New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[Johnnyvapor18]

Not going to lie.

 

[NU_FTW]

Not going to lie.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh so close, i dont have the millennial urban dictionary! i was thinking not goina listen.. 2 for 3 i suppose

 

[Johnnyvapor18]

When I had my cleito , I used to run it at 275 Celsius. That's 527 Fahrenheit . I never got any burnt hits from it and it tasted fine. I loved tc but now that I have a tfv8 kind of bummed I can't run tc anymore

 

[Mowgli]

When did this become about dry hits?
This study was about chemical reactions at x temperature when juice is vaporized.
Dry hits & burning cotton, rayon, alpaca hair etc are not related to this.
They're important but not what was being tested.
I'm not targeting anyone here, this has been bugging me for page after page.

 

[Johnnyvapor18]

I meant that all my hits tasted fine that high. my bad.

 

[Johnnyvapor18]

Was just a little confused. That's all.

 

[Mowgli]

It's been bugging me for many pages once I realized how much discussion has been about dry-hits. It wasn't directed at you.
Just clearing the air if I might.

 

[Johnnyvapor18]

you're all good no worries! So just curious, how do I know if my vape is that high without temp control . Cause I have a tfv 8 and I run it at 90-92 watts with the t8 coil.

 

[Mowgli]

Seriously. It's been bugging me since Wednesday.
Just bad timing. You're cool

 

[Cosmic_Glaze]

there should be some pico users here who can advise you but if i remember right there is no wattage adjustment in tc mode. you adjust by the temp settings

Learning about TC.

Night, folks.

4 clicks on the fire button changes the wattage in TC on the Pico..

 

[Katya]

If this post gets 20 likes I'll start a thread if one doesn't exist already.

You just got 20 likes, Cig!

 

[Mowgli]

Once a chemical reaction takes place, it's a done deal. No amount of airflow, cooling the vapor before we inhale will undo that reaction.
I wanted to see how "hot" my usual vape is. How many degrees in TC would match it.
I tried some cheapas fast tech 316ss coils in TC in the same type tank with the same exact juice and it seemed weak af at 420F
I got some premium SS430 today, made some nice twisted 4mm coils for my Plus and set everything correctly and SHAZAM! it's pretty damn good at 420F.

I've enjoyed 69-75W for about a year.
I turned all my mods down to 45-50W since Tuesday and now I'm used to it.
I tried 70W tonight and it tastes funny now.
I OUAT decided to vape the way I like until I believe there's a reason not to.
Now I have enough of a reasonable doubt that "hot as I want" might not be safe so I'll adjust until I see proof that it's safe to vape any which way I want.
New plan
20W lower than before and give TC an honest try. I like it so far.
On my SX350j YiHi.

 

[Joergl100]

Water? VG, flavouring from Baccararose and nicotine...nothing else. Water in liquids is a silly thing...enough water in the inhaled gas-humidity-mixture...called air, that we breath!

Calm down. Evolve study...muahahahaha!

ArcticFoxPanic?

EScribe...hmmm...nice, but much, much too expensive!

We, the poor ones, do not need that elitar scrub. We love our Fox!

 

[Lessifer]

It's been bugging me for many pages once I realized how much discussion has been about dry-hits. It wasn't directed at you.
Just clearing the air if I might.

Dry hits are being discussed because:

I hope you trust that I'm not one to dismiss any scientific information.

There's a lot being discussed and mingled in this thread. There were actually three "studies."

1. Wang - who heated pg, vg, and e-liquid in a steel tube reactor(not a simulation of vaping) and found the temperatures at which the various liquids release the various compounds and how much. It starts to get bad at roughly 450F.
2. Evolv - collected user data on coil temperatures of their users, they found that users are routinely going above 450F, even low wattage users. They then theorized that because of what Wang found and their data, many vapers re exposing themselves to these compounds. What they did NOT do is confirm that COIL temperatures above 450F result in the formation of these compounds.
3. Kurt - tested various atomizers, reported the results of a subtank at 0.5ohm and up to 35w(I think), and they did not detect any of the compounds outside of dry puff scenarios. He also found that mixing VG, which has a high boiling point, with other liquids that have lower boiling points, does bring down the boiling point of the mixture considerably.

So, like most things in vaping, there's no actual evidence that you need to be worried, but there's no evidence that you're completely safe either. If you want to be extra special cautious, you might want to look into TC.

See number 3 up there? That's the only vaping scenario that has actually been shown to produce the aldehydes.

 

[Cosmic_Glaze]

My opinions are just that, my opinions.
My posts are indeed in good faith, and in no way a "shill" for anyone.

I believe in TC, and yes I own a bunch of Evolv stuff, but I also have owned Yihi and Dicodes boards, just happen to like Evolv's the best.

I am a modder and a vape geek:
Look through my blog
Look through my posts.

• The "WeekEnder"
• The "Girlie" Mod
• https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/posts/17595439/

I am also the 5th on the Top Traders list for this whole site for Co-ops I ran for everything from Silica Wick, to Vamos, to DNA boards.

So if you question my "good faith" please look through my history here first.

If Evolve want to sell more mods it would be nice if you could update using a MAC..... it's held me back from spending all the money on one and not be able to take full advantage of the device.... currently looking for a device now that is comparable to a DNA and compatible with a MAC..

Companies rush products out that say TC but do not work correctly in TC.. I don't understand why. That's a y product..

Examples..... Sigelei, god awful TC devices. That been proven through tests. Some of them you can't even update.
Smok Alien was released with bad TC settings. Fixable with a Windows computer after the updates, but your out of luck if you have a MAC..Many other companies as well..

My point is you can come up with 470 f for a safety number then run it on a crappy TC device (with a popular name)but you never really know what the temp is because they are so off.. yes I know about manual TCR settings, but the average vaper should just have to put in the wire type n vape away..

Joytech and Eleaf do both Mac n Windows for updates..there are others as well, wish all companies just gave the options for both, considering they are not putting out a quality finished product that performs as advertised by rushing the R&D process..

 

[Katdarling]

Not going to lie.

If you did, would you tell us?

Thanks for the 'splanation, Johnnyv.

 

[Mowgli]

Dry hits are being discussed because:


See number 3 up there? That's the only vaping scenario that has actually been shown to produce the aldehydes.

We're also discussing boiling point of juice in #1
Proven reliably or not.
Keeping the wick wet won't change temp at point of vaporization.
Point of vaporization producing chemical changes needs further testing.
...and keep your wick wet bro

 

[Don29palms]

The safest way to not inhale carcinogens is not smoke or vape. The safest way to not get run over by a train is to stay off the tracks. The safest way to not get hit by a car is stay out of the street. Risk management because NOTHING is truly safe. SAFE means the absence of risk.

 

[Lessifer]

We're also discussing boiling point of juice in #1
Proven reliably or not.
Keeping the wick wet won't change temp at point of vaporization.
Point of vaporization producing chemical changes needs further testing.
...and keep your wick wet bro

Right.... but the boiling points of all of the liquids we're talking about are below 470F. So, if the liquid vaporizes before it reaches 470F, regardless of what temperature the coil reaches, do we still have a potential problem?

Remember that the only time chemical changes have been noted in actual vaping equipment is when that equipment was pushed to a dry puff scenario.

 

[NU_FTW]

Water? VG, flavouring from Baccararose and nicotine...nothing else. Water in liquids is a silly thing...enough water in the inhaled gas-humidity-mixture...called air, that we breath!

Calm down. Evolve study...muahahahaha!

ArcticFoxPanic?

EScribe...hmmm...nice, but much, much too expensive!

We, the poor ones, do not need that elitar scrub. We love our Fox!

I think you are missing the underlying information here.. especially since VG is the most likely culprit of possible toxins of the ingredients.. not saying PG is without sin, just that VG produces toxins at lower temps than PG... either way, cannot 100% discount the POSSIBILITY that these toxins are being created but 100% question how/when/why they are created... i would never be naive enough to say it is impossible to happen in my juice just because i DIY using VG ....