New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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I'm not so sure it really matters what any of us think, SMT. Do YOU think it's in the 'safe' range?
@-SMT- , with a heat flux of about 73 mW/mm² you would have to run that puppy pretty much dry before the wire temperature got hot enough to create anything nasty. Vape on my friend
Did you run that on Steam Engine? I suspect their heat flux results are not very realistic for twisted builds. A twisted build loses quite a bit of effective surface area due to the strands being in contact with each other compare to a parallel build, and I don't think they account for that properly, if at all. This effect is particularly pronounced when you get to 3 (or more) strands.@-SMT- , with a heat flux of about 73 mW/mm² you would have to run that puppy pretty much dry before the wire temperature got hot enough to create anything nasty. Vape on my friend
I got some 30 guage stainless yesterday to replace the 28 guage i've been using and like the results so far. I want to confirm the temperature accuracy of the build. I set the ohm value where it needed to be to barely singe cotton at 420 F. That turned out to be about .02 ohm higher than what the mod and my standalone meter indicated. It would be nice to have a second test to confirm the accuracy of the first test or that takes the place of the cotton test. I just started some searching and stumbled on infrared temperature sensors at consumer prices. May be there is one that has a very narrow focus so it can look at something as small as a vaping coil. if yes may be kanthal wire temp could be estimated by blowing on the exposed coil when it's wicked and juiced up and may be the temperature sensor could estimate the temp even with vapor boiling off the coil?
Yes I did. Just had a quick look at the calculator and there does seem to be something funny happening. I'm going to have to have another look at it when I'm more awake and can concentrate a bit better.
OTOH, even if they are out by a factor of 2 it would still be a cold HF. I think we're safe with this build
No way of tellin' with any prox what @-STM-'s driving without the pitch of twain he's wrapping. Don't recall seeing a Ø. But I'd wager it's colder than a dead witch's teat at 18W.
Now is it producing any vapor or just the slow boil? Hard to say if he discovered the perfect vacuum set on his Kay's. So mebe Kat's right and he's found the adequate minimum that works on his rig. What would be wrong with an extreme tootie anyway? Just the opp of what so many are doin' these days.
The issue has always been as it pertains to this discussion…what is the practical reproducibility of that unicorn?
Good luck all.
Now is it producing any vapor or just the slow boil? Hard to say if he discovered the perfect vacuum set on his Kay's. So mebe Kat's right and he's found the adequate minimum that works on his rig. What would be wrong with an extreme tootie anyway? Just the opp of what so many are doin' these days.
The issue has always been as it pertains to this discussion…what is the practical reproducibility of that unicorn?
Good luck all.
@-SMT- , with a heat flux of about 73 mW/mm² you would have to run that puppy pretty much dry before the wire temperature got hot enough to create anything nasty. Vape on my friend
Yep, I wonder about that. Just how (safe) cool is. Or whether?
There must be somethin' to why so many find a range not much over 15W satisfying (even long after quitting).
Good luck.
Yep, I wonder about that. Just how (safe) cool is. Or whether?
There must be somethin' to why so many find a range not much over 15W satisfying (even long after quitting).
Good luck.
I would guess, the volume is about the same as a drag off a cigarette.
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Yeah, think it involves keeping their nicotine levels (mg/ml) high enough.
I figure people find it necessary to increase their power levels and how deeply they inhale when they start decreasing the nic levels too much/too fast. Personally, I think that's a mistake when it comes to "risk". Inhaling more stuff (PG, VG, flavorings) more deeply to get to the same amount of nicotine into one's body cannot be better than inhaling less of it.
^Agreed
My vape is fabulous for me. I vape 18mg nic, and my kayfuns produce amazing flavor.
I dont need huge clouds, i desire flavor and nic hit, and after 5 years experimenting I'm totally satisfied with my setup.
I see my friends vape huge clouds watching them cough and wonder how thier lungs are gonna hold up.
I do have high power setups also that i bought to see if I "liked the vape better" (Goon on dna250 running dual claptons @0.2 and 80 watts.... meh... I prefer my kayfuns).
I have found, higher nic level and flavor is way more satisfying... and my setup produces great vapor, not huge clouds...but great satisfying vapor all around.
I have tried every imaginable wire build on my kayfuns, but when i put twisted kanthal it ended my search...flavor like my clapton without difficult cleaning, and fast rampup.
Anyways, i posted in this thread asking if my setup was relatively in the safe temp zone.. and i thank you all for the input so far. I think some of you'd be shocked the vapor i get off 19watts.
My vape is fabulous for me. I vape 18mg nic, and my kayfuns produce amazing flavor.
I dont need huge clouds, i desire flavor and nic hit, and after 5 years experimenting I'm totally satisfied with my setup.
I see my friends vape huge clouds watching them cough and wonder how thier lungs are gonna hold up.
I do have high power setups also that i bought to see if I "liked the vape better" (Goon on dna250 running dual claptons @0.2 and 80 watts.... meh... I prefer my kayfuns).
I have found, higher nic level and flavor is way more satisfying... and my setup produces great vapor, not huge clouds...but great satisfying vapor all around.
I have tried every imaginable wire build on my kayfuns, but when i put twisted kanthal it ended my search...flavor like my clapton without difficult cleaning, and fast rampup.
Anyways, i posted in this thread asking if my setup was relatively in the safe temp zone.. and i thank you all for the input so far. I think some of you'd be shocked the vapor i get off 19watts.
Hi, Myrany. I'm not going to pretend that I completely understand it, but I was taught by my learned ECF friends to just stay in the heat flux green zone for my simple single coil builds, which is, generally speaking, under 250. I aim for 200 or less and I'm happy.
I'm sure someone will have a better explanation for you, this is just my
My sentiments exactly. I've always been vaping defensively and I'm OK with that vaping style. Minimum or no flavorings, 12 mg, MTL. I don't always inhale.
I need my nic and something to take care of my hand-to-mouth fixation.
YMMV, as always.
Thanks my little Birdie Friend. I think my question on it got lost in the shuffle before you rescued meHi, Myrany. I'm not going to pretend that I completely understand it, but I was taught by my learned ECF friends to just stay in the heat flux green zone for my simple single coil builds, which is, generally speaking, under 250. I aim for 200 or less and I'm happy.
I'm sure someone will have a better explanation for you, this is just my
Thanks my little Birdie Friend. I think my question on it got lost in the shuffle before you rescued me
If you really want to know more, here goes:
Picked up from my post on thermal output and efficient coil design, some suggestions…Subtank RBA builds? show em! | Page 21 | Post #408
Heat flux is the measure of thermal output. What's good is the level of warmth you enjoy. That gets the max out of the juices you like. Some are really full cool. Many require warmth like tobacco. But not too hot or you mute flavors. Usually the accents.
I enjoy a range roughly between 150-200 mW/mm² although I do go a bit lower and sometimes considerably higher. Generally towards the higher with 18650's, lower with 18490 mech's. With variables I go for the highest capacity I can handle and is best for the chip. See Mod range | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators.
I'd suggest building (and bookmarking) some variations labelled as I have with some of the parameters like Ø, turns, etc. so you can compare them side by side. Choose the wattage input your most likely to enjoy in each one to force the mW/mm² calculation. I use the output wattage at 4.2v at the wound resistance for mechs. It'll be different for each wind. For variables, I use my maximum target wattage at the usually optimal resistance for the box. You'll start to get a sense of what you can expect after you build a few using this approach. And also to learn to match as best as possible the output of your mechs to what your getting out of your variables.
There ya go. Have at it, and good luck!
p.s. Calc your total thermal output vs total surface area of your wind/s. However…consider always that it's wetted contact surface that delivers the energy. Aspect ratio of the wire can send more of it out to air diffusing the vape (not vaporization). Even more so for multi wire. This means you're going to require more power and need to design the build for it. Why I recommend a properly oxidized contact coil for beginners so they can appreciate what an efficient wind can deliver.
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