Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

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440BB

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Nic arrived in good order. No odor, no discoloration. No, I'm not trying to be elegant by photographing it in a wine glass (I'm not known for being especially elegant). It just happens to be the ONLY clear glass I have in this house other than a Good Seasons salad dressing bottle and that is too thick and blurry.
View attachment 844251

The best part of decanting is getting to use Rossum's white electrical tape. :)
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Congratulations on all that peace of mind!
 

Rossum

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Nic arrived in good order. No odor, no discoloration.
Can you look for a lot/date/batch code on the bottle, please? I know of at least one person who got some horrible looking stuff from NR recently.

Nice cubby on bottom right of my chest freezer.
Oh, the old false bottom in the freezer trick! :thumb:

ETA: Still room left for the meat from at least one deer. :sneaky:
 
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zoiDman

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I think this depends on what you consider "long term" and also what kind of plastic it is. The WL nic that this thread started with was in PET (#1 recycling code) in a freezer for 2-1/2 years before I put it in glass for the test. I actually had four of those plastic bottles and mixed/vaped the other two. They were fine. But I still wouldn't trust it for decades.

And then there's the other plastic that nic might ship in, HDPE (#2 recycling code). HDPE is roughly 50 times as permeable to oxygen as PET is. I've not done any testing with HDPE, in part because I'm not aware of any clear HDPE, but given its high oxygen permeability, there's no way I'd leave nic in #2 plastic for any length of time.

Just a Heads Up on Recycling Codes...

When you see a Recycling Code, say #2, that does Include HDPE. But HDPE, in this Context, is really a Family Group Plastics. Which includes Many HDPE Hybrids/Variants, 1st Use, Partially Recycled, and Various Quality Grades of HDPE. Each having Varying Degrees of Physical/Chemical Properties.

Not say'n that a 1st Use High End HDPE can beat out a Low End PET when it comes to something like Oxygen Permeability.

Just Mentioning that like Stainless Steels, HDPE is a Group of Plastics.

:)
 

Bronze

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Congratulations on all that peace of mind!
And that it is!

Can you look for a lot/date/batch code on the bottle, please? I know of at least one person who got some horrible looking stuff from NR recently.
My 2.5 gallons came in 4 containers. (Qty 2) gallon jugs both from BATCH# 09262019-02-PG. The other containers were (Qty 2) liter jugs from BATCH# 09192019-02-PG.

Per your tip, I photographed both batches in a clear glass for future reference. Both were as clear as can be. Neither batch had any detectable odor.

This nic was made 2-3 weeks ago if the batch dates are to be believed. Kind of begs the question...how is Nic River storing this stuff?? We worry about our nic sitting in a hot semi trailer for a couple/few days.
 

Rossum

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Not say'n that a 1st Use High End HDPE can beat out a Low End PET when it comes to something like Oxygen Permeability.

Just Mentioning that like Stainless Steels, HDPE is a Group of Plastics.
Indeed, it that's true. But if I'm reading that right, you're agreeing with me that HDPE, no matter the variety, is likely be considerably more permeable to oxygen than PET?

Glass is the safer choice in any case because it is, for all intents and purposes, completely impermeable to oxygen.

I suppose stainless steel would be another material suitable for long-term storage of nic, but it's hard to find suitable stainless steel bottles at a reasonable price.
 

Rossum

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This nic was made 2-3 weeks ago if the batch dates are to be believed. Kind of begs the question...how is Nic
Yes it does. The person who received the yucky nic recently reported a batch code that implied it was made in May.
 

zoiDman

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Indeed, it that's true. But if I'm reading that right, you're agreeing with me that HDPE, no matter the variety, is likely be considerably more permeable to oxygen than PET?

...

I am.

And I also agree that Glass is the Preferred choice for e-liquid/Nicotine Base storage.
 

zoiDman

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...

I suppose stainless steel would be another material suitable for long-term storage of nic, but it's hard to find suitable stainless steel bottles at a reasonable price.

Once again, this is what/why I did that HDPE Post.

Because there are some Metal Alloys that some might call "Stainless Steel" that would be a Poor Choice to store an e-liquid/Nicotine Base. And there are some SS Alloys that most would consider to be "Inert" on a Geologic Time Scales.

And a Lot in between.

BTW - What, exactly, makes a Metal Alloy a "Stainless Steel" ?
 
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Jazzman

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I think this depends on what you consider "long term" and also what kind of plastic it is. The WL nic that this thread started with was in PET (#1 recycling code) in a freezer for 2-1/2 years before I put it in glass for the test. I actually had four of those plastic bottles and mixed/vaped the other two. They were fine. But I still wouldn't trust it for decades.

And then there's the other plastic that nic might ship in, HDPE (#2 recycling code). HDPE is roughly 50 times as permeable to oxygen as PET is. I've not done any testing with HDPE, in part because I'm not aware of any clear HDPE, but given its high oxygen permeability, there's no way I'd leave nic in #2 plastic for any length of time.

That was my first order from Nude Nic, and my first order of nic at all since this was my initial foray into the mixing hobby. I wasn't aware what their different versions of nic were or even what they were TBH, but likely you ordered their best product with inert gas that displaced oxygen and I order the cheaper product. I know why inert gas is important now, but had no idea then. Even if I had known about inert gas at that time, my conversation with a NN support person on the phone told me it would be best to transfer to glass so I guess the displacement gas would have been a waste for me. Being that I had never mixed in my life, and had no idea whether I would be any good at it or even enjoy it I purchased the cheaper nic and was told the nic itself was the same product. I couldn't tell you if they had an option for their Armor product available in glass at that time, so no idea. I did follow their instructions to use amber boston rounds for transfer to glass since they told me long term storage in their plastic bottles was not advised.

I kind of went wild with my jump into mixing buying over $600 in Nic, flavors, syringes, gloves, face mask, beakers, graduated cylinders, etc. Hey, don't judge me... I take my hobbies seriously! But I did try to research as best as I could given the amount of information that was available in late 2013. That was a heady time for vaping with groundbreaking products coming out on a weekly basis. And I thought the 2 Provari's I purchased within a month of starting vaping would be the only devices I would ever need. The vape shop I bought them from told me that was true. Hah! BTW, the face mask still looks like new and is in pristine condition, probably since I've never used it or taken it out of it's packaging.

For the salt nic from Nic River, this is the first nic product I have freezer stored in the original container. I read on their website that I could refrigerate or freeze it, so yeah. Because I value your opinion, I called Nic River yesterday to verify if their website was correct and the synthetic containers were OK to freeze long term and they said yes and they recommend that it's best not to unseal until I needed to use it. Not sure if they top fill with an inert gas, forgot to ask.

I guess if I trust a vendor with purchasing their nicotine, I tend to also trust their advice on proper storage. But that's not to say I might not regret that decision later, but for now I'll take the easy way and hope their advice was correct. But there is a distinct difference in the synthetic plastic type material I received from Nic River when comparing it to the 2013 Nude Nic material. Does it matter? I guess time will tell.
 

Rossum

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BTW - What, exactly, makes a Metal Alloy a "Stainless Steel" ?
I think it's primarily the chromium content, isn't it?

I agree that some "stainless steels" are far more corrosion resistant than others. My Florida house is 150' from the Atlantic ocean. There are times when it might as well be a salt-spray test booth outside. :ohmy:
 

Rossum

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That was my first order from Nude Nic, and my first order of nic at all since this was my initial foray into the mixing hobby. I wasn't aware what their different versions of nic were or even what they were TBH, but likely you ordered their best product with inert gas that displaced oxygen and I order the cheaper product. I know why inert gas is important now, but had no idea then. Even if I had known about inert gas at that time, my conversation with a NN support person on the phone told me it would be best to transfer to glass so I guess the displacement gas would have been a waste for me. Being that I had never mixed in my life, and had no idea whether I would be any good at it or even enjoy it I purchased the cheaper nic and was told the nic itself was the same product.
Hah! That first nic order of mine was two weeks after I stopped smoking without really intending too. If you had told me three weeks earlier that I would stop smoking in the foreseeable future, I would have told you you were crazy. I mean, I had given up on the whole idea of stopping smoking something like 10 years earlier.

Anyway, I didn't have a clue about DIY then, and no intention to get into it unless/until it was necessary, but there was no way I was going to let some stupid bureaucrat take this miracle away from me. So I specifically went looking for nic that was most suitable for long-term storage, because I figured it might be years before I needed it.
 

zoiDman

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I think it's primarily the chromium content, isn't it?

I agree that some "stainless steels" are far more corrosion resistant than others. My Florida house is 150' from the Atlantic ocean. There are times when it might as well be a salt-spray test booth outside. :ohmy:

When I was young, No One consider an Alloy to be True Stainless Steel unless it contained a Minimum of 15% Chromium (and Usually 5% Nickel or more).

Then it kinda became 12.5% Chromium.

Today, 10% seems to be more the Going Rate. And things made from "18-8" have become a Rarity.

Unless you are in an Operating Room. Or at the Dentist.
 

mcduffy

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    Yes it does. The person who received the yucky nic recently reported a batch code that implied it was made in May.
    Do you know which of their nic products it was?

    I just received a 500ml jug of 250mg nic from NR and holding it over a light bulb the liquid appears to be quite amber. Batch: 03182019-02-VG
     

    Rossum

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    Do you know which of their nic products it was?

    I just received a 500ml jug of 250mg nic from NR and holding it over a light bulb the liquid appears to be quite amber. Batch: 03182019-02-VG
    No, I do not know the exact product. But it appeared to be from May, and yours appears to be from March...:blink:
     

    Mowgli

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    Nice cubby on bottom right of my chest freezer.
    Zzzzzzzzz
    img_1273-phone-jpeg.844263
    That looks like the same maker as mine (Welbilt by Haier) but my cubby is on the left.
    USPS boxes are convenient but when there's a power outage the bottles sweat.
    A bunch of sweating bottles make a small puddle. In a freezer that's called a PITA.
    This was unplugged for a couple of days. It took an hour to clean & replace the lower USPS box.
    48076571748_3cce2571da_b.jpg
     
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