New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

[classwife]

I have this really terrific idea...

Put the imaging host help stuff in the thread in Site Feedback and Help thread :

For those of you that use Photobucket to link images on ECF

 

[mikepetro]

I have this really terrific idea...

Put the imaging host help stuff in the thread in Site Feedback and Help thread :

For those of you that use Photobucket to link images on ECF

I "think" I did that yesterday, didnt I?

For those of you that use Photobucket to link images on ECF

 

[iLoveSalts]

I know in my heart vaping is safer then inhaling smoke

 

[classwife]

I "think" I did that yesterday, didnt I?

For those of you that use Photobucket to link images on ECF

I dunno...did you ?

 

[Burnie]

Interesting, ClipBucket is included in "Softaculous" that comes with my hosting package.

View attachment 672263

But none of them are supported by Xenforo (ECF)

View attachment 672265

I didn't notice that about ClipBucket until I got it all installed, uploaded a video, then tried to link it in the sandbox, no workie. Many hours wasted for nothing.

 

[awsum140]

Been there, done that, wayyyy too often.

 

[MikeE3]

Did you try this, they say it works with the free version:

Install via web installer
1. Download the web installer
2. Upload this file to your target destination (usually public_html folder)
3. Open your website target destination URL and follow the install process

I just tried this ... it seemed to work. My public folder was populated with the application files. But oddly when the install finished and redirected to the app I got a 404 not found error.

Even more odd at the moment is when I type in the url ..../public/index.php I still get the 404 error but the directory and file are there ... at least I can see them w/ my FTP client.

Giving up for now. Sleep time.

Still no joy with getting this working ... may 'cause I'm on a windows host w/ IIS and not Apache. My PHP version is ok. Enough of this though.

I just wanted to comment that my posts were marginally on 'on topic'. For the hours I spent putzing w/ this I've been vaping a DNA 75 (.65Ω SS316 coil, 30 watts, 410F). If it wasn't for following this thread from the beginning I wouldn't have picked up a couple TC mods for the wife and me a week ago.

We've both transitioned and are liking the vape and feel we don't have to guess if we're in the 'safe zone'. Already have a couple more TC mods on the way.

Thanks for all the time, research, expense and occasional grief for hosting this thread.

(err, umm, we've been Provape fans for a long time, they will be hard to give up)

 

[tiburonfirst]

occasional grief for hosting this thread

no worries! he's used to it!

 

[mikepetro]

Still no joy with getting this working ... may 'cause I'm on a windows host w/ IIS and not Apache. My PHP version is ok. Enough of this though.

I just wanted to comment that my posts were marginally on 'on topic'. For the hours I spent putzing w/ this I've been vaping a DNA 75 (.65Ω SS316 coil, 30 watts, 410F). If it wasn't for following this thread from the beginning I wouldn't have picked up a couple TC mods for the wife and me a week ago.

We've both transitioned and are liking the vape and feel we don't have to guess if we're in the 'safe zone'. Already have a couple more TC mods on the way.

Thanks for all the time, research, expense and occasional grief for hosting this thread.

(err, umm, we've been Provape fans for a long time, they will be hard to give up)

OMG, a Provari convert! Thats saying something.

Glad you are liking the vape though, cause if you dont then whats the use!

 

[mikepetro]

no worries! he's used to it!

You aint kidding. Yesterday I went back through every one of the 214 pages fixing the pics. When I reread some of those earlier flame posts I wondered how in the h3ll I made it through.

 

[retired1]

But none of them are supported by Xenforo (ECF)

I didn't notice that about ClipBucket until I got it all installed, uploaded a video, then tried to link it in the sandbox, no workie. Many hours wasted for nothing.

iframe embedding is risky at best, and usually a nightmare. A lot of cross site scripting attacks come via iframe. There's a reason XenForo doesn't support it, and sites that do so do it at their own risk.

Use a direct link using image tags.

As for video embedding, it's doubtful we'd add each individual personal server domain in order for it to display like a youtube video.

 

[Jumpin' In...]

. . .

I put a stock 2.2ohm cartridge in a Protank2 on a 20w IStick and at 6-7w measured 500f at the coil. And I vaped those samples and they did NOT taste burnt.
View attachment 670063

Forget the micro-grams of formaldehyde per puff in the Wang study, it doesnt correlate to our attys. They exposed 100% to the given temperatures where we expose only ~50% of our juice, because much of our juice never hits the coil but vaporizes off the wick at a lower temp. Nobody has done a study yet, to my satisfaction, that shows the true amount we get per puff. That gets into all of those 18 variables and will differ from atty to aty and from user to user.

What the Wang study showed us is that formaldehyde is being generating when we allow our coils to get too hot. And I have proven that we cant taste "too hot" until you are way past the degradation point.

The point being is that Wang proved that TEMPERATURE MATTERS!

Now, lets keep it in perspective. It is still far safer than smoking cigarettes, no doubt about it. But if we can educate ourselves and adapt our vape styles to safer temperatures, then we expose ourselves to even less potential harm.

If I recall correctly the iStick 20 boosts but doesn't buck, so are you really firing at 6-7 watts? Don't mean to argue the main point here; I'm already pretty much all-in with TC.

I know there's a lot of other stuff going on right now but I wanted to post this before I forgot.

Edit/addendum: Great job bringing this to our attention, @mikepetro, as well as for all the free time and $ you've spent helping test other members' set-ups! Thank you!

 

[dangkhoa02106]

English is not my tongue language so it is hard to understand all the information, please correct me if I misunderstanding.
So if I reduce the percentage of vg in my juice, using TC method (with SS wire and the temperature is below 400F), increase the air intake: I will be in safe zone.
Am I right?

 

[Eskie]

English is not my tongue language so it is hard to understand all the information, please correct me if I misunderstanding.
So if I reduce the percentage of vg in my juice, using TC method (with SS wire and the temperature is below 400F), increase the air intake: I will be in safe zone.
Am I right?

You English is excellent and you are able to cut right to the takeaway information in this thread.

If the temperature information actually occurs in a real life tank and coil, then your vaping will have less aldehyde production, and perhaps a somewhat safer vapor to inhale than not.

 

[mikepetro]

I have a Nautilus and a TFV8 Big Baby, both with stock coils, on the testing schedule. Wont happen this weekend as I will be out of town, but should be able to do them next week.

 

[kiba]

lol, can't wait for the tfv8, which coil did you get... is it the one with the standard 16 coils, or did you go for the 24 coil one?

Won't mind seeing the nautilus data too for my sister, she uses radii's and kabuki's, loves her provari's so won't switch to TC.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Bigbob2322]

Can't wait to see Nautilus data myself.

 

[GeorgeS]

Can't wait to see Nautilus data myself.

I operate my Nautilus in TC mode with a VVTF v1 RBA and NiFe48 flatwire.

No need for temperature readings here.

 

[RedForeman]

They exposed 100% to the given temperatures where we expose only ~50% of our juice, because much of our juice never hits the coil but vaporizes off the wick at a lower temp. Nobody has done a study yet, to my satisfaction, that shows the true amount we get per puff. That gets into all of those 18 variables and will differ from atty to aty and from user to user.

Forgive me for not reading past about page 7 then skipping to the end. It's an interesting study. This is not directed at you, but the quote is what I was after. It sort of leads me to the thoughts I have from what I did read.

The over-analysis makes my head hurt worse than consecutive dry hits. But I get it, it comes with the territory of internet debate.

Anyone ever put a paper cup of water on a camp fire? I never tried using a bellows or an oxy/acetylene torch to make the fire hotter, so maybe you could get one to burn up at some higher temp than plain fire. Or not. Regardless, I'm thinking the wick in my KFL+ works sort of like the paper cup on the fire.

Based on that paper cup on the fire experience, I'd venture a guess that your 50% number is still way higher than reality. Of course that's an entirely unscientific and unsubstantiated guess. I'll even violate my aversion to analysis and suggest that the mass of that liquid saturated wick is more than sufficient to protect the user from extraordinary toxin levels. Well except in a CE4 LOL.

Maybe I missed it in the 205 pages I skipped over: At what temp does a typical e-liquid vaporize? As-in putting a drop on an adequately calibrated heating surface and increasing the temp until vapor appears? I think it would be interesting to know that if you have vapor, your temp is at least nº. Or at least the temp of enough of the liquid has reached some temp, regardless of what the actual wire temp is. Nothing in the posted charts mentioned the wick cross section or attempted to measure the volume of liquid contained in the atomizer assembly.

Then, why is it that these studies always use some overly elaborate dipping mechanism to simulate vaping, instead of just attaching a hose to the top of a device and sampling the product directly? The first thing I go to when I see a chart like those is an attempt to align the act of actually vaping to what is on the chart. If I don't see that connection, I can't conclude much from it.

I had to chuckle about the baking analogy (oven that won't go over 350º won't burn your food, or at least not convert it into toxic gases). Well anyone that ever fell asleep with food in the oven and burned their house down won't buy that. Or how about baking cookies in an ez-bake oven using a light bulb for a heat source?

I guess my point in all this is: nothing is absolute. Take these remarks as food for thought, not criticism. It's an interesting discussion that I will probably read back the rest, eventually.

 

[Layzee Vaper]

@RedForman

This is quite a long thread now... Finding the relevant information is kind of difficult amongst the 200 odd pages.

You might want to take a quick look at Mikes blog https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blog-entry/mike-petros-blog-index.7875/unread

His blog has info on the boiling points of liquid, wick materials, actual measurements of the coil temps, he is gradually building up some relevant data as more users send him kit to test.

What we do with that information, with regard to our own individual vape set-up is personal preference..

Unless one of the big manufacturers gives us some results from the testing they will have undoubtedly conducted this is about the best information we can get at the moment.

Hopefully in the long term we will get more information, that shows that in real world vaping situations there is little risk even with higher VG juice at higher temps, but until then my own personal decision was to use higher PG liquids and reduce the temperature.