New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[MikeE3]

I dont have an RSST laying around anymore, but I do still have a few GKMFs, Would that be suitable. It was one of the best Gennys in its day.

I have an RSST I can sent to you and don't want it back. Just let me know if you want it. I likely have the TIb's mod stuff for it too.

I also just found this in my desk drawer at work. The wick hole is drilled out to 3mm. I forget the name, it was a Shek Co-op deal.

That's some version of the AGT ... maybe an early one ... I think they finally went to 3mm air holes stock.

And just for old times sake, I sometimes use my Mr Frost hybrids ... that little 350 is awesome. Vapes better than the 18500 one. Thanks again.

 

[mikepetro]

I have an RSST I can sent to you and don't want it back. Just let me know if you want it. I likely have the TIb's mod stuff for it too.



That's some version of the AGT ... maybe an early one ... I think they finally went to 3mm air holes stock.

And just for old times sake, I sometimes use my Mr Frost hybrids ... that little 350 is awesome. Vapes better than the 18500 one. Thanks again.

Thanks Mike, will let you know, but I think he is going to send me his with the extra airholes.

Yeah, AGT, thats it, had a gazillion of them at one time, they were a decent cheap genny that you werent afraid to mod, even if it messed it up. The one in my desk is just that emergency if the backup failed, and the Oh Slit Kit failed, and spare mizer didnt cooperate.

 

[Mazinny]

OK, so the Protank 2 coils were a real PITA to test.

The 40gauge thermocouples are tiny, delicate, and they fell out easily and frequently. So I got a chance to see and feel the wicks a lot while re-threading the probe. There is no doubt, the rebuilt coils with cotton held magnitudes more juice than the stock coils with silica wicks.

This may shock some tootle folks, but data is data, and this is what I measured.
Stock 2.2 ohm coil on a Protank2. Red was 5.5w, yellow was 5.0w, and blue was 6.0w

*********************************
YES! - A stock 2.2ohm coil is measuring over 500f at only 6w! Just because you are "tootle" does NOT mean you are low temp!
*********************************

The rebuilt coil made with 30g kanthal and cotton wicks fared much better.

And finally, the full data:

Just for the record, NONE of these hits tasted burnt!

Properly rebuilt coils are pretty safe, stock silica coils are NOT, at least according to Wang and Geiss.

A good TC mod and you wouldnt even have to ask these questions......



ETA: Blogged - Actual temperatures inside a Protank Mini on both VV and VW devices. | E-Cigarette Forum

Mike, out of curiosity, how did you settle on one minute between hits ? Do you believe most low wattage vapers wait that long between hits, or was there a different reason or no reason at all ?

I would be curious to find out how low wattage vapers vape ? Me, i probably did at least five or six hits in that one minute span prior to this thread. Even now i probably get three hits in a minute.

 

[mikepetro]

Mike, out of curiosity, how did you settle on one minute between hits ? Do you believe most low wattage vapers wait that long between hits, or was there a different reason or no reason at all ?

I would be curious to find out how low wattage vapers vape ? Me, i probably did at least five or six hits in that one minute span prior to this thread. Even now i probably get three hits in a minute.

I did that to remove the variable of "chain vaping". I have proven beyond doubt that if you dont let the coil cool then the next hit will be hotter (all other things being equal). So I settled on a protocol of 1 minute, or 100f before taking another hit, just to make sure I wasnt skewing the results.

No, I dont believe all vapers wait that long between hits, but I already know they are vaping hotter because of it unless they using a TC mod.

 

[Mazinny]

I did that to remove the variable of "chain vaping". I have proven beyond doubt that if you dont let the coil cool then the next hit will be hotter (all other things being equal). So I settled on a protocol of 1 minute, or 100f before taking another hit, just to make sure I wasnt skewing the results.

No, I dont believe all vapers wait that long between hits, but I already know they are vaping hotter because of it unless they using a TC mod.

Trying to not give ammo to the naysayers ? I'm not sure how it would be "skewing the results" to run the tests as close as possible to how ( a large segment of ) vapers do in real life, but i understand where you're coming from i suppose.

 

[mikepetro]

Trying to not give ammo to the naysayers ? I'm not sure how it would be "skewing the results" to run the tests as close as possible to how ( a large segment of ) vapers do in real life, but i understand where you're coming from i suppose.

Not so much the naysayers. I just want an accurate temp of a single hit. If you chain vape, your temps will be hgiher.

• Kangertech Nano atomizer
• Factory 1.5ohm nichrome coil

15w, ~3.5 sec puff, allowed 2 minute cool down then 4.2 sec puff then chained vaped a couple hits

 

[DPLongo22]

one minute between hits

I've been having difficulty holding to such a pace, if I'm to be brutally candid.

Still no Marlboros in sight though, nor in the foreseeable future.

 

[Mazinny]

Not so much the naysayers. I just want an accurate temp of a single hit. If you chain vape, your temps will be hgiher.

• Kangertech Nano atomizer
• Factory 1.5ohm nichrome coil

15w, ~3.5 sec puff, allowed 2 minute cool down then 4.2 sec puff then chained vaped a couple hits
View attachment 665789

I chain vaped at 10 watts on a rebuilt ( 29g 10 wraps KGD ) PT2 with the v2 afc wide open, for well over 2 years. Best MTL draw ever imo, and not a hint of burnt or bad taste either. Is it possible the coil temperature was approaching 550 and i couldn't tell at all by taste !? This is AFC base btw

 

[mikepetro]

I chain vaped at 10 watts on a rebuilt ( 29g 10 wraps KGD ) PT2 with the v2 afc wide open, for well over 2 years. Best MTL draw ever imo, and not a hint of burnt or bad taste either. Is it possible the coil temperature was approaching 550 and i couldn't tell at all by taste !? This is AFC base btw
View attachment 665801

Yes, it is "possible", (although I have no clue what the temp in that thing was). I have vaped at 500+ and not tasted anything burnt.


A well known PhD recently told me:

(The context was common misconceptions that people seem to hold)
The other, more insidious one is "I can tell by taste if I'm running too hot." The answer to that is "No, no you really can't, until you're so hilariously too hot that you might as well be smoking."

 

[Mowgli]

No, I dont believe all vapers wait that long between hits, but I already know they are vaping hotter because of it unless they using a TC mod.

Here's what it looks like with TC.
My settings still average >410F with no pause between exhale & the next hit.
Some people are better off using TC imo

I named this picture "Vaping Chains.jpg"
I could have called it "Holy .... I'm Dizzy Now.jpg"

 

[mikepetro]

BTW, my PT2 test were with a variable airflow base, set wide open, but the hole looked smaller than your pic.

 

[Mazinny]

^^^ maybe it's just the picture. Although there are three different versions of air flow base for the PT that i know of.

 

[Mowgli]

That was using 90 second time scale.
Here's using 60 sec & taking a non fire hit between hits.
It peaks a degree hotter with cooling.
Moral = don't let it cool.

 

[mikepetro]

I chain vaped at 10 watts on a rebuilt ( 29g 10 wraps KGD )

Also note, the results for rebuilt cotton where MUCH lower.

 

[Mazinny]

Also note, the results for rebuilt cotton where MUCH lower.

View attachment 665815

Yeah, i'm just catching up on the thread ( way behind ). I see that Englishmick used 30g. I used 29g, 10 wraps, at 1.8 ohms. Wonder if that made a difference as well.

 

[mikepetro]

If I had to guess, your 10w was probably in the neighborhood of 470 degrees.

 

[Mazinny]

If I had to guess, your 10w was probably in the neighborhood of 470 degrees.

View attachment 665819

Perhaps, although i'm hoping a little lower ( at least when not chain vaping ), since i had significantly more coil mass at 10 wraps of 29. I'm guessing his coils were more like 7 or 8 wraps of 30.

 

[mikepetro]

Perhaps, although i'm hoping a little lower ( at least when not chain vaping ), since i had significantly more coil mass at 10 wraps of 29. I'm guessing his coils were more like 7 or 8 wraps of 30.

Logical...... but dont ask me for a number.

 

[DPLongo22]

I could have called it "Holy .... I'm Dizzy Now.jpg"

 

[stylemessiah]

I've been having difficulty holding to such a pace, if I'm to be brutally candid.

Here's what it looks like with TC.
My settings still average >410F with no pause between exhale & the next hit.
Some people are better off using TC imo

I named this picture "Vaping Chains.jpg"
I could have called it "Holy .... I'm Dizzy Now.jpg"

View attachment 665811

In amongst some serious/possibly divisive content im glad there is still some good lols