New Heated Steeping Method

[RocketPuppy]

You wouldn't want to have a constant stirring with the lid off. You'd get too much oxidation.

 

[dannyv45]

I don't think the "hide the liquid from light" is what you guys think. UV light typically breaks down chemicals, like direct sunlight. I might be wrong about that, but I have had medication come in the mail before and then gotten another batch of the same medication because the manufacturer said mine had been left in direct sunlight and the UV light in sunlight breaks down the active ingredients. I doubt that the light coming from any typical light bulb would have any effect on e liquid.

As for the nicotine being part of the final mix and that I should have that mixed while steeping, I think you may be right about that. I will need to do some research into nicotine (as well as the other ingredients) and find at what temperatures they break down. I need to learn about nicotine oxidation. I suspect that heated steeping will lessen the flavor potency, but I am just assuming that because I prefer to assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised when I'm wrong. Another reason I didn't add the nicotine is that I've not worked out a flavor level I like yet and I don't want to waste nicotine if I screw it up.

When I said "evaporate" I meant break down. I have a few motors that I may repurpose to constantly stir the liquid as it is being heated. Any pc fan could do that with only slight modifications.

I think you may be over thinking the entire process. I would suggest not looking for perfection so early in your mixing career because thinking like that can get expensive and drive you crazy, just have fun with it. Follow the basic steps of mixing your batch, taste it, steep it with the cap on and taste it again. Expect successes and expect failures we've all been through it. When it comes to mixing common sense and following your own intuition rules. Once you produce a few good mixes and experience kicks in you'll likely ask yourself why did I over think such a simple process in the first place, after all it's not rocket science.

I've written many blogs on the subject so let me recommend that you have a look at the following:

Read my blogs before getting started

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dannyv45/

then read hoosier's blogs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/hoosier/

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

 

[Huckleberried]

If you want to do this Right. Why don't you buy one of those Nicotine Testers so you can Know Exactly what Nicotine you have and what you End Up with.

I did that! No change in nic level at 170 or less in a 4 hour crock pot heating. Didn't test higher temps than that.

 

[CallmeB]

I wasn't going to leave the cap off to stir it. Just drill a small hole which I might get a grommet for and put the fans pin through it. It would be air tight, but not able to remain air tight under any kind of pressure. But I don't think that would be an issue. Just an idea.

Yeah I know I sound like I'm over thinking all this stuff, but really can you over think anything? Really? lol No, I'm doing the slow steep in the closet as well. I just like to test multiple variables so as to get a clearer picture of what is really going on. I an ofc a noob, but I don't stay a noob at anything I'm interested in for long. That didn't sound at all arrogant or egotistical. =) I got nothing but time on my hands and have a love for science and logic.

I see a lot of ppl just parroting things they've heard others say, and they don't give me the impression that they know for a fact what they are saying is true. I think this is to be expected in such a young enterprise. People tend to make up their own facts when there aren't any actual facts to be found easily. NOT talking about anyone in here. Mostly ppl I've seen on youtube and some of the common ideas like, keep ur ejuice out of light stuff. I'm almost positive that got started by someone saying it once but meaning direct sunlight, and everyone just latched on to it and now you have to hide ur juice in the cellar. I might be wrong on that. I just know that the light emitted from light bulbs doesn't have the power to initiate any meaningful chemical change. (I said "know", but I don't actually know that to be a fact either. Just an educated guess)

Thanks a lot dannyv45 for the links. I will for sure be reading those. Oh I did see a redit post where a guy heat steeped some ejuice with nicotine in it then sent it off to a lab to be tested and it had only reduced in nicotine content by .1%, so that does seem to support the previous statement that the loss of nicotine would be very small.

I have nothing to compare my heat steeping method to at the moment, but I'm going to keep doing it as it seems highly likely that it would work. Be on the look out for my OOPS I F'd UP thread. lol

 

[JackH]

I'll name your device for you. The Evaporateinator. You're welcome

 

[wllmc]

you hit the nail on the head with this. The ideas kicked around are invaluable. I would have never just came up with hardly any of the ideas I have seen. You have to try it for yourself tho or you will never truly know. You are right about the lights to lol. dark amber bottles are the best but a regular light bulb isnt going to hurt anything. it is barely "light" in the world of illuminating things.

I wasn't going to leave the cap off to stir it. Just drill a small hole which I might get a grommet for and put the fans pin through it. It would be air tight, but not able to remain air tight under any kind of pressure. But I don't think that would be an issue. Just an idea.

Yeah I know I sound like I'm over thinking all this stuff, but really can you over think anything? Really? lol No, I'm doing the slow steep in the closet as well. I just like to test multiple variables so as to get a clearer picture of what is really going on. I an ofc a noob, but I don't stay a noob at anything I'm interested in for long. That didn't sound at all arrogant or egotistical. =) I got nothing but time on my hands and have a love for science and logic.

I see a lot of ppl just parroting things they've heard others say, and they don't give me the impression that they know for a fact what they are saying is true. I think this is to be expected in such a young enterprise. People tend to make up their own facts when there aren't any actual facts to be found easily. NOT talking about anyone in here. Mostly ppl I've seen on youtube and some of the common ideas like, keep ur ejuice out of light stuff. I'm almost positive that got started by someone saying it once but meaning direct sunlight, and everyone just latched on to it and now you have to hide ur juice in the cellar. I might be wrong on that. I just know that the light emitted from light bulbs doesn't have the power to initiate any meaningful chemical change. (I said "know", but I don't actually know that to be a fact either. Just an educated guess)

Thanks a lot dannyv45 for the links. I will for sure be reading those. Oh I did see a redit post where a guy heat steeped some ejuice with nicotine in it then sent it off to a lab to be tested and it had only reduced in nicotine content by .1%, so that does seem to support the previous statement that the loss of nicotine would be very small.

I have nothing to compare my heat steeping method to at the moment, but I'm going to keep doing it as it seems highly likely that it would work. Be on the look out for my OOPS I F'd UP thread. lol

 

[zoiDman]

I did that! No change in nic level at 170 or less in a 4 hour crock pot heating. Didn't test higher temps than that.

Yeah... Those are kinda the Results I would Expect to see.

---

I think that there is a Big Misconception among Many People about how fast Nicotine levels Decrease in various Situations. And it is Fueled by Very Few people Actually Testing their e-Liquids.

Where as this is Not a Definitive Analysis, it has been somewhat Verified by Many Members to Varying Degrees of accuracy since it first came out.

Madvapes Blog - Nicotine Concentration Over Time

Interesting what the Percentages Delta's are in Nicotine Levels from what people consider to be a Worse Case Scenario. To what People Consider to be a Best Case Scenario.

 

[RocketPuppy]

I know you mentioned that you were not referencing people who have commented here, but yes, it's happens often. It's easy to take an idea from someone and turn into pseudo-factual. With that said, quite a few people have done nic degradation testing, including myself, and I don't take anything on here as factual data until I have done the research and tested the methods.

In terms of using a light bulb to emit heat without it's incandescence affecting the mix is dependent on the actual type of bulb you're using. Some will absolutely have an affect.

 

[zoiDman]

I know you mentioned that you were not referencing people who have commented here, but yes, it's happens often. It's easy to take an idea from someone and turn into pseudo-factual. With that said, quite a few people have done nic degradation testing, including myself, and I don't take anything on here as factual data until I have done the research and tested the methods.

...

I think what happens is that People don't Consider "How Much" when things like Decreasing Nicotine Levels are Discussed.

Someone Says that Something Breaks Down or Causes Nicotine to "Evaporate". And that is True. But by How Much Wasn't Quantified. So the Reader is Left to make their Own Conclusions. Which Many Times are Exaggerated.

I read a Thread once where Someone Said that they Arraigned all the Things they Needed to Fill a Clearo so that They Could Minimize the Time Needed to have the Cap off their e-Liquid Bottle. So that they could Reduce the Nicotine Loss when the Cap was Off.

And what Amazed me was how Many People "Like" the Post.

I personally think the Entire Nicotine Loss thing has been Blown Way Out of Proportion. And Question Most People Abilty to know the difference of +/- 1mg/ml in a Blind Test.

And seeing that Most People Don't Test their Nicotine Base. And Even Less Test Retail e-Liquids. So they are Starting Off Not even Knowing what they Have.

 

[CallmeB]

I'm hardly worried about nicotine loss. It doesn't boil until something lik 455F and ofc some loss will happen far below that, but It would be miniscule. Even if it dropped an entire mg which would be pretty damn significant I wouldn't care. Like someone said earlier, it's the difference between 3 puffs a minute and 4.

I'm not using the light bulb because I think that is ideal. It was just available since I broke the top of it the other day accidentally. Primarily I'm worried about taste. I have not noticed any loss of flavor, but I am a noob and I don't have the experience to know if there has been. I believe heat just makes sense in steeping. Maybe not a full on 3-5 hours like is done with oil infusion in cooking, but maybe just bringing the vg up to a temperature that makes it the same consistency as pg would be enough to lock more flavor into it than would otherwise be possible in under a week of steeping.

All the while I've got juices analog steeping in the closet. I could see not caring about steeping quickly eventually once I have 50 flavors and 5 or so steeping at any given time. I am just conducting a poorly designed test. I really need to get a baseline knowledge of what to expect doing it the "waiting" way before I would have any clue as to whether I'm saving any time with this heated method.

There is for sure a lot of Americans vaping which means there are a lot of Fox viewers vaping, which means... I think you know what that means. lol

 

[Blueser]

Observation: The traits of people are interesting or disturbing (however you look at it) as they will argue/defend/promote whatever they perceive to be factual and 99.9% of the time it is pure hearsay. People by nature are very gullible, they read and believe and go about spreading hearsay in such a manner as to give the impression that they are an authority on the subject...gullibility morphs into vainness.

Steeping: Things that seem monumental to some are insignificant to others. Some folks just love to tinker doing things, testing...there's nothing wrong with this in/of itself, if that's what they like to do...personally it would be bordering on an obsessive-compulsive disorder if I felt it neccessary to heat steep my juice at 149.975 degree for 4hrs, 3minutes and 46seconds vs 152.575 degree for 4hrs, 9minutes and 15seconds because my nicotine degraded 1.16699 % using the ladder method.

Now, don't no one go and get all offended because I'm perfectly satisfied with the majority of my fresh mixes. I just don't find the minuscule differences that ascertainable.

On The Lighter Side: Steeper's Anonymous Is Here To Help...Your Personal Information Is Kept Private and Confidential.

 

[JackH]

Observation: The traits of people are interesting or disturbing (however you look at it) as they will argue/defend/promote whatever they perceive to be factual and 99.9% of the time it is pure hearsay. People by nature are very gullible, they read and believe and go about spreading hearsay in such a manner as to give the impression that they are an authority on the subject...gullibility morphs into vainness.

Steeping: Things that seem monumental to some are insignificant to others. Some folks just love to tinker doing things, testing...there's nothing wrong with this in/of itself, if that's what they like to do...personally it would be bordering on an obsessive-compulsive disorder if I felt it neccessary to heat steep my juice at 149.975 degree for 4hrs, 3minutes and 46seconds vs 152.575 degree for 4hrs, 9minutes and 15seconds because my nicotine degraded 1.16699 % using the ladder method.

Now, don't no one go and get all offended because I'm perfectly satisfied with the majority of my fresh mixes. I just don't find the minuscule differences that ascertainable.

On The Lighter Side: Steeper's Anonymous Is Here To Help...Your Personal Information Is Kept Private and Confidential.

Finally a chapter of SA. My credit card number is BR-549-5318008

 

[zoiDman]

If everyone wants to Continue being Able to "Steep" a Liquid e-Liquid, you might want to go to this Thread and do what they are Suggesting.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/fda-regulations/565571-casaa-fda-call-action-2-a.html