Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment
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Just leave it out in room temperature for a while--it will get there. All it takes is a little warmth, UV light and a bit of oxygen.
Thank you for sharing this.@coldgin96, here's a link to TFA's flavor storage statement:
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/shelf_life.pdf
In the "for what it's worth" category; my concentrates are stored in a linen closet (dark & cool). I have some that are approaching the 4+ year mark (bottled in a variety of glass, PET and HDPE), and remain perfectly usable for my needs. As always; YMMV.
I’m sure this has already been discussed here but I’d rather not have to sift through the entire thread, I’m wondering what people think about Vaper’s Tek nic? I’m looking to buy more nic for the stash and the only kind I’ll never buy again is the chemnovatic nic, otherwise I welcome suggestions.
Also, is it correct to assume that the MFS 200 mg nic would oxidize more quickly and therefore not appropriate for long term storage? Thanks in advance!
Also, is it correct to assume that the MFS 200 mg nic would oxidize more quickly and therefore not appropriate for long term storage? Thanks in advance!
I dont think concentration affects oxidation. Per molecule of nic, if stored properly, ie frozen with very little headroom in a glass bottle, higher concentrations should not oxidize any faster.
I have much higher strengths, about 5 fold, than you mention in my freezer for 4 years now with no discernible oxidation at all.
Thanks. In your opinion is the smell test sufficient to decide if it’s too oxidized? I ask because with vaping, if I like the smell I usually like the taste and the nic that I deemed unvapable smelled quite bad.
I've had 100mg/ml Nic from MFS (2 liters) and Nicotine River (1 liter) stored in Glass 100ml Boston Rounds for 1 year and 2 years. Both were clear when I checked them for clarity and returned them to the freezer. You definitely want clear nic when you plan to store for a long time. I kept one 100ml bottle out for DIY use abd it stays in the fridge. It's also clear after a year in the fridge.
My experience is that -- at room temperature -- especially in a bottle with lots of head space, stronger nic does oxidize faster. My usual 13-15 mg unflavored, ready-to-vape base (65 VG) doesn't darken or get funky tasting even if leave in that state for several months, but every time I've done that with 100 mg base, it does darken and get funky (as one can see with the samples in this thread).
However, I agree with you that in stored properly (glass, minimal head space, in the freezer) it almost certainly doesn't matter.
The head space is key if at room temp.
Oxidation of nic is a function of temperature and available oxygen.
Molecules of nic will be oxidized by molecules of oxygen. I dont recall the exchange reaction rate of molecules, but if you have a lot of head room then you have a lot of oxygen molecules to oxide the nic molecules. Where if you have only a tiny bit of head room there arent nearly as many oxygen molecules available. The oxygen will (at room temp) oxidize the nic molecules until the oxygen molecules are depleted, then oxidation stops. Tiny bit of headroom, not many oxygen molecules and not much nic oxidized, lots of headroom then lots of oxygen molecules and lots of nic molecules get oxidized.
Opening the bottle allows more oxygen molecules to enter and then even more nic gets oxidized.
The oxidation reaction slows down as temperature is reduced.
This BTW was info I got from our own Dr Curt.
As for the appearance, a little bit of oxidation in stronger nic may appear darker because it isnt diluted as much.
Here is a pic of 1000mg nic
Here is nic dispensed from that exact same Mason Jar about an hour later but diluted down to 100mg.
AT first glance one would think the top bottle was more oxidized, but in reality the bottom bottle is just more diluted (by 90% P/VG) so the color is not as noticeable. The nic molecules in both bottles are equally oxidized.
Oxidation of nic is a function of temperature and available oxygen.
Molecules of nic will be oxidized by molecules of oxygen. I dont recall the exchange reaction rate of molecules, but if you have a lot of head room then you have a lot of oxygen molecules to oxide the nic molecules. Where if you have only a tiny bit of head room there arent nearly as many oxygen molecules available. The oxygen will (at room temp) oxidize the nic molecules until the oxygen molecules are depleted, then oxidation stops. Tiny bit of headroom, not many oxygen molecules and not much nic oxidized, lots of headroom then lots of oxygen molecules and lots of nic molecules get oxidized.
Opening the bottle allows more oxygen molecules to enter and then even more nic gets oxidized.
The oxidation reaction slows down as temperature is reduced.
This BTW was info I got from our own Dr Curt.
As for the appearance, a little bit of oxidation in stronger nic may appear darker because it isnt diluted as much.
Here is a pic of 1000mg nic
Here is nic dispensed from that exact same Mason Jar about an hour later but diluted down to 100mg.
AT first glance one would think the top bottle was more oxidized, but in reality the bottom bottle is just more diluted (by 90% P/VG) so the color is not as noticeable. The nic molecules in both bottles are equally oxidized.
My 4 year old Vapers Tek nic kept in the freezer is still very nice and clean to me. I use the Vapers Tek in my fruits and dessert vapes and then use my WL nic in my tobaccos.
Aaah, so if you get nic that’s pale yellow, you shouldn’t use that particular batch for long term storage?
Many thanks. How about the smell? Should we go by looks alone?
The head space is key if at room temp.
Oxidation of nic is a function of temperature and available oxygen.
Molecules of nic will be oxidized by molecules of oxygen. I dont recall the exchange reaction rate of molecules, but if you have a lot of head room then you have a lot of oxygen molecules to oxide the nic molecules. Where if you have only a tiny bit of head room there arent nearly as many oxygen molecules available. The oxygen will (at room temp) oxidize the nic molecules until the oxygen molecules are depleted, then oxidation stops. Tiny bit of headroom, not many oxygen molecules and not much nic oxidized, lots of headroom then lots of oxygen molecules and lots of nic molecules get oxidized.
Opening the bottle allows more oxygen molecules to enter and then even more nic gets oxidized.
The oxidation reaction slows down as temperature is reduced.
This BTW was info I got from our own Dr Curt.
As for the appearance, a little bit of oxidation in stronger nic may appear darker because it isnt diluted as much.
Here is a pic of 1000mg nic
Here is nic dispensed from that exact same Mason Jar about an hour later but diluted down to 100mg.
Also, how much head room are we talking? Just enough so the cone cape doesn’t displace the liquid?
AT first glance one would think the top bottle was more oxidized, but in reality the bottom bottle is just more diluted (by 90% P/VG) so the color is not as noticeable. The nic molecules in both bottles are equally oxidized.
My gut reaction is: It won't get any worse if properly stored in the freezer. But of course it won't get any better either.
I think you mean, "subjective"? I agree. There will be differences in perception.
Oh? Some year, when I'm done with them, I should give you all my room temperature samples.
I didn’t want to start a new thread so I am gonna ask my question here. I have a liter of 100mg/ml of 50/50 nicotine salts that came in a plastic bottle (from nicotine river). I usually have my nic in glass but I thought it would be better to leave it in the original bottle even though it’s plastic because I didn’t need any for several months at least. So for you folks that have stored nicotine which way will keep it fresher? Unopened but in plastic, or open and transferred into glass? Inquiring minds want to know.
I didn’t mention it but it IS stored in my freezer.
I didn’t mention it but it IS stored in my freezer.
I keep my unopened nic liters in the original bottle in the freezer for some time before transferring to glass, partially due to freezer constraints, partially due to laziness. The longest has been three years before re-bottling, and the liquid is clear as water. Cold as possible with minimal headroom is more important to me in the initial timeframe to minimize all chemical reactions. Glass for the long term though!
When it comes to salts, it's my understanding that they are less likely to oxidize. If that's the case, perhaps early rebottling would be optimal to prevent any possible plastic leaching. Introducing a little more oxygen during that process would have less impact than freebase.
When it comes to salts, it's my understanding that they are less likely to oxidize. If that's the case, perhaps early rebottling would be optimal to prevent any possible plastic leaching. Introducing a little more oxygen during that process would have less impact than freebase.
I've not seen a huge difference between glass and plastic in my tests in this thread. If you're talking about months rather that many years, I'd have no compunctions putting it in the freezer in the un-opened plastic bottle it came in.
Just in case this hadn't been mentioned before (I didn't run across it). Freebase nicotine is colorless, but salt nicotine is not. Instead of a liquid, the refined product is a crystalline form of nicotine. The term "salt" is a reference to the crystals, which are salt-like in appearance. The crystals are brownish in color, and even diluted to 100mg/ml, there is still some color. The salt nic that I get from LNW is a pale amber color.
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