New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[mikepetro]

I don't think iit is vacuum as much as airflow speed. Sure there is a small pressure differential, but it's the act of drawing and the airflow rate that matters most.

Someone commented about measuring the vacuum in terms of how it might lower the boiling point. I have figured out a way to measure the vacuum being seen in the atty under normal use. But there are a boat ton of variables like strength of draw, AFC setting, etc.

Not sure the view is worth the climb.

 

[mikepetro]

Didn't go through the whole thread, so sorry if its already been pointed out, but, if the pg in a juice gets "boiled" much quicker than vg, and most of it is gone by the end of a tank,... Wouldn't the flavor be gone too?? 99.9% of flavor is in PG. I've never noticed my juice getting thicker at the bottom, or lack of flavor at all. Also, i thought that when a juice steeps, the molecules Bond together, wouldn't that make it impossible for one to boil off before the other?

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Not sure "how much" of it is gone by the end of an atty tank. Probably depends on the mass of your coil in relation to the volume of the tank, how hot you are running, and what your pg/vg ratio was to begin with. Could be that only ~10% more of the pg is dissipated.

While flavorings are most often diluted with pg, it does appear that at least some flavorings have a higher boiling point than pg alone.



The boiling point tests I did were without flavor, and they didnt steep. Not sure about that whole molecule bounding together thing.

 

[awsum140]

It might be interesting, and possibly informative, to see what the vacuum is with a "light" draw and a "hard" draw as well as with a "tight" MTL style air flow versus a wide open DL draw. Those are all subjective terms but might provide some useful insight to determine if the vacuum produced is significant enough to effect boiling point in a meaningful way.

 

[mikepetro]

It might be interesting, and possibly informative, to see what the vacuum is with a "light" draw and a "hard" draw as well as with a "tight" MTL style air flow versus a wide open DL draw. Those are all subjective terms but might provide some useful insight to determine if the vacuum produced is significant enough to effect boiling point in a meaningful way.

The thing is, if a vacuum does effect the boiling point, it already did in the temperature tests I just performed, ie it has already been accounted for.

 

[awsum140]

Agreed it's been accounted for in previous tests, but quantifying the amount of effect may have some value. Whether it's worth the time and trouble is a whole other question.

 

[zoiDman]

It might be interesting, and possibly informative, to see what the vacuum is with a "light" draw and a "hard" draw as well as with a "tight" MTL style air flow versus a wide open DL draw. Those are all subjective terms but might provide some useful insight to determine if the vacuum produced is significant enough to effect boiling point in a meaningful way.

Say I have a Household Vacuum Cleaner that can create about -20kPa of pressure.

Vacuum cleaner - Wikipedia

Now say I hooked up my Atomizer to my Vacuum Cleaner. I wonder how much the Drop in Pressure would effect the Boiling point of say Water if I went from around 100kPa normal atmospheric pressure to around 80kPa?

By this chart, that would be about 12F Degrees.

12F isn't all that much. But it was a Drop in the Boiling Point.

Now, how Realistic is the Vacuum Cleaner's suction to the suction I create when I draw on My Atomizer?

 

[GeorgeS]

Say I have a Household Vacuum Cleaner that can create about -20kPa of pressure.Now, how Realistic is the Vacuum Cleaner's suction to the suction I create when I draw on My Atomizer?

Thanks for that. It cracked me up!

g.

 

[mikepetro]

But is the vacuum cleaner TC?

 

[beckdg]

But is the vacuum cleaner TC?

Mine is.

I notice when it starts getting warm, the breaker switches.

And it won't let me switch it back till it's cooled.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[mikepetro]

Say I have a Household Vacuum Cleaner that can create about -20kPa of pressure.

Vacuum cleaner - Wikipedia

Now say I hooked up my Atomizer to my Vacuum Cleaner. I wonder how much the Drop in Pressure would effect the Boiling point of say Water if I went from around 100kPa normal atmospheric pressure to around 80kPa?

By this chart, that would be about 12F Degrees.

12F isn't all that much. But it was a Drop in the Boiling Point.

Now, how Realistic is the Vacuum Cleaner's suction to the suction I create when I draw on My Atomizer?

That might be just what I need to help me with this atty, I just cant seem to get a decent vape off it!

 

[Eskie]

That might be just what I need to help me with this atty, I just cant seem to get a decent vape off it!

 

[Burnie]

@mikepetro
I have been following the thread from the begining, thanks for you efforts
Question: Have you the ability to test temperature of smaller wire? (32ga/33ga) In the Tootle Puffer type setups (cartos, protanks, etc.) a lot use the smaller wire, I am currently using 33 ga myself in a Sophia, 2.4Ω at 3.2 volts. I was just wondering what voltage/wattage it took to get the smaller wire to the danger zone. Just had not seen this addressed and thought I would ask. Thanks

 

[mikepetro]

@mikepetro
I have been following the thread from the begining, thanks for you efforts
Question: Have you the ability to test temperature of smaller wire? (32ga/33ga) In the Tootle Puffer type setups (cartos, protanks, etc.) a lot use the smaller wire, I am currently using 33 ga myself in a Sophia, 2.4Ω at 3.2 volts. I was just wondering what voltage/wattage it took to get the smaller wire to the danger zone. Just had not seen this addressed and thought I would ask. Thanks

Yes, I have the ability to use small wire. In my tests so far I have only used SS430.

I am going to dig around in my deep totes of vapegear to see if I have any kanthal or nichrome still laying around. I probably do, sitting along side of some ekowool and maybe even SS mesh. It would be interesting to see what temps I reach on kanthal while getting a comfortable vape.

The one thing I cant do is test in a smaller atty like a Protank. I picked the Merlin because its design allowed me to slip the sensor through the airhole. Not sure how to do that on those smaller Gen2/3 attys.

 

[Burnie]

Yes, I have the ability to use small wire. In my tests so far I have only used SS430.

I am going to dig around in my deep totes of vapegear to see if I have any kanthal or nichrome still laying around. I probably do, sitting along side of some ekowool and maybe even SS mesh. It would be interesting to see what temps I reach on kanthal while getting a comfortable vape.

The one thing I cant do is test in a smaller atty like a Protank. I picked the Merlin because its design allowed me to slip the sensor through the airhole. Not sure how to do that on those smaller Gen2/3 attys.

Thanks Again for your efforts Mike

 

[Eskie]

Can you place a thermocouple on such a small coil? One little yank and the wire could break. I mean, not the end of the world, but I don't know where the practical limitations might be.

 

[mikepetro]

Can you place a thermocouple on such a small coil? One little yank and the wire could break. I mean, not the end of the world, but I don't know where the practical limitations might be.

Not too sure to be honest. Just went through my wire stash (dont ask) and found some 31 and 33. Not even going to try the 33, but the 31 "might" work. Maybe if I wrap the kanthal around the wick and sensor, instead of trying to insert the sensor into the precoiled wick. No promises on any of this, the stuff is like a hair......

 

[awsum140]

C'mon, Mike, that stuff was THE stuff back not too long ago.

 

[mikepetro]

C'mon, Mike, that stuff was THE stuff back not too long ago.

Yeah, but we were only wrapping a wick the size of pencil lead, and not trying to stab it with a sensor.

Think about that wire in a Mizer..........

 

[Rossum]

Someone commented about measuring the vacuum in terms of how it might lower the boiling point. I have figured out a way to measure the vacuum being seen in the atty under normal use. But there are a boat ton of variables like strength of draw, AFC setting, etc.

Not sure the view is worth the climb.

I don't think it is. I'm confident the pressure differential will be minimal. I'd be shocked if it was even a single psi and thus the effect on boiling point will be minimal.

 

[mikepetro]

I've got an idea.

I have a vapocolypse stash of Toptank Nano mods for my GF. I was just looking at the Toptank Nano atty and I "think" I can get a sensor up in one of those cartridges. Would a Kangertech 1.5ohm nichrome cartridge (red o-ring) be representative enough for the tootle puffer crowd? It says for 10w-26w on the side of it. I dont know what the gauge is, but its pretty fine. And the wicking would be more representative than anything I made for a bigger atty.