New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[GeorgeS]

A quick look came up with:
Impingers and Bubblers - Impingers & Bubblers | Sigma-Aldrich

~$125, about a 1/3 the cost of the new meter.

I was just thinking - perhaps coil a hose in a glass of ice water to cool the vapor down before it enters the meter?

 

[mikepetro]

Actually, an impinger wouldnt really work. It functions on the principle of bubbling the gas through a water or solvent, and then analyzing the liquid (HPLC big $$). Wouldn't work for this setup.

Thinking about a cylinder or chamber that draws a specific volume in a 3 second periods., or some such contraption.

Lots of pondering.......

 

[mikepetro]

Blue sky thinking here:

Imagine a syringe or actuated cylinder equal to the volume of a hit (I can figure that out or look up some preexisting standard).

Draw that syringe in 3 seconds through an atty. Inject contents of syringe into a 500ml chamber (lung volume), and measure results?????????

Do it 5 times. Average results.
Weigh atty before and after to get juice consumption.

 

[mikepetro]

I used to be really into Halloween. I used air cylinders and timers to make coffins open up and skeletons pop up etc. I still have all that electronics in my attic. I can automate the hell out of most anything.

Coffin lid popped open, and skeleton talked to you, when someone was just close enough to cross a photoeye.

The was the electronics I used to drive the whole display:

The whole album:Halloween

Anyway, I can automate a cylinder...........

 

[awsum140]

How about the tube from a "trombone" sprayer, Mike? The largest, true, syringe I see on Amazon is only 150ml which is way less than my tired, old, lungs inhale with a breath. The volume could be determine simply by filling it with water. The trick is to find one big enough, say with at least a half liter capacity or more.

Nix that. I just looked on Amazon. Whatever happened to those old ones like was in the death scene of "The Godfather"?

 

[Rossum]

Anyway, I can automate a cylinder...........

Of that, I have no doubt at all.

 

[mikepetro]

See this cylinder here.

I can time an air solenoid to open for three seconds. The part circled in blue is an air restrictor. You set it to slow the air volume down so that you just barely get a full stroke of the cylinder in that 3 seconds. Finding a cylinder with the correct volume shouldnt be too hard, they are cheap on ebay. I just need to make sure the cylinder itself doesnt give off any formaldehyde.

Anyway, just an idea. I will figure something out.

 

[Rossum]

Just with casual playing around I was able to drive the formaldehyde reading to its limit of 5PPM pretty easily, even at low DNA settings.

Now you have my curiosity going. I seem to remember reading that everyone exhales a bit of formaldehyde all the time. Is this thing sensitive enough to pick that up?

 

[mikepetro]

I do some of my best thinking in the shower......

It occurred to me that in a TC device do we really care about the puff length as long we get the volume right?

I can see where it would matter in a VV or VW device because the coil changes temperature depending on how long you fire it.

But in a TC device the coil temp will remain constant. So if I obtain a repeatable puff volume, does the time it took to extract it really matter. Assuming 5 seconds or less..

 

[Eskie]

I do some of my best thinking in the shower......

It occurred to me that in a TC device do we really care about the puff length as long we get the volume right?

I can see where it would matter in a VV or VW device because the coil changes temperature depending on how long you fire it.

But in a TC device the coil temp will remain constant. So if I obtain a repeatable puff volume, does the time it took to extract it really matter. Assuming 5 seconds or less..

Sounds correct to me. The rate of draw might make a difference in "how long" the juice is in "contact" with the coil, but if you've got a flat temp on Device monitor I think volume is more important. Same probably with VW on the assumption that the draw will represent the average coming off the coil, and things will be less to start then rise towards the end of the draw. Sure, it might not be what the aldehyde production would be at Tmax, but it only spends very little time exposed to that Tmax, so the volume becomes more important. Unless you're taking 10 second draws in VW mode.

 

[mikepetro]

OK, after consulting our own Dr @Kurt Here is where I landed.

• Puff volume = 55ml because that is apparently an International test standard that is in the process of being established.
• Puff sample is diluted into 500ml of fresh air, as this is the tidal (total) lung volume after you inhale the MtL hit.
• (yes, bigger and smaller than average people will differ slightly)

Turns out a 1 pint Mason jar fill to the brim is 500ml.

Test rig freshly assembled:

After testing a 410f sample:

After testing a 520f Sample: (clearly tasted burnt)

These were just sample test runs. There is going to be a learning curve with this thing.

• Cleanliness is paramount and I dont know how to best do that yet.After testing the burnt sample I rinsed the glassware with both hot water, 90%ISA, and then hot water again. That wasnt enough. WHen I reassembled everything it still read high formaldehyde.
• I cant vape in the room! It picks it up.
• I have yet to get a "repeatable" sample yet, I think I need to figure out the cleaning thing first.
• The tubing is very strange, the ports are so close together I guess they had to do it this way, maybe I can find some thin wall tubing. Or at least figure out how to clean this stuff.
• 

 

[awsum140]

Maybe move the whole test rig outside to avoid any ambient formaldehyde. Maybe blowing out the "test vessel", after cleaning it first, with compressed air would help, too. Worst case, a case of pint jars is fairly cheap. (I know,I'm spending your money)

Another thought...is there a cleaning/purging protocol for the meter? Maybe let the sample fan run for a period of time after each test. Along those lines, if any of the vapor is condensing inside the sensor that could very easily skew the readings very quickly.

 

[Eskie]

Curious, do you need to use something non-reactive like Nalgene in place of plain plastic? Also, what about using glass syringes? Again, less reaction with the collection materials.

 

[mikepetro]

Curious, do you need to use something non-reactive like Nalgene in place of plain plastic? Also, what about using glass syringes? Again, less reaction with the collection materials.

I would think the tubing they shipped with the Formaldehyde Meter should work. It feels like regular silicone tubing. I would love to know where to buy more of it.

As for the syringe being plastic, maybe, but I did use a fresh syringe for each sample.

Havent figured it out yet, but residue stays in there somewhere (maybe on the fan blades?). A project for another day...

 

[Semiretired]

There has to be a source from the manufacturer or from user groups on the device to help...

 

[mikepetro]

Maybe move the whole test rig outside to avoid any ambient formaldehyde. Maybe blowing out the "test vessel", after cleaning it first, with compressed air would help, too. Worst case, a case of pint jars is fairly cheap. (I know,I'm spending your money)

Another thought...is there a cleaning/purging protocol for the meter? Maybe let the sample fan run for a period of time after each test. Along those lines, if any of the vapor is condensing inside the sensor that could very easily skew the readings very quickly.

I have plenty of the pint jars, and a box of the syringes.

The manual made no mention of a cleaning protocol, but then I dont think they were anticipating anything more concentrated then indoor air quality.

 

[mikepetro]

There has to be a source from the manufacturer or from user groups on the device to help...

Agreed, hell, McMaster Carr probably has it, if you know what name they use for it.

 

[zoiDman]

That is Classic.

 

[zoiDman]

That is Classic.

BTW - How do you Baseline your meter?

I mean, can you put a Drop of something like this in a Jar, shake it up, and then Measure it?

Formaldehyde or Formalin, 37%, 16oz for sale. Buy from The Science Company.

 

[mikepetro]

BTW - How do you Baseline your meter?

I mean, can you put a Drop of something like this in a Jar, shake it up, and then Measure it?

Formaldehyde or Formalin, 37%, 16oz for sale. Buy from The Science Company.

Its got a built in calibration. As for a baseline validation, I havent figured that out yet. The upper range is 5ppm so 37% would be WAAAAY over-limit. Anyway, only had one night to play with this thing so far, and most of that was spent figuring out the rig,