New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[mikepetro]

Never hurts to Ask.

Oh, I think I can talk a mod into it, a few have supported me in my efforts, the real question is - is it worthy of a sticky? (Guess that kind of depends on its credibility)

Or would we be just better off posting it once in a while.

 

[zoiDman]

Oh, I think I can talk a mod into it, a few have supported me in my efforts, the real question is - is it worthy of a sticky? (Guess that kind of depends on its credibility)

Or would we be just better off posting it once in a while.

Why don't you run it by Oliver and see what He Thinks?

 

[awsum140]

I think it has good credibility. The methodology is excellent and the test gear is NIST traceable plus you use recognized sources for outside citations. The information is concise and applies to just about every style of vaping other than cloud chasing. Personally, I think it should be a sticky on the main pages, instead of Broke Dick, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Eskie]

I am cross posting this here since it is testing these tiny azz coils that is driving me too this:

OK, I admit it, I am getting old, or at least my eyes say so.

I am looking for some design similar to below but with a 5x magnifications at a focal distance of 12".

A casual search of Amazon only turn up junk.

Can anyone point me in a direction where I can find a proper pair? Or any other adequate design, they dont have to be inexpensive, but they do need to be good quality.,

These are junk, and inadequate., or at least the pair I have is.

Many thanks for those for offer suggestions.

Not sure if they have 5X, but here's one sourceLoupes & Magnifiers

Not cheap, but no question about do they work.

 

[MikeE3]

I am cross posting this here since it is testing these tiny azz coils that is driving me too this:

OK, I admit it, I am getting old, or at least my eyes say so.

I am looking for some design similar to below but with a 5x magnifications at a focal distance of 12".

A casual search of Amazon only turn up junk.

Can anyone point me in a direction where I can find a proper pair? Or any other adequate design, they dont have to be inexpensive, but they do need to be good quality.,

These are junk, and inadequate., or at least the pair I have is.

Many thanks for those for offer suggestions.

I've been using these for years for close work. They're light, easy to move or look around the lens but the max lens available is only 2.75x

https://www.amazon.com/MagEyes-Magn...e=UTF8&qid=1496746922&sr=8-2&keywords=mageyes

or with stronger lenses

https://www.amazon.com/MagEyes-Magn...e=UTF8&qid=1496747215&sr=8-1&keywords=mageyes

You can also buy the lenses separately

 

[mikepetro]

I've been using these for years for close work. They're light, easy to move or look around the lens but the max lens available is only 2.75x

https://www.amazon.com/MagEyes-Magn...e=UTF8&qid=1496746922&sr=8-2&keywords=mageyes

or with stronger lenses

https://www.amazon.com/MagEyes-Magn...e=UTF8&qid=1496747215&sr=8-1&keywords=mageyes

You can also buy the lenses separately

Whats the focal length, ie how far away from the work do you need to be?

 

[puffon]

The authentic Optivisor has different lens available with different focal lengths.
See the chart at the bottom:
http://www.doneganoptical.com/products/optivisor

 

[MikeE3]

Whats the focal length, ie how far away from the work do you need to be?

Using the 2.5x lens ... just about 12 inches (from the bridge of my nose) is the sweet spot for focus. But ... I wear transitional tri-focals and I think these have a 2 or 2.5x 'built in' so I don't know how that effects the headset's focal range. (with out my glasses nothing is in focus at any distance.

 

[mikepetro]

Using the 2.5x lens ... just about 12 inches (from the bridge of my nose) is the sweet spot for focus. But ... I wear transitional tri-focals and I think these have a 2 or 2.5x 'built in' so I don't know how that effects the headset's focal range. (with out my glasses nothing is in focus at any distance.

I have about the same progressive script myself.

 

[awsum140]

I can't wear progressives. Every line that should be perfectly straight, like a door jamb for example, ends up bowed and the longer the line the bigger the bow. Drove me nuts, or is that even nuttier?

 

[retired1]

Oh, I think I can talk a Mod into it, a few have supported me in my efforts, the real question is - is it worthy of a sticky? (Guess that kind of depends on its credibility)

Or would we be just better off posting it once in a while.

I have no issue with making something like this a sticky, but..... This is at 188 pages already. Getting someone to go through the entire thing to just get the meat and potatoes is unrealistic. If you were to boil it down into something that can be read on the first page or two, I'll be more than happy to work with you in getting it placed prominently.

 

[mikepetro]

I can't wear progressives. Every line that should be perfectly straight, like a door jamb for example, ends up bowed and the longer the line the bigger the bow. Drove me nuts, or is that even nuttier?

The later......

 

[mikepetro]

I have no issue with making something like this a sticky, but..... This is at 188 pages already. Getting someone to go through the entire thing to just get the meat and potatoes is unrealistic. If you were to boil it down into something that can be read on the first page or two, I'll be more than happy to work with you in getting it placed prominently.

Isnt this pretty much the meat and potatoes?
Concise articles on each topic, one blog post each?


Best Practices to avoid high temps on VV/VW mods.
VV & VW Mod Temperature Variables
Capillary action of silica vs rayon
Actual temperatures inside a Vivi Nova on both VV and VW devices.
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig.
Juice Boiling Point and Vaping Temperatures
Real Life temp measurements inside a 2016 era atty

ETA: It would be nice if I (or a gracious Mod) could add articles as I accumulate more testing, for example the Protanks are coming up next.

 

[mikepetro]

BUMP:

Is it worth asking the Mods to put this in a sticky?

Best Practices to avoid high temps on VV/VW mods.
VV & VW Mod Temperature Variables
Capillary action of silica vs rayon
Actual temperatures inside a Vivi Nova on both VV and VW devices.
Actual temperature inside VW Tootle Puffer rig.
Juice Boiling Point and Vaping Temperatures
Real Life temp measurements inside a 2016 era atty

 

[Ca Ike]

@mikepetro Your over thinking the whole flow rate thing. You already have the right set up. What's more important for wicking is absorption rate. How fast a wick pulls the liquid into itself is what determines wicking performance. Second to that is how much liquid a wick can hold once saturated.

All you have to do is rerun your test with a timer. Use a separate container like a soda bottle cap for each wick with a measured amount of liquid. Time how long it takes for the wick to become saturated. Then measure what's left in the liquid container.

The wick that absorbs fast and holds the most is the better wick.

 

[lil_buddy]

Best Pratices to avoid high temps on VV/VW mods.
(Draft v3)
Chime in folks .........
(I am getting ready to call this DONE!)
**********************************************************************




Context:

The RCP announcement got widely publicized as meaning that vaping was 95% safer than smoking, however the detail and context of the entire report has not been talked about nearly as much.

From the Royal College of Physicians, 11 St Andrews Place, Regent's Park, London NW1 4LE

"E-cigarettes and long-term harm - the possibility of some harm from long-term e-cigarette use cannot be dismissed due to inhalation of the ingredients other than nicotine, but is likely to be very small, and substantially smaller than that arising from tobacco smoking. With appropriate product standards to minimise exposure to the other ingredients, it should be possible to reduce risks of physical health still further. Although it is not possible to estimate the long-term health risks associated with e-cigarettes precisely, the available data suggest that they are unlikely to exceed 5% of those associated with smoked tobacco products, and may well be substantially lower than this figure."

Please note the part highlighted in green. What they are saying is that there is "probably" more we can do to make vaping even safer!

Also note this statement from the University of Cambridge Cancer Institute:

"We also know that different users use different devices and liquids. So it could be that some are safer or more harmful than others. And people also use the devices in different ways. So further work needs to be done to understand these differences, so that each vaper is using their device as safely as possible."

Now, two new studies have come out by Wang and Guiss that suggest that carcinogens (like formaldehyde) start getting produced at high temperatures. I have proven, in some of my other blog posts, that our coils can indeed reach these temperatures quite easily (without being Dry Hits).

IMHO, the best way to avoid high temperatures is to use a TC mod and set the temp below 450f (ish). However, if you dont choose this option for whatever reason, I have attempted to compile a set of "Best Practices" that a VV/VW mod user can employ to help keep their temperatures at lower levels.

"Best Practices"

• Avoid Chain Hitting
  • Chain hitting a non TC mod will definitely, and sometimes very significantly increase the coil temperature, regardless of voltage or wattage settings. I have proven this with direct thermocouple measurements. What happens is the coil doesnt get a chance to cool between chain hits, so subsequent hits are already starting with a preheated coil. The more chain hits in a row, the hotter the coil will get each time.
• Diligently replace/clean your coil when they get gunked.
  • Gunked coils inhibit heat transfer, and the most common reaction is for a user to increase their power to compensate for the weaker hit, resulting in higher coil temps.
    
  • There is also data that suggests that burning the carbonized junk on a coil gives off its own set of extra nasties.
  • Juices with high percentages of flavoring, certain specific flavors (often darker ones), and high levels of sweeteners, are known for gunking coils faster.
    
  • If your hit seems to be getting weaker, check your coil for gunk.
• Ensure good coil saturation via good wicking
  • If you starve a coil for juice, the temperature WILL rise on a non-TC mod. The more power hungry your coil, the better your wicking needs to be. Silica is a bad choice for wicking, if you have the option, do select something else.
• Select a lower boiling point juice if you have a "variable" (VV or VW) mod.
  • What a lower boiling point juice allows you to do is "lower your settings" to achieve a similarly satisfying hit, which will result in lower temperatures. Lower point liquids include those with lower VG content, or if high VG then diluted with 5-10% of distilled water.
• If using a top coil tank, take a few extra precautions
  • Refill when tank is no more than half empty.
  • ALWAYS do a swirl to ensure that the exposed wick is fully saturated before every hit.
• Take shorter, even if more frequent, hits.
  • The longer the hit the higher the temperature gets, this has been proven via accurate instrumentation.

Using these "Best Practices" will greatly reduce the probability of venturing into the questionable higher temperature ranges.

There are actually about 18 variables that affect coil temperatures in a VV/VW mod. A major one is air flow across the coil. Please see this blog for more info if you are interested.

I really appreciate these tips.

I can do all this except the last point. I really enjoy taking long hard drags which is how I smoked cigarettes. When I decided to try to step up from the protank/aerotank to the iJust2 and the toptank mini I found these subohm tanks did not suit that style at all and I did not like the adjustments I had to make in my inhalation style.

Right now I am focusing on my coil building skills and figuring what kind of liquids I like (I mostly hate everything).

I tried to use TC on the kBox mini that came in the topbox kit, but I don't think it functions properly. I do plan on using TC in the future, but I haven't seen any mods that tempt me into buying. Until I find something, I'll just stick to your tips.

 

[mikepetro]

@mikepetro Your over thinking the whole flow rate thing. You already have the right set up. What's more important for wicking is absorption rate. How fast a wick pulls the liquid into itself is what determines wicking performance. Second to that is how much liquid a wick can hold once saturated.

All you have to do is rerun your test with a timer. Use a separate container like a soda bottle cap for each wick with a measured amount of liquid. Time how long it takes for the wick to become saturated. Then measure what's left in the liquid container.

The wick that absorbs fast and holds the most is the better wick.

I see the logic in that as well. Still pondering.

One thought was maybe starting with 0.11g of each fiber, let it sit in juice in the exact same rig for 2 hours (or whatever), then weigh how much juice is in each wick (subtracting the tare). We already know the capillary speed part from the first test, this second test would give the maximum holding capacity per mg of fiber.

I will eliminate the hemp and silica in the next test, since they pretty much failed the capillary test. Even if by chance the hemp held more fluid, who cares if it cant move it fast enough.

I really think we are down to splitting hairs though, all 4 performed well IMHO, maybe the capacity thing will differentiate them.

 

[mikepetro]

I really appreciate these tips.

I can do all this except the last point. I really enjoy taking long hard drags which is how I smoked cigarettes. When I decided to try to step up from the protank/aerotank to the iJust2 and the toptank mini I found these subohm tanks did not suit that style at all and I did not like the adjustments I had to make in my inhalation style.

Right now I am focusing on my coil building skills and figuring what kind of liquids I like (I mostly hate everything).

I tried to use TC on the kBox mini that came in the topbox kit, but I don't think it functions properly. I do plan on using TC in the future, but I haven't seen any mods that tempt me into buying. Until I find something, I'll just stick to your tips.

Use what you can, it all helps.......

 

[classwife]

@mikepetro
I guess you don't need me to reply to your PM any more then ??

 

[mikepetro]

@mikepetro
I guess you don't need me to reply to your PM any more then ??

I dunno know. I guess we are waiting on retird1 to mske a call.

Sent from phone, please excuse fat thumbs and autocorrect.