs 152.575 degree for 4hrs, 9minutes and 15seconds because my nicotine degraded 1.16699 % using the ladder method.

Now, don't no one go and get all offended because I'm perfectly satisfied with the majority of my fresh mixes. I just don't find the minuscule differences that ascertainable.

On The Lighter Side: Steeper's Anonymous Is Here To Help...Your Personal Information Is Kept Private and Confidential.

 

[zoiDman]

So this is an image of the set up I made last night to test heated steeping. There is no nicotine in this mix, as heat makes nicotine evaporate. I will add that after the steeping is done (3-4 hours) and has cooled to room temperature (about 1 hour). Further testing is required, but I did this on a light spearmint mix last night and It tasted pretty good. If I really want to know if this is working or not, I need to set up a real experiment with control groups. Thus far I'm just testing to see if it destroys the flavor or not. It does not.

Now during the heated steeping I periodically (every 30mins to an hour) come and violently shake the liquid to ensure even heating and promote even infusion. This is all theoretical ofc, but this is how chefs have been infusing oil forever. I don't see that this is any different.

The heater is a light bulb (low wattage) and some wire to give the glass jar somewhere to sit but not be so close to the heat that the liquid inside scorches. It's not a pretty set up, but once I feel this is viable I will create a more stable working model. I'm using a glass jar because heating plastic is ALWAYS a bad idea esp. when its this much heat (probably 200F) *I need to take proper precise measurements of temperature. Honestly storing anything that is meant to be ingested in plastic is not a good idea. Unless it is bio plastic.

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2014/144/4/f/heat_steepin_my_juice__by_brentnewton-d7jlcwc.jpg

So how did this Method compare to just letting a Mix sit for 3~4 Days Undisturbed in a Cool Dark Place?

 

[Dogeggs]

You need to make sure the temperature of your juice doesn't exceed 160° else your nicotine will lose potency, so you best check just how hot it is getting....is it still 160° or is the jury still out?

Take a look at the threads on the ultrasonic cleaner for lots of info on heat steeping and so on...

 

[rowdyplace]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...eeping-times-ultrasonic-cleaner-part-iii.html

 

[CallmeB]

You need to make sure the temperature of your juice doesn't exceed 160° else your nicotine will lose potency, so you best check just how hot it is getting....is it still 160° or is the jury still out?

Take a look at the threads on the ultrasonic cleaner for lots of info on heat steeping and so on...

I will not add any nicotine until the steeping process is done. Optimally The flavor should be too strong because the nicotine will dilute it afterwards.

 

[CallmeB]

I'm not saying ultrasonic cleaners don't work too, but that is not how it is done by chefs who have much more experience in infusing flavor into liquid than any of us do. It may be that since ultrasonic tech is so new that it just hasn't been discovered by them yet for that purpose. They do however heat liquids to infuse them with flavor quickly. The other method is just to leave it in a jar for 2 weeks.

to answer the question of how this compares with a normal steeping method, I don't know. I need to set up control groups and test it properly. This is a preliminary test just to make sure nothing terribly happens like the flavor completely vanishes or the pg/vg separates or anything like that.

So far so good. I will have further updates later on. I am slowly adding flavor to the mix. TFA Spearmint is a terribly strong flavor.

 

[RocketPuppy]

I will not add any nicotine until the steeping process is done. Optimally The flavor should be too strong because the nicotine will dilute it afterwards.

I'm puzzled. What exactly are you steeping? Even if you add only a few mls of 100mg nic, it's still comprised of 90% pg/vg. Wouldn't the flavorings need to steep with that as well?

 

[RocketPuppy]

heat makes nicotine evaporate.

Evaporate?

 

[zoiDman]

I'm puzzled. What exactly are you steeping? Even if you add only a few mls of 100mg nic, it's still comprised of 90% pg/vg. Wouldn't the flavorings need to steep with that as well?

I think the OP is Steeping just PG, VG and Flavoring to make an 0mg e-Liquid.

It isn't how I would do it Unless I was planning on using 0mg e-Liquids, which I don't think they OP is, but hey, this Isn't my Experiment.

 

[zoiDman]

Evaporate?

The OP is Correct.

Heat does cause Most Liquid Substances to Evaporate. But I question just How Much Evaporation is Occurring at the Temperatures that the OP is Using.

There might be More Lose do to the placing an e-Liquid so close to a Light Source as the OP has.

 

[dannyv45]

Nicotine is part of the final flavor so not steeping with a fully completed mix defeats the purpose of speeding up the process of maturing a juice. Part of the speed steeping process is speeding up the bonding, oxidation, and chemical reaction between the Nicotine,VG,PG and flavoring molecules to combine into a finished juice. Unless your intending on vaping 0mg juice I would not steep without adding nicotine.

 

[RocketPuppy]

I agree with you. Liquids evaporate, but the OP mentioned that "heat makes nic evaporate." Testing shows that nic degrades slightly around plus/minus 125, but evaporation doesn't occur until around 477F.

I guess I'm just confused with this methodology. Light is something that has been proven to have detrimental effects on flavors and nic, so I don't understand the light source as a means of heat production.

 

[dannyv45]

I don't see evaporation happening if you’re steeping with the cap on. The slight degradation of nicotine is negligible when steeping for such a short amount of time and will have no impact on the final product. As long as you’re not making huge amounts of it or planning on storing it for long amounts of time then again these concerns are negligible. Most that mix and steep do so for immediate consumption.

Puppy I love your tag line and whole heartedly subscribe to that line of thinking

 

[zoiDman]

I agree with you. Liquids evaporate, but the OP mentioned that "heat makes nic evaporate." Testing shows that nic degrades slightly around plus/minus 125, but evaporation doesn't occur until around 477F.

I guess I'm just confused with this methodology. Light is something that has been proven to have detrimental effects on flavors and nic, so I don't understand the light source as a means of heat production.

Evaporation can occur at Temperatures that are Significantly Less than a Substances Boil Point. If you don't believe me, go Outside and pour a Glass of Water on the Sidewalk. It will be Gone in the mourning. And on a Hot Day, it might only takes Minutes. And Not Hours.

I'm with you thought on the Enter Light Bulb Heating Idea being Questionable.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Evaporation can occur at Temperatures that are Significantly Less than a Substances Boil Point. If you don't believe me, go Outside and pour a Glass of Water on the Sidewalk. It will be Gone in the mourning. And on a Hot Day, it might only takes Minutes. And Not Hours.

I'm with you thought on the Enter Light Bulb Heating Idea being Questionable.

In terms of water, evaporation doesn't occur solely at boiling temperatures. Water forms an equilibrium with the environment based on many factors, including humidity, size of surface exposed, temperature. Even at cooler temperatures, water will condense. This is much different than nicotine. Our atmosphere is not saturated with nicotine (besides where I'm currently vaping). Our air is saturated with water, and water molecules condense into tiny, tiny droplets, but they are not evaporating into nothingness.

Evaporation may happen before nic reaches 477F, but at 160F, that wouldn't occur.

 

[zoiDman]

In terms of water, evaporation doesn't occur solely at boiling temperatures. Water forms an equilibrium with the environment based on many factors, including humidity, size of surface exposed, temperature. Even at cooler temperatures, water will condense. This is much different than nicotine. Our atmosphere is not saturated with nicotine (besides where I'm currently vaping). Our air is saturated with water, and water molecules condense into tiny, tiny droplets, but they are not evaporating into nothingness.

Evaporation may happen before nic reaches 477F, but at 160F, that wouldn't occur.

Man... If there was Nicotine in the Air, we wouldn't need the FDA messing with Our Lives. LOL

---

I hope that Evaporation or Vaporization occurs at Temperatures Below 477F. Because doesn't PG and VG turn into some Nasty Chemical Compounds when you start to get up into those Temperatures?

 

[RocketPuppy]

Man... If there was Nicotine in the Air, we wouldn't need the FDA messing with Our Lives. LOL

lol

I'd probably still vape.

[/QUOTE]I hope that Evaporation or Vaporization occurs at Temperatures Below 477F. Because doesn't PG and VG turn into some Nasty Chemical Compounds when you start to get up into those Temperatures?[/QUOTE]

Never tried it. Never will. =)

 

[RocketPuppy]

^ whoops that didn't work.

 

[CallmeB]

I don't think the "hide the liquid from light" is what you guys think. UV light typically breaks down chemicals, like direct sunlight. I might be wrong about that, but I have had medication come in the mail before and then gotten another batch of the same medication because the manufacturer said mine had been left in direct sunlight and the UV light in sunlight breaks down the active ingredients. I doubt that the light coming from any typical light bulb would have any effect on e liquid.

As for the nicotine being part of the final mix and that I should have that mixed while steeping, I think you may be right about that. I will need to do some research into nicotine (as well as the other ingredients) and find at what temperatures they break down. I need to learn about nicotine oxidation. I suspect that heated steeping will lessen the flavor potency, but I am just assuming that because I prefer to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised when I'm wrong. Another reason I didn't add the nicotine is that I've not worked out a flavor level I like yet and I don't want to waste nicotine if I screw it up.

When I said "evaporate" I meant break down. I have a few motors that I may repurpose to constantly stir the liquid as it is being heated. Any pc fan could do that with only slight modifications.