New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Eskie]

July 2017 and they are STILL focusing on voltage and wattage!

A Novel Vaping Machine Dedicated to Fully Controlling the Generation of E-Cigarette Emissions

I have a feeling that "U-SAV" system will be available as a USAV styled system from FT for those investigators working with a limited budget. The article reads like a marketing pamphlet.

One weird thing they didn't get into was that there is a thermocouple built into the system and this statement in their methods.

"The operator can choose between three different flow profiles (square, tooth saw, sinusoidal) and different modes:
-
Voltage: a constant voltage is applied during the whole manipulation,
-
Power: the resistor value is calculated every 150 ms by measuring current and voltage and the power supplied is regulated according to the evolutions of resistor value."


Doesn't that read sort of like TC to you?

 

[awsum140]

Reads more like the "higher end" VW devices of 'yore. I didn't look at the whole thing, but wonder what resistance range it is capable of handling and what the resolution and accuracy are of that range may be. That would definitely clarify whether or not it is TC capable.

 

[mikepetro]

"The operator can choose between three different flow profiles (square, tooth saw, sinusoidal) and different modes:
-
Voltage: a constant voltage is applied during the whole manipulation,
-
Power: the resistor value is calculated every 150 ms by measuring current and voltage and the power supplied is regulated according to the evolutions of resistor value."


Doesn't that read sort of like TC to you?

Sounds more like VV and VW to me.

Even this, "while sounding" like TC, is being implemented as VW.

**********************************
Figure 4a,b show, respectively, a typical power and resistor profile obtained with the U-SAV. Two main phases can be observed for both of these curves. The first one is transient and corresponds to a fast increase in resistance value and power delivery at the beginning of the puff (<0.25 s) and the second is a threshold value. The two curves follow the same trend since the power value has been regulated with reference to the resistor value, calculated from measurements of voltage and current. As the resistor value is linked to its temperature (stainless steel wire has a high temperature coefficient of resistance), it becomes stable only when the temperature reaches a plateau value (around 1.35 Ω), which occurs after 500 ms. However, between the transient slope and the complete stabilisation of the temperature, resistor value does not change substantially (approximately 0.15 Ω), which makes it possible to regulate power at 15 W (which was the intended setting) during more than 90% of the puff duration, with a variation lower than 5%.

 

[mikepetro]

I wrote them and offered some "thermal degradation" opinions. Backed by graphs and data and stuff.

 

[stols001]

IDK your time zone MikeP, but man, you are far more energetic than me. I'm still waking up, and trying to figure out what meal would best suit a HALLOWEEN BONFIRE with an odd mix of invitees, not thinking about vaping improvements. . With that said, I have been ill? Have I mentioned I still feel like a worn out dishrag? I believe I may have.

Anna

 

[mikepetro]

IDK your time zone MikeP, but man, you are far more energetic than me. I'm still waking up, and trying to figure out what meal would best suit a HALLOWEEN BONFIRE with an odd mix of invitees, not thinking about vaping improvements. . With that said, I have been ill? Have I mentioned I still feel like a worn out dishrag? I believe I may have.

Anna

Lots of RAW red meat, with skewers, spiked blood red fruit punch, and fresh veggies cut into creepy shapes.

Something with cherry pie filling as a topping for desert.

 

[mikepetro]

IDK your time zone MikeP, but man, you are far more energetic than me. I'm still waking up, and trying to figure out what meal would best suit a HALLOWEEN BONFIRE with an odd mix of invitees, not thinking about vaping improvements. . With that said, I have been ill? Have I mentioned I still feel like a worn out dishrag? I believe I may have.

Anna

This was my front yard a few years back, I can be creative when I want to be:

Halloween

 

[stols001]

We don't do the AlcoHols in our house, Mike. We have some liquor hanging around for those who want it and for cooking, but I will definitely do Fruit Punch, probably the kind you keep chilled with both ice and ice cream, LOL, anything out on the dining room table is fair game, but we are strictly a family who would've enjoyed the 60s, mainly because we all have health ailments that are improved via this method. So, desert will be brownies, most likely, one with a warning label. Heck, even the Kid doesn't drink (as the product of two addicts and alcoholics, I am So Proud of the Early aged Abstinence...).

Red meat is a DEFINITE, since getting all my implants hooked up I'm usually found with a vape in one hand and a stick of celery in the other, which I chomp on with Great Thrill (those with dentures will know what I mean, but that's a small pool I think, but basically dentures impair your ability to eat anything fun without cutting it into tiny pieces... no more ).

Cherry pie is such an American deal, I could never get on board with it. Strawberry-rhubarb, maybe....

Getting moving would be wise, but I woke up with a bad case of PMS and a backache....

A smoker is coming though!!! I am going to break out a pen setup and give it a shot! Hahaha. I wonder what ejuice would be good that I still have around, I have a bunch of vanillas and a peppermint.... I will not be talking about TC with the pen, just blowing Bubbles in all directions. I have The Best pair of glasses, LOL.

Anna

 

[stols001]

Nice Pics, Mike, mad scientists are so scary....

Anna

 

[mikepetro]

Nice Pics, Mike, mad scientists are so scary....

Anna

Mad Scientists???? This was me testing for formaldehyde!

 

[awsum140]

I duuno, Mike, those characters in your photos look like the staff where my wife works. They were the basis for the plot of "The Walking Dead".

 

[440BB]

Mad Scientists???? This was me testing for formaldehyde!

Just as I pictured it.
It'll be hard to replicate your lab when the peer reviews start.

 

[Rossum]

Power: the resistor value is calculated every 150 ms by measuring current and voltage and the power supplied is regulated according to the evolutions of resistor value."
Doesn't that read sort of like TC to you?

I don't think they've quite made the leap that if they had a TCR curve, they'd know the temperature of the wire.

I wonder how just how loudly Mr. Bellinger would laugh at measuring current and voltage every 150 ms.

FWIW, I designed and built industrial furnace power supplies back in the mid 1990s that measured voltage and current every 2.78 ms using a processor (NEC V25) that was surely orders of magnitude slower that anything you'd find in an Evolv product.

 

[VapNMirrors]

I don't think they've quite made the leap that if they had a TCR curve, they'd know the temperature of the wire.

I wonder how just how loudly Mr. Bellinger would laugh at measuring current and voltage every 150 ms.

FWIW, I designed and built industrial furnace power supplies back in the mid 1990s that measured voltage and current every 2.78 ms using a processor (NEC V25) that was surely orders of magnitude slower that anything you'd find in an Evolv product.

Indeed. The Yihi boards are using 16 bit 48kHz ADCs. Their thermal probes could just be Ni wire with some kind of hand cranked calculator behind it.

 

[mikepetro]

They are using SS wire, they spec it out in the doc. They are missing the whole point though. They are so close they might actually trip over it if they arent careful!

 

[Jumpin' In...]

This was my front yard a few years back, I can be creative when I want to be:

Halloween

WHOA!! Color me impressed!

 

[Katya]

WHOA!! Color me impressed!

ikr

 

[mikepetro]

An interesting article by Dr F:

Changes in puffing topography and nicotine consumption depending on the power setting of electronic cigarettes

Results. Puff number and puff duration were lower at 10 W [46 (16) puffs and 3.8 (0.8) s] compared to 6 W [57 (20) puffs and 4.6 (1.0) s]. Liquid and nicotine consumption was higher at 10 W [373 (176) mg and 4.2 (2.4) mg respectively] compared to 6 W [308 (165) mg and 3.5 (2.3) mg respectively]. Vapers reported more aerosol volume and ease of use at 10 W compared to 6 W.
Conclusions. The study identified an attempt for compensatory puffing patterns and nicotine self-titration, with a change in puffing patterns (puff number and duration) observed when changing the power settings of an e-cigarette device.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...on_the_power_setting_of_electronic_cigarettes

So, this leads me to wonder......

Though contrary to what many may think, increasing your nic could actually be safer from an aldehyde POV.

We self-titrate, which means we will unconsciously take as many puffs to get the nic our body craves. If the nic level is too low we will take more, and LONGER hits. Remember LONGER hits means higher temperatures.

So if you bumped you nic up a little bit, you would actually find yourself taker fewer and shorter hits. You could also reduce your wattage and still get a similar satisfaction level.

 

[HansWu]

hm in my experience,
when I increase my nic drastically I will get headaches. -that pain would make me then vape less...but not really how Id like it. I think increasing nic by 20% would not make me vape 20% less.

 

[CMD-Ky]

I hate to admit this in a public forum. I understand very little of what has been written. My take away has been that lowering the temperature of the vape is generally considered to be "safer" - if "safer" is the correct word to use (my preference has generally been "risk reduction").

Endeavoring to do so, I have changed have been changing the coil build for use in my mechanical squonkers. I aim for a "heat flux" number in what is considered to be the rather cool range. I use the old style of the Steam Engine coil calculator.

Now, to the question, has my take away from what I have read been correct? Does the cooler coil, in some way, mimic the beneficial effect of temperature control in regulated mods?

@mikepetro I have to thank you for the work you have put into this project, it is obviously extensive and time intensive. I wish that I had the educational background to understand all of it (or, after reading my post, you may wonder if I understood any of it).