New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

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mikepetro

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vaping or smoking? Problem is that this decision is not made just for today... But for the future. OK, we have just a little more than a decade of experience with vaping... So I guess that I am fine for the next 8 years... I really hope that vaping is what we think it is... I really truly hope.
Coming from a person who smoked for 45 years+, and tried to quit countless times, I can tell you that based on my 45 years, I have never seen more hope than I see right now!
 

zoiDman

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mikepetro

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Katdarling

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All we can do is go by the best that science has to offer today.
"Yesterday is gone, tomorrow may never get here, therefor all we have is TODAY".....

Once again, live for today!
"Yesterday is gone, tomorrow may never get here, therefor all we have is TODAY".....

And that's why we call it the PRESENT! (ba dum tssssss)



34287583283_eff4970782.jpg




(I had just noticed that I had three matchy-match mods and tanks sitting next to each other and just had to snap an image of them) ;)


Loverly triplets, George!
 

mikepetro

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OK, how about some wicking tests? Thanks to @B2L for the cotton samples.

For the moment I am just going to number the samples, with #1 being on the left, and so on.

  • All samples were exactly 0.11g of fiber, except sample #5 which was so dense it wouldnt have been long enough.
  • All samples were properly fluffed according to their type.
  • All samples were placed in a 3mmID spring, akin to one of our coils.
  • All samples were placed in a rig that kept them separated and also not touching the walls or anything else
  • Jar was filled with a 50/50 mix of PG/VG with some pro grade food coloring
This is the separation rig which was placed over a glass jar:
20170604_170940_zpsnnfnykkw.jpg


And the race is on.....



Im calling #3 the winner, and #5 the 2nd place contender just because of how much juice was trapped in the fiber.
20170604_170750_zpsneiwfcsw.jpg


Capture_zpscnter0oa.jpg


Especially when viewed from above:
20170604_170735_zpsunmnmikw.jpg


Capture2_zps9zvwkrjh.jpg


1-Koh Gen Do
2-VCC Vapers Choice (was probably the easiest to work with)

3-Rayon, big box from Sally's
4-Hemp
5-3mm braided Ekowool, considered the most premium silica
6- Native Wicks Platinum Blend

Now keep in mind that this is only HALF the story. With wicks we care about 2 things, capillary action, and flow. This only demonstrated capillary action. I am still pondering a good protocol to test flow.

Really though, from what I saw, anything but #4 and #5 would work just fine.
 
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mikepetro

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:thumb: nice job Mike, it's cool to see how the wicks compare...

have you ever seen P. Busardos' version


Yeahh, the guy usually does a good job, my problem is that my attention span usually doesnt last as long as he does.
 

Rossum

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All samples were exactly 0.11g of fiber, except sample #5 which was so dense it wouldnt have been long enough.
I wonder how representative that of the way people wick their coils in real life? I mean, we don't wick our coils based on the weight of the wicking material, do we?

Now keep in mind that this is only HALF the story. With wicks were care about 2 things, capillary action, and flow. This only demonstrated capillary action. I am still pondering a good protocol to test flow.
How about the same sort of setup, with an actual coil connected to a DNA, set up to log via eScribe. Pre-saturate the wick with uncolored liquid. Put colored liquid in the reservoir. Fire the coil to some reasonable temperature,say 400F and record how many watts it takes to maintain that temperature. Without additional airflow, the wattage should be inidcative of how fast the wick can supply liquid, I think..?
 

mikepetro

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I wonder how representative that of the way people wick their coils in real life? I mean, we don't wick our coils based on the weight of the wicking material, do we?

Agreed, I have NEVER weighed my wick, I just cut it to size. For testing reason though,
  • I was trying to eliminate as many variables as possible.
  • I was consious of the "feel" of a 3mm wick, and they all felt "right".
  • I personally dont have a good enough feel for cotton to have known the difference between the 3 in how much I should have used. I.e. should I have used more VCC than KDH? Helluviknow...
  • This way nobody can say I jilted the test by favoring one cotton over another by means of technique.
The cottons where all close enough that I dont think it mattered much, but the liquid captured within the Native Wicks caught my eye, and I cant help but wonder if that would correlate to better "flow".

I also "suspect" the depth of green color in each wick at the end of the test might also correlate to "flow", which would put us between the rayon and the Native Wicks.
 

mikepetro

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How about the same sort of setup, with an actual coil connected to a DNA, set up to log via eScribe. Pre-saturate the wick with uncolored liquid. Put colored liquid in the reservoir. Fire the coil to some reasonable temperature,say 400F and record how many watts it takes to maintain that temperature. Without additional airflow, the wattage should be inidcative of how fast the wick can supply liquid, I think..?

I like it, and it makes perfect sense to me, but I was hoping for something more visual and less technical. Considering some in the audience, the less that is subject to interpretation, the easier my life is.
 

Rossum

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I like it, and it makes perfect sense to me, but I was hoping for something more visual and less technical. Considering some in the audience, the less that is subject to interpretation, the easier my life is.
I was thinking the visual part should be covered by "Pre-saturate the wick with uncolored liquid. Put colored liquid in the reservoir."
 

Rossum

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BTW... One of the things that bugged me about P.Busardo's original experiments, and I said so at the time in the original big Rayon thread was: I'm not convinced the speed at which a dry wick becomes wet is at necessarily representative of how fast a pre-saturated wick transports liquid.
 

mikepetro

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BTW... One of the things that bugged me about P.Busardo's original experiments, and I said so at the time in the original big Rayon thread was: I'm not convinced the speed at which a dry wick becomes wet is at necessarily representative of how fast a pre-saturated wick transports liquid.
Thats where the flow testing should shed some light.
 

B2L

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Agreed, I have NEVER weighed my wick, I just cut it to size. For testing reason though,
  • I was trying to eliminate as many variables as possible.
  • I was consious of the "feel" of a 3mm wick, and they all felt "right".
  • I personally dont have a good enough feel for cotton to have known the difference between the 3 in how much I should have used. I.e. should I have used more VCC than KDH? Helluviknow...
  • This way nobody can say I jilted the test by favoring one cotton over another by means of technique.
The cottons where all close enough that I dont think it mattered much, but the liquid captured within the Native Wicks caught my eye, and I cant help but wonder if that would correlate to better "flow".

I also "suspect" the depth of green color in each wick at the end of the test might also correlate to "flow", which would put us between the rayon and the Native Wicks.

Interesting, thanks for doing that Mike.

The cottons where all close enough that I dont think it mattered much, but the liquid captured within the Native Wicks caught my eye, and I cant help but wonder if that would correlate to better "flow".

That's the cotton that I've used less than anything else. I've got a mod set up now that has given me more dry hits than I've gotten since, well... ever. It's the new DNA mod I told you about Mike and I'm running it in wattage mode (?) with a new atty that has quickly gotten a reputation for being power hungry. I've got it set to 55 watts and am getting a good vape but it drys out much, and I do mean much, faster than any of my mechs. Im an unrepentant over squonker and squounk between every hit. My draws are usually 5 seconds, give or take, and I never get a dry hit on my mechs but towards the end of the draw on this mod, it has gotten rather unpleasant. I'm going to try just changing to Native Wick and seeing if I notice any difference. It will be a very unscientific study but I'll let you know how it goes.
 

mikepetro

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I was thinking the visual part should be covered by "Pre-saturate the wick with uncolored liquid. Put colored liquid in the reservoir."

Here is where my head is bouncing around:
  • Fill reservoir with just enough liquid to saturate wicks, plus a smidgen extra
  • Allow it all to drain out into the beakers.
  • Wait 10 minutes to allow complete drippage.
  • Empty, rinse, dry, beaker and replace
  • Refill reservoir and start a 5 minute timer.
  • Remove beakers and weigh contents. (tare weights recorded in advance)
upload_2017-6-4_20-20-27.png



Does this seem "sound"?
 

mikepetro

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Interesting, thanks for doing that Mike.



That's the cotton that I've used less than anything else. I've got a mod set up now that has given me more dry hits than I've gotten since, well... ever. It's the new DNA mod I told you about Mike and I'm running it in wattage mode (?) with a new atty that has quickly gotten a reputation for being power hungry. I've got it set to 55 watts and am getting a good vape but it drys out much, and I do mean much, faster than any of my mechs. Im an unrepentant over squonker and squounk between every hit. My draws are usually 5 seconds, give or take, and I never get a dry hit on my mechs but towards the end of the draw on this mod, it has gotten rather unpleasant. I'm going to try just changing to Native Wick and seeing if I notice any difference. It will be a very unscientific study but I'll let you know how it goes.
I would very interested in fact.....
 
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