New Variable Voltage device from smoktech?

[John D in CT]

I looked it up and it seems Batt U puts IMR and LiFEPO4 in same "most safe" catagory:

However I also found this in CPF:



MarkFM do you concur?

Skip, in post 717 I noted that you are correct and that I had confused the LiFePO4 with the LiPo. Can we move on to the more substantive part of this discussion?

I've always been interested in the phenomenon in which one error in an otherwise fairly sound argument can cause it to be dismissed in its entirety. I hope that's not the case here.

 

[adami]

If someone can provide any hard evidence of a lithium manganese battery "exploding" in a way that could be reasonably expected to have a strong chance of injuring someone while vaping at the time of the "explosion", I'd like to see it. Yes, I have read data sheets on LiMn batteries where the manufacturer states "battery may explode", but I think we're all aware of the sometimes extreme precautions taken by manufacturers to protect themselves in an increasingly litigious environment, especially, it seems, in the United States of America. I'd like to stick to cold, hard science, and not CYA hyperbole, regardless of who engages in it or why.

Have some anecdote: an AW IMR will definitely vent hot gas in a failure. A guy I know was carrying his in his pocket with his keys (don't do that, it's totally stupid). I watched it happen. He escaped unscathed but if the battery was in an unvented container that's a recipe for an explosive situation.

If I'd known he was doing that I would have given him a battery case and much needed advice before it happened.

 

[John D in CT]

Have some anecdote: an AW IMR will definitely vent hot gas in a failure. A guy I know was carrying his in his pocket with his keys (don't do that, it's totally stupid). I watched it happen. He escaped unscathed but if the battery was in an unvented container that's a recipe for an explosive situation.

If I'd known he was doing that I would have given him a battery case and much needed advice before it happened.

As I said, I was looking "hard evidence of a lithium manganese battery "exploding" in a way that could be reasonably expected to have a strong chance of injuring someone while vaping at the time of the "explosion" ".

As you said, "he escaped unscathed", as I suspect would be the case for the vast majority of people who experienced the exact same thing, even if they were vaping at the time. PV gets hot, you drop it.

As for "but if the battery was in an unvented container that's a recipe for an explosive situation":

OK, sounds dire. "Recipe for an explosive situation". But is it? And if so, what is the nature of the "explosion"? If you watch the video of the shorted IMR battery, even in an unvented container that allows very little room for the expansion of gases, would that create an explosive event that could reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury? The container might very well pop open, but from a battery heated to under 500F, I don't see how it would be a violent and dangerous event. Add to that the fact that most PV's are at least vented, and I think the risk for personal injury declines even further.

I hope to do some experiments to determine just what the worst-case scenario might be regarding an internal short of an IMR battery in a tightly-sealed container, but I predict that it will not make for a very exciting video.

(Sorry to interrupt the "feeding frenzy" - please continue ... or not).

 

[John D in CT]

In other news, I just received an email from lighthound.com that they have AW IMR 18350 700mah's back in stock:

https://www.lighthound.com/Batteries-carriers-testers_c_20.html

 

[VAPNJ350]

Is lighthound cheaper than rtd or superTmanufacturing....shipping included ??? ....curiousity.

 

[John D in CT]

Is lighthound cheaper than rtd or superTmanufacturing....shipping included ??? ....curiousity.

Scroll back; why would I feel inclined to tell you? Have you read your mail lately?

And after you "liked" Post 715? I can see those you know. (?)

 

[six]

Fazed and PBusardo have reviewed this device now. You can find pbusardo on can i taste your juice or youtube. Fazed is on youtube and all about vapor -- as well as on episode 24 of vape tv.

The pulse width modulation is messed up. It's supposed to have a 5 amp switch. The pulse width jumps as high as 9.6v and as low as 3.0v. Spin on a 1.5 DC and set it to 5.0v. then what happens? the sign wave shows a max output of 9.6v and low range 3.0v.'

9 volts (even ever so briefly in bursts) is hitting 6 amps through the switch. with a 1.5 ohm carto set as low as 3 volts. Those bursts of 9 volts and above generate 6 amps. The switch is supposed to be rated for 5 amps. I couldn't handle a dual coil at the 5.0v setting because the pulse peaks out way above that 5 amp limit. That made a dead mod for Fazed. here is the vapetv ep 24.

Fazed also had more than one issue with the build quality. One of the things he didn't like will probably not disappoint too many people (though for the price, it would make me mad), and the other thing he didn't like is that the second unit was unable to accept the recommended batteries.

Finally, the first unit failed and he was unable to complete the review. At 5.0v with a regular 1.5 ohm DC, he smoked the switch. -- The pulse width is out of whack and generates spikes in voltage that get well in to the 9.0v and above range - which of course makes it need 6+ amps.

Look forward to a lot of smoked switches.

 

[Bahiaboy]

Lost me a bit with that one ??
Had mine nearly 24 hours now and works fine !! Build quality is excellent and Battery's fit perfectly ??
I haven't got a clue about the technical issues you mention but there again I'm just a plug and play type person it works great for me with clouds and clouds of Vapor and Flavour which to me is what it is all about surely ??
The other bonus as far as I'm concerned is definitely the Price 93€ for the full kit including shipping .......

 

[John D in CT]

Lost me a bit with that one ??
Had mine nearly 24 hours now and works fine !! Build quality is excellent and Battery's fit perfectly ??
I haven't got a clue about the technical issues you mention but there again I'm just a plug and play type person it works great for me with clouds and clouds of Vapor and Flavour which to me is what it is all about surely ??
The other bonus as far as I'm concerned is definitely the Price 93€ for the full kit including shipping .......

Yeah, speaking of hand grenades, I think six's post is going to put battery discussion on the back burner indefinitely.

I'm at about the four-minute mark of Fazed's review.

Man, such blatant bias. Right out the box (no pun intended):

Calls it a would-be "ProVari killer"? His words, not any I would say, or have heard anyone sensible claim.

"You get a VMax - and a box - and that's it?" (Holds up empty box). Yup, it's empty all right. Glad you understand what you were purchasing.

"Batteries, charger - if you have ALL THAT - you're ready to vape". OK, I'll try somehow to acquire all those things.

"Very odd end cap vents". ????? You're criticizing the arrangement of the vent holes? (???) Bye bye objectivity.

"End cap doesn't fit very well, and doesn't thread very well". Mine's fine, but OK ....

Trouble putting the end cap on after putting both batteries in the device? I put one battery in the tube, the second in the end cap, and "Presto".

Button fires even when you don't intend it to?? "This fired several times in my pocket, cooking a carto in the process".
Well don't put it in your pocket without turning it off? Maybe?

"Very cheap-feeling?" Subjective; okay.

"For $30 more, you can have a ProVari". I recall hearing that before ....

"Not impressed with the price point; if it was half of that ... mmmmm ...maybe" You might consider it at $64? Cool!

Not sure if I can stomach the rest, but I'll give it a good shot. So far, this guy strikes me as "Rasmussen Polls", to Phil Busardo's "Real Clear Politics'" average of all leading polls.

Six, I feel the urge to take you to task a little bit as well, but skip, Errol, VAP, P3, and roq should be able to provide a healthy balance to your post.

 

[skipdashu]

Yeah, speaking of hand grenades, I think six's post is going to put battery discussion of the back burner indefinitely.

I'm at about the four-minute mark of Fazed's review.

Man, such blatant bias. Right out the box (no pun intended):

Is this the guy who spent the price of an LT mounting a Buzz top on his broken LT?

 

[John D in CT]

Is this the guy who spent the price of an LT mounting a Buzz top on his broken LT?

Sounds like a story I might like to hear more about skip ..... and which guy - fazed, i'm guessing?

 

[skipdashu]

Fazed and PBusardo have reviewed this device now. You can find pbusardo on can i taste your juice or youtube. Fazed is on youtube and all about vapor -- as well as on episode 24 of vape tv.

The pulse width modulation is messed up. It's supposed to have a 5 amp switch. The pulse width jumps as high as 9.6v and as low as 3.0v. Spin on a 1.5 DC and set it to 5.0v. then what happens? the sign wave shows a max output of 9.6v and low range 3.0v.'

9 volts (even ever so briefly in bursts) is hitting 6 amps through the switch. with a 1.5 ohm carto set as low as 3 volts. Those bursts of 9 volts and above generate 6 amps. The switch is supposed to be rated for 5 amps. I couldn't handle a dual coil at the 5.0v setting because the pulse peaks out way above that 5 amp limit. That made a dead mod for Fazed. here is the vapetv ep 24.

Fazed also had more than one issue with the build quality. One of the things he didn't like will probably not disappoint too many people (though for the price, it would make me mad), and the other thing he didn't like is that the second unit was unable to accept the recommended batteries.

Finally, the first unit failed and he was unable to complete the review. At 5.0v with a regular 1.5 ohm DC, he smoked the switch. -- The pulse width is out of whack and generates spikes in voltage that get well in to the 9.0v and above range - which of course makes it need 6+ amps.

Look forward to a lot of smoked switches.

Your 'tech' is off a bit...

1) "It's supposed to have a 5 amp switch" - No it's not. It has a 5 Amp regulator.
2) "...pulse width jumps as high as 9.6v and as low as 3.0v." - No it doesn't. Pulse width is a measurement of time NOT voltage. The wider, longer time the pulses stay high the higher the average voltage.
3) "the sign wave shows..." - It's not a sign wave. It's a square wave.
4) "is hitting 6 amps through the switch" - No, I doubt if the switch is even seeing 90ma since I'd bet money it's connected to an inhibit pin on the regulator to turn it on/off.

The device was purchased by a Provari vendor for him. Wonder why they bought it and picked him? Is the same guy who spent the price of an LT modding a Buzz top onto his broken LT?

I'm not going to get into the Provari vs Vmax debate. Personally I suspect in many aspects the Provari is a better device. However, I can't help but notice that when the Provari gets weighed or priced it's without the extension cap but when testing it's with it. A black Provari with extension cap is a dime under $204 not the "$30 more than a Vmax" that keeps being quoted. I see one site has VMaxs for ~$99 now. For ME and me alone, the Vmax + $104 still in my pocket is close 'nuff.

The Good Order of Provari (henceforth and hitherto to be referred to, after the secret handshake, as the GOOP) has begun to gather for the inquisition! LOL

 

[Bahiaboy]

The price difference in Europe is a mind boggling $220 !!!!! I would have probably bought the Provari but the cost in EU is ridiculous !!!

 

[skipdashu]

The price difference in Europe is a mind boggling $220 !!!!! I would have probably bought the Provari but the cost in EU is ridiculous !!!

“Let your vision be world embracing…”

 

[Bahiaboy]

“Let your vision be world embracing…”

Or let your wallet be lighter

 

[fuzzione]

Already Fazed's youtube feedback is generating negative commentary about the vmax so his 'Part 1 Review,' as laughable as I find it, may be having the desired effect. One has to question the motivation of posting a part 1 review when he hasn't even shown how the device vapes. Why wouldn't you simply wait until you got a fully functional unit so you can show people how it actually performs?

The specific unit he uses is suspicious to my eyes...almost looks like a used example or one that's been through a washing machine a few times. I have no paint irregularities on the connection like he complains about and the end cap on mine works perfectly, is secure and the batteries fit fine. Furthermore, I have to be very deliberate in pressing the fire button for mine to light up; highly unlikely I would ever accidently trigger it.

I started an owners thread here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-smoktech-vmax-owners-tips-tricks-quirks.html wherein a problem with the vmax ceasing to function is discussed and resolved; I'm wondering if that's what Fazed encountered with his unit. If so, it would have been a simple fix to reinsert the batteries but I doubt there was any motivation to troubleshoot the problem. "Yay! It's broken!"

One sure does wonder, as has been stated, about the legitimacy of a 'review' involving a vender who markets Provari, then buys a vmax for review by this particular individual. The entire presentation looks slanted to head in a certain direction from the start, IMHO.

I'm far from a fanboy, have no brand loyalties and would be the first to voice disatisfaction over the vmax, even though I bought one, if it turned out to be crap. I don't care who makes it, I just want good value in my vaping hardware. So far, I've experienced that from the Vmax at 1/2 the cost of a Provari.

 

[fsroq]

fuzzione whrote:

"So far, I've experienced that from the Vmax at 1/2 the cost of a Provari."

And that is the problem, so make a review and get it down in the dirt.

 

[fuzzione]

I think there's enough info on the internet already, particularly actual user experiences, for a smart shopper to become better informed and make the right decision for themselves. In my case, and as skipdashu has expressed above, I could not justify paying double the price for what the Provari might offer me over the Vmax. Others may have a different view and still wish to pay that extra premium; I'm totally fine with that. Just keep vapin!

 

[six]

4) "is hitting 6 amps through the switch" - No, I doubt if the switch is even seeing 90ma since I'd bet money it's connected to an inhibit pin on the regulator to turn it on/off.

So, you are saying that when the oscilloscope registers a peak of 9.6v (as it did for fazed and pbusardo), that 9.6v didn't actually enter the circuit? No matter how brief the time, the scope registered that as a peak while loaded. Only the average between peak of 9.6 and 0v (the bottom on both their scopes wasn't much above 0 - not sure why I typed 3, maybe because that's where pbusardo had his set when he was hitting 9.6v peak... must have been on my mind)...

No. If the peak was scoped to be 9.6v with a 1.5 ohm resistor load on the circuit, that doesn't negate ohms law because it happened in pwm and there is an average to be considered. The average is actually not to be considered when calculating the max amps. Calculating max amps, the only thing to consider is the load and the peak voltage.

Fazed was pretty tough on the device and maybe even unfairly so... but then it did fail, so maybe not unfairly so. Tough to say. pbusardo was much more positive, but his didn't die during the same testing. He did note that the pwm was not acting as expected (he stopped short of saying malfunctioning, but did say poorly tuned). And, he probably should have compared his numbers etc with the jokerAV he has instead of the provari since the jokerAV uses the same sort of regulator.

 

[Str8V8ping]

One thing i know about Pbusardo is from being a fan of his is that if he doesnt like something he will say it but a lot of times in a way where he doesnt offend anyone. You could kind of tell he thought more since he left out other cons he mentioned earlier in his review.Thats how it looked to me anyway.Im sure he know a lot of vmax fans would put him on blast in a second if he said the wrong thing. Fazed is more say what he sees. I wouldnt call him a Provari fan boy. He has even done reviews where he liked the BP over provari. Just because a person does like the Provari doesnt mean someone cant enjoy a different mod too.