New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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Test the inhale & exhale from vapers using their own devices. (After getting a control of their exhale without vaping)
A couple thousand people take a couple of hits (plus $$$ for equipment and analysis), bingo, the data we need.
Not to say the data Mike is collecting is not useful. I am grateful for his work, but I understand the limits and the flaws in the study that he uses as the basis for his safe coil temperature limits. Many reading here do not, judging from their questions and requests.
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That is Really where the Rubber meets the Road.
Always though by Now that we would have seen some Studies where Researchers drilled a Siphon Port into Drip Tips and then had Vapers puff away using whatever Set-up they wanted.
And as the vaper Puffed away, a miniscule amount of Vapor would be collected and ran thru Vape-O-matic 2000 to analyze for Formaldehyde or Diketones or whatever. And after the Hit, the Vaper would Exhale into a Exhale-O-Matic and it would be Analyzed also.
I would say that BT and BV have done/are doing this. But they don't have to Publically Publish their Findings.
"Test Every Atomizer with Every e-Liquid out there under Every Possible Condition that Every User might use?"
that is empirical and works for me. could get labor intensive.
"the limits and the flaws in the study that he uses as the basis for his safe coil temperature limits."
verb, could you expand on this a little?
that is empirical and works for me. could get labor intensive.
"the limits and the flaws in the study that he uses as the basis for his safe coil temperature limits."
verb, could you expand on this a little?
Scroll back a few posts and see my "formaldehyde per puff" post as on example.
I believe "presence " at "X" temp has been proven, but not quantity.
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o.k. , i see what you mean. but can we influence the direction of these studies by the fully equipped mega-labs?
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I'm trying through back door channels but no idea how successful I will be.
The thing is that all the folks submitting PMTAs have probably already done all this. They just consider it Trade Secrets right now.
Sent from phone, please excuse fat thumbs and autocorrect.
Mike I think what we are actually seeing is the emergence of BIG VAPE. Companies that are prepared to put profit margins and market share before the health of their customers.
If they have any clear evidence of an increased health risk associated with the products they produce and sell they have a moral duty to disclose it. Otherwise they fall into the same category as BT, BP and bent governments across the world.
Personally I won't continue to contribute to the considerable profit they are making by buying their products.
If they have any clear evidence of an increased health risk associated with the products they produce and sell they have a moral duty to disclose it. Otherwise they fall into the same category as BT, BP and bent governments across the world.
Personally I won't continue to contribute to the considerable profit they are making by buying their products.
I would agree. We will see, and know who knew what, when the PMTAs start getting submitted. But then, it won't be on any of the hardware we are using today, it most likely be data on a new line of pod mods.
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It will be on at least some items currently or will shortly be in the full retail distribution market like a DNA 75C and the speculative but I'm sure it's there 250C. Assuming anything other than a pod can be marketed.
But the DNA data won't help much beyond proving DNA accuracy. EVOLV won't get into the other (thousands of) parts of an open system.
Sent from phone, please excuse fat thumbs and autocorrect.
Except if Evolv got approved after showing x degrees are safe it would offer other manufacturers the ability to file an SE application instead of a PMTA. I'm pretty sure companies will be jockeying for who spends the money on a PMTA when just might get by holding onto someone else's cost tails. Speculation.
If I were Evolv I wouldnt touch "safe" temp claims at all. I would just prove that if used as directed it will control at a selected temp. It should be up to the juice manufactures to say what the safe temp is for a given juice.
If e-Cigarettes are Regulated as many think there will be, there will be No Open System PMTA's issued.
So an e-Liquid would be "Married" to an Unadulterated atomizer/cartridge. And that Atomizer/Cartridge would go with a Power Source.
And the Complete Assembly would be what receives the PMTA.
Think VUSE.
I understand, this is assuming closed systems only. I know it all points that way, but I dont think Evolv has thrown in the towel on that yet.
Nonetheless, unless Evolv is specifying the juice, they cant make "safe temp" claims.
Actually, if a DNA 75C were part of a closed system, it would be up to the manufacturer of the pod mod to obtain the PMTA, not Evolv. Evolv could provide data showing proper temp control to the manufacturer, and the manufacturer would be responsible for programming maximum temp settings, preheat, etc.
Yeah... Just kinda have to wait and see. And perhaps Judge Berman can shed some light as to what the FDA Can and Can Not do some time soon.
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And you are Correct. It will be the Person who wishes to Market the e-Cigarette who would obtain the PMTA. Regardless of who's OEM board is inside.
That is, unless Evolv wants to make an e-Cigarette and play Wheel of Dysfunction in the US FDA game show. Which I Don't think they do.
That is NOT beyond the realm of possibility. They have bounced around some interesting possibilities.
Imagine a pod mod from Evolv where each individual juice pod tells the mod what the appropriate/max parameters are for that particular juice pod. Accommodate the high VG crowd, and the low VG crowd, and everything in between, also accommodates different coil types for cloud vs MTL etc, and still be within FDA approved specs.
No... It Isn't beyond the realm of Possibilities.
The US Market isn't the only market out there. So I could see a Scenario where someone like Evolv might consider doing there own e-Cigarette.
But Doing a PMTA on it? With the Deeming in place? And in the Courts. And No Clear Signals where the US Market is Headed? Might be One Hell of a Big Tax Write Off.
Hard to say.
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