New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Eskie]

Speaking of, any links where i would start to learn about this process would be appreciated. I currently have 26g 316L ss wire and an istick Pico. Where would i start ? I tried to wing it with disastrous results. Sometimes 220 degrees fahrenheit would be way too hot, and sometimes i could barely get any vapor at 450 degrees !

Btw, most of my RTA's are MTL tanks ( Digiflavor Siren, Taifun, KFL v2 ). I also have a Rose V2 which i never use, oh and the one with a geometric pattern as a logo ( set up for dual coils ) which i never use either.

One approach is to see what wattage your tank performs "well at". Use that or a little higher for your wattage setting in TC. Now you can adjust the temperature knowing you won't lack sufficient current to reach temp, and not too much that you get a hot hit.

There is arctic fox software that's open source that not only helps set up the Pico, as well as a bunch of wismec and joytech mods with a new firmware, and deliver a device monitor type similar to DNA mods. Really helps you see what's actually happening with your adjustments. I think it's pc only, but there's a thread in the tc section about it.

 

[joeman36]

I saw somewhere that the nautilus mini was supposedly not running very hot. Am I safe running it around 8 - 10 watts, chain vaping like crazy? Was wondering what kind of temps it could be hitting around 8 - 10 watts since the study talks about tootle vapes going over safety limits at 10 watts.

 

[David Wolf]

Speaking of, any links where i would start to learn about this process would be appreciated. I currently have 26g 316L ss wire and an Istick Pico. Where would i start ? I tried to wing it with disastrous results. Sometimes 220 degrees fahrenheit would be way too hot, and sometimes i could barely get any vapor at 450 degrees !

Btw, most of my RTA's are MTL tanks ( Digiflavor Siren, Taifun, KFL v2 ). I also have a Rose V2 which i never use, oh and the one with a geometric pattern as a logo ( set up for dual coils ) which i never use either.

I recently got my Pico and have been vaping 316L 28 AWG, and initially had some of the same issues as you. After more research (had already done some before I bought it) I now get consistent results, and decently accurate temperature display, even when I change my CLR coil and wick. These lessons learned should help you:
Pico problem - How accurate are mods' resistance measurements?

 

[mikepetro]

I saw somewhere that the nautilus mini was supposedly not running very hot. Am I safe running it around 8 - 10 watts, chain vaping like crazy? Was wondering what kind of temps it could be hitting around 8 - 10 watts since the study talks about tootle vapes going over safety limits at 10 watts.

I havent tested a Nautilus Mini yet, so I dont have data on it.

If I had to guess, I would say the results would be pretty similar to this
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig. | E-Cigarette Forum
But that is only a guess.

And BTW, some tootle puffers are going past the limits, that Wang suggests, on as little as 6W.
See the Protank2 results:
Actual temperatures inside a Protank Mini on both VV and VW devices. | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[mikepetro]

I sure would love to test a:
TFV8 Baby Beast
And the 9 different cartridges available for it.
Since this is a currently popular atty that doesnt do TC, it would be a great candidate.

Any volunteers to send me one? Add $7 for postage and I will send it back.
Note, while I definitely would not destroy the atty, it is possible I could destroy the cartridges, but I dont think so by looking at the pics.

 

[mikepetro]

BTW, for DNA folks, this might be worth a watch if you have never seen it:

 

[Layzee Vaper]

Mike, I hope you don't mind if I make a suggestion?

If you did some tests with no airflow, with say a 10 second duration, applying the power until the temperature peaks at 450F, then you should be able to work out a maximum safe power level for each coil you are testing.

If the coils maximum temp is 450F even with the power applied for an extended period, then you know it will be below this level when you add the airflow, even if the user chain vapes.

 

[coolvaporjbs]

wow as a noob I'm totally confused I think.

So I use an Alien 220W at 37W with the included .16 coil that came with the TFV8 Baby Beast. Am I ok? I don't do MTL or DL I do (what I call) MoP (mouth only puffs)

any advice? should I switch over to a TC mod?
I can change my Alien to TC mode and then set 37W and dial in 200F - funny thing is the vapor seems hotter in my mouth than when I'm in wattage mode at 37W...

any advice/tips would be helpful.

 

[joeman36]

I havent tested a Nautilus Mini yet, so I dont have data on it.

If I had to guess, I would say the results would be pretty similar to this
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig. | E-Cigarette Forum
But that is only a guess.

And BTW, some tootle puffers are going past the limits, that Wang suggests, on as little as 6W.
See the Protank2 results:
Actual temperatures inside a Protank Mini on both VV and VW devices. | E-Cigarette Forum

Thanks for that man. Is it just me tough but on the link you shared with me:
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig. | E-Cigarette Forum

Acording to those test result it does not go over 250f at 10w and it isnt until like 14w that it starts going over 450f? Or am i imagining things?

 

[Mazinny]

I recently got my Pico and have been vaping 316L 28 AWG, and initially had some of the same issues as you. After more research (had already done some before I bought it) I now get consistent results, and decently accurate temperature display, even when I change my CLR coil and wick. These lessons learned should help you:
Pico problem - How accurate are mods' resistance measurements?

Thanks so much. I will dedicate one day this coming weekend to figuring this out. I need to start from the basics ; what's a TCR value and how do i find it, what's a cotton burn test, what firmware is best for Pico, etc... and i will read your links thoroughly as well. Do you mind if i pm you if i have a specific questions ?

 

[Mazinny]

I saw somewhere that the nautilus mini was supposedly not running very hot. Am I safe running it around 8 - 10 watts, chain vaping like crazy? Was wondering what kind of temps it could be hitting around 8 - 10 watts since the study talks about tootle vapes going over safety limits at 10 watts.

Thanks for that man. Is it just me tough but on the link you shared with me:
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig. | E-Cigarette Forum

Acording to those test result it does not go over 250f at 10w and it isnt until like 14w that it starts going over 450f? Or am i imagining things?

There has been a study that measured actual aldehyde emissions on various clearos. The Nautilus ( not the mini ) was one of the devices, and aldehyde emission was close to zero, up to 13 watts . The Nautilus was device 4.

Effect of variable power levels on the yield of total aerosol mass and formation of aldehydes in e-cigarette aerosols - ScienceDirect

 

[mikepetro]

Mike, I hope you don't mind if I make a suggestion?

If you did some tests with no airflow, with say a 10 second duration, applying the power until the temperature peaks at 450F, then you should be able to work out a maximum safe power level for each coil you are testing.

If the coils maximum temp is 450F even with the power applied for an extended period, then you know it will be below this level when you add the airflow, even if the user chain vapes.

Its not a bad theory but it really doesn't give vapers what they really want to know.

The typical vaper, or should I say - the minority who are even aware that temperature matters, wants to know how hard they can push their rig without going into thermal degradation.

Measuring the coil in a vacuum wont tell them that. The coil without any wick might max at 7w before hitting 450.

Now add adequate air and juice flow and you find you can push that exact same rig to 11w before hitting 450f. That 11w value is what vapers really want to know.

I am trying to test all the variables, as they actively interact together, to paint a picture of what a Mod in actual normal use is capable of, before hitting theoretical thermal degradation.

 

[mikepetro]

Thanks for that man. Is it just me tough but on the link you shared with me:
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig. | E-Cigarette Forum

Acording to those test result it does not go over 250f at 10w and it isnt until like 14w that it starts going over 450f? Or am i imagining things?

Nope, you are interpreting it correctly, for the Kangetech Subox Nano.

 

[David Wolf]

Thanks so much. I will dedicate one day this coming weekend to figuring this out. I need to start from the basics ; what's a TCR value and how do i find it, what's a cotton burn test, what firmware is best for Pico, etc... and i will read your links thoroughly as well. Do you mind if i pm you if i have a specific questions ?

Sure PM me anytime Mazinny will help if I can and will try to respond when I get off work.

 

[mikepetro]

wow as a noob I'm totally confused I think.

So I use an Alien 220W at 37W with the included .16 coil that came with the TFV8 Baby Beast. Am I ok? I don't do MTL or DL I do (what I call) MoP (mouth only puffs)

any advice? should I switch over to a TC mod?
I can change my Alien to TC mode and then set 37W and dial in 200F - funny thing is the vapor seems hotter in my mouth than when I'm in wattage mode at 37W...

any advice/tips would be helpful.

I dont have any data on the Baby Beast so I cant even estimate what it is doing.

However, if you are MoP vaper, I think your risks are very minimal regardless.

The reason TC gives you wonky results is that none of the Baby Beast coils are designed for TC. Gawd only knows what the Alien is trying to do in that situation.

 

[Dodger01]

I dont have any data on the Baby Beast so I cant even estimate what it is doing.

However, if you are MoP vaper, I think your risks are very minimal regardless.

The reason TC gives you wonky results is that none of the Baby Beast coils are designed for TC. Gawd only knows what the Alien is trying to do in that situation.

Mop vape what does this mean?

 

[mikepetro]

Mop vape what does this mean?

Mouth puffing, but not inhaling. Kind of like what some people do with cigars and pipes.

 

[Dodger01]

I enhale a little

 

[Dodger01]

I only hold the button for 2 seconds

 

[mikepetro]