New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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I don't think power mode is inherently unsafe. I think the accuracy of temperature versus power allows for a standard independent of the hardware, tank, or coil chosen. Safe power selection requires far more consideration of the coil and tank selection in assuring some "buffer" to assure lower risk. Temp control eliminates that by providing independence from those assumptions.
I do understand that the majority of vaping occurs in wattage/power mode so mainstream testing may still be stuck there, but if and as temp control becomes more popular, researchers including Dr F will have to adjust their testing methods to keep up. Too bad the research will be following rather than leading the industry into safer approaches.
I do understand that the majority of vaping occurs in wattage/power mode so mainstream testing may still be stuck there, but if and as temp control becomes more popular, researchers including Dr F will have to adjust their testing methods to keep up. Too bad the research will be following rather than leading the industry into safer approaches.
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The trouble with finding safe power selection is how do you know the power you select is safe. It has already been proven that nasties can be produced way before you can taste them. It is pretty simple to me,all vaping is safer than smoking. To be even safer requires the use of accurate TC.
That statement CAN be accurate but not always. If you are using TC but setting it too high, then no it may not be any safer than someone using a lower wattage in power mode. Even then, if someone is using power mode and is using a wattage that keeps the temp in a safe range, it is just as safe as using TC. Of course there is no way to know for sure in power mode. However, using TC and setting it in a known safe range is the only way to come as close to a guarantee as possible that what you are doing is safe.
I'm going to make a bold statement based on a number of observations.
'Most power mode vapers are vaping at temperatures over 440F'
What I have observed using TC is that very little vapor is produced under 350F. In most cases satisfying vapor is not produced until 400F+.
Prior to TC kicking in to restrict the power the temperature of any build increases dramatically and continously until the power is shut off or regulated, regardless of airflow or wicking.
I assume that the vast majority of power mode vapers have set the power to the point at which they near instantly produce a satisfying amount of vapor.
Therfore they reach temperatures of over 400F almost instantly.
With the power constantly applied for something between 1 and 6 seconds depending on vaping style, the coil is constantly increasing in temperature throughout the draw.
While good wicking will dissipate some of the power to vapor, and large volume airflow will slow (but not cease) the speed at which the coil increases in temperature, I suspect that most power mode vapers vape through a range of temperatures in every draw, and that the upper temperatures they are reaching are above 440F.
'Most power mode vapers are vaping at temperatures over 440F'
What I have observed using TC is that very little vapor is produced under 350F. In most cases satisfying vapor is not produced until 400F+.
Prior to TC kicking in to restrict the power the temperature of any build increases dramatically and continously until the power is shut off or regulated, regardless of airflow or wicking.
I assume that the vast majority of power mode vapers have set the power to the point at which they near instantly produce a satisfying amount of vapor.
Therfore they reach temperatures of over 400F almost instantly.
With the power constantly applied for something between 1 and 6 seconds depending on vaping style, the coil is constantly increasing in temperature throughout the draw.
While good wicking will dissipate some of the power to vapor, and large volume airflow will slow (but not cease) the speed at which the coil increases in temperature, I suspect that most power mode vapers vape through a range of temperatures in every draw, and that the upper temperatures they are reaching are above 440F.
They just found out what they did about the 450°F threshold fairly recently didn't they ?? So, who's to say that as time goes by, that that threshold will be lowered even more, again due to safety concerns.
I am running 7 watts, 28g Kanthal, 2mm coil, with Rayon wick @ .95Ω, and another with 1.18Ω and 2.5mm coil (all else the same and both MTL) in two different setups, and a third is a HohmTech G2 with Kanthal 28g, 3.5mm coil, KGD @1.32Ω set to xxx mode and FSK of 11 (it just starts to fire), @93°C and 16 watts R-DL. All coils spaced. I purposely set my rigs up minimally, each and every time. The only problem with my HohmTech devices is that one can set them all the way up to 700°F if one wishes, which someone out there prolly does, just because 700°F is available.
Has anyone found a repeatable way to measure Temp's of a coil as from what I have seen, a thermo-couple is rather hit and miss as to it's location within a coil.
I am running 7 watts, 28g Kanthal, 2mm coil, with Rayon wick @ .95Ω, and another with 1.18Ω and 2.5mm coil (all else the same and both MTL) in two different setups, and a third is a HohmTech G2 with Kanthal 28g, 3.5mm coil, KGD @1.32Ω set to xxx mode and FSK of 11 (it just starts to fire), @93°C and 16 watts R-DL. All coils spaced. I purposely set my rigs up minimally, each and every time. The only problem with my HohmTech devices is that one can set them all the way up to 700°F if one wishes, which someone out there prolly does, just because 700°F is available.
Has anyone found a repeatable way to measure Temp's of a coil as from what I have seen, a thermo-couple is rather hit and miss as to it's location within a coil.
(I type slow, so please don't fall asleep Caterpiller)
I pick my wire gauge depending on the usage I intend it. I never go bigger than 28g Kanthal A-1, and not more than 6 wraps, spaced. I also use ArcticFox firmware on my WisMec devices and thus have the option of Curves in Power mode, so I can throttle either up or down the power as I vape, and I choose to throttle the Power down thinking that the temp will naturally climb as I vape.
I know a lot (as I have read different posts thru the years) want more and Bigger Power ya know (if 200 watts is available, their rational is "Why Not"), so I hear what you are saying, and to those folks, there is not much help.
Done !!
I pick my wire gauge depending on the usage I intend it. I never go bigger than 28g Kanthal A-1, and not more than 6 wraps, spaced. I also use ArcticFox firmware on my WisMec devices and thus have the option of Curves in Power mode, so I can throttle either up or down the power as I vape, and I choose to throttle the Power down thinking that the temp will naturally climb as I vape.
I know a lot (as I have read different posts thru the years) want more and Bigger Power ya know (if 200 watts is available, their rational is "Why Not"), so I hear what you are saying, and to those folks, there is not much help.
Done !!
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I saw Danial of DJSlb vapes try using one of those once, and even he had his problems with it getting an accurate reading.
I do have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, but for the life of me I can't find a way to use but 2 fingers when I type. Sorry folks.
Those work Great on a car radiator, but in the confines of a small coil, therein lies the problem as I see it, else I would have already bought one myself.
I have never tried myself, I have just seen them used to measure air temps coming out of A/C systems, measure temps of ovens/stoves and things like that. I also know that while Amazon has a bunch of "consumer level" versions for as low as $9 or $10, there are some "professional versions" elsewhere for up around $100. Maybe one of those would work better.
I seem to have put Caterpiller to sleep, Dang it.
Possibly Scott, might work.
Possibly Scott, might work.
Has it been already said that a spaced coil is cooler running than a contact coil ?? I don't know if it has, but it seems like it would.
I would think that those that tend to want to vape as safe as possible are already doing at least some of the precautions to do so, and those that don't care, aren't.
I would think that those that tend to want to vape as safe as possible are already doing at least some of the precautions to do so, and those that don't care, aren't.
I seem to have put Caterpiller to sleep, Dang it.
Actually he is in Malaysia so it is 1:47PM there now. Most likely he was posting on his lunch break. He will probably be back in a few hours.
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