Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment
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What the hell, go for cryogenics and the entire nic hoard! The ultimate nic experiment at -150C.
'Aye-gor, we have a grave to inspect", said Young Fronkenstein.
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I applaud and appreciate the what I consider extreme methods of nic storage, but honestly I don't want or feel I need to go to those lengths. Ever since major nic retailers started packaging freezer ready nic that's what I buy and they go unopened into the freezer. I will transfer one container at a time to boston round dark bottles and store all but 1 in the freezer and keep one in my mixing storage closet with all my flavorings and mixing paraphenalia and use that for mixes. When that runs dry I retrieve the next boston round from the freezer.
Yes, it can be done much better with more effort, but honestly I have never had nic get smelly or dark this way so the ease of storage and use has been fine for me over years of mixing and using nic. I think this method probably requires evaluating how much nic you use to determine the working bottle size to match your mixing frequency and nic levels to insure you are not leaving unchilled nic out too long and that it is still kept in dark confines. But that's easy enough to determine by rough calculations or just experience of use. If I ever did have a working bottle go off on me I would just have to say "Well that"ll learn me" and change my storage methods I guess, but in the years I've been doing this that has never happened so I will continue the easy method until that changes.
I don't want to work hard at vaping, I just want to vape in as easy a manner as I can.
Yes, it can be done much better with more effort, but honestly I have never had nic get smelly or dark this way so the ease of storage and use has been fine for me over years of mixing and using nic. I think this method probably requires evaluating how much nic you use to determine the working bottle size to match your mixing frequency and nic levels to insure you are not leaving unchilled nic out too long and that it is still kept in dark confines. But that's easy enough to determine by rough calculations or just experience of use. If I ever did have a working bottle go off on me I would just have to say "Well that"ll learn me" and change my storage methods I guess, but in the years I've been doing this that has never happened so I will continue the easy method until that changes.
I don't want to work hard at vaping, I just want to vape in as easy a manner as I can.
What do you identify as "extreme methods"?
LOL... good question! I would describe extreme methods as anything that takes twice as long, or more, than opening a UPS box, removing the freezer ready bottles, and placing them in the designated area of the freezer. Maybe lame... but true.
Just 2 weeks ago a friend asked me to make a mix for her using FB instead of salts which I now prefer for various reasons, and I specifically pulled out my oldest bottle of FB which was not from a freezer ready storage container from Nude Nicotine and found it was just fine being stored since 2013 in this way with no obvious degradation in either color, smell, or taste. I told her what I did and if she didn't like it I would be happy to re-make with newer nic. She said it was great. BTW, she didn't notice any difference between salts and FB, but she just heard to many scare stories and didn't want to use salts. The scare stories came form non-vapers and non-smokers. Whatever right?
If there's one take-away from this thread, it's: Keep your nic cold!
The glass vs. plastic question is not as clear, but personally, I feel much more comfortable with glass.
Now I also bought almost all of my nic base "Freezer Ready", specifically 125 ml bottles of Armor V1 from NN. But it was pretty expensive in that form; my average cost was well over $100 / liter (probably closer to $150)
Since you apparently don't consider keeping nic in the freezer to be "extreme", the only other thing that remains is rebottling. I can understand why people do that. Bulk nic in liter-sized (or bigger) plastic bottles can be had for as little as $30-$60 per liter. That's a substantial savings, even if you add in the cost of some empty glass bottles. Of course, it's not as convenient, but I'd hardly call it "extreme".
If there's one take-away from this thread, it's: Keep your nic cold!
The glass vs. plastic question is not as clear, but personally, I feel much more comfortable with glass.
Now I also bought almost all of my nic base "Freezer Ready", specifically 125 ml bottles of Armor V1 from NN. But it was pretty expensive in that form; my average cost was well over $100 / liter (probably closer to $150)
Since you apparently don't consider keeping nic in the freezer to be "extreme", the only other thing that remains is rebottling. I can understand why people do that. Bulk nic in liter-sized (or bigger) plastic bottles can be had for as little as $30-$60 per liter. That's a substantial savings, even if you add in the cost of some empty glass bottles. Of course, it's not as convenient, but I'd hardly call it "extreme".
I don't disagree with anything you've said and have been a long time follower of you nic storage and degradation thread. Great reading and I've learned a lot. Both your and Mike Petro's input over a long period of time has taught me much about nic storage and results of doing it improperly. So for those inclined to do the extra effort I think that's great, I just don't see from experience that I want to work any harder than I feel I need to. Lazy..yes I suppose so, but I haven't seen negative consequences in 6 years so I'm OK with that.
When I was first buying nic in 2013 there was no other option other than to transfer purchased nic to glass bottles for long term storage, this was the predominant recommendation at the time and there was no freezer ready purchasing choices, if I recall that happened in 2015 when the proposed deeming regs were in full freakout mode. Since that time choices specifically for that are available, including glass bottle storage direct from the nic retailers if that is your choice (for additional cost). But I feel reasonably comfortable that currently shipped nic in non-glass containers from reputable nic retailers is adequate for long term and safe storage. I guess time will tell.
I give original non-glass storage a 2-3 year window in the freezer before I move them to glass. I've had four plus year old 100mg in the bottles Wizard Labs and RTS/Nicotine Giant use, two different types, with no apparent degradation in color or smell.
This strategy helps with minimizing storage space for the near term but going beyond a few years is a calculated risk I won't take. I'm targeting having good nic in the 10-20 year span and only trust glass to keep it as intact as possible.
This strategy helps with minimizing storage space for the near term but going beyond a few years is a calculated risk I won't take. I'm targeting having good nic in the 10-20 year span and only trust glass to keep it as intact as possible.
There are people hear who are vaping nic that's been in their freezer 8-10 years. A couple weeks ago I opened a 1 liter amber glass bottle that's been in my freezer since 2015. It came from MFS. It looks perfect and vapes as normal. (When I open a long term storage bottle for the first time I transfer the contents to 4 250 ml amber bottles for mixing.) I believe freezing in glass will preserve my nic for as long as I need it to. I don't believe nic is highly sensitive. I don't worry about seasonal weather for shipping. I've been preparing for this crazy time from the beginning and i'm prepared but still this is surprisingly stressful. I'll probably buy some more but going to be picky.
I placed my first order for nic base on December 31, 2013. That order was for Nude Armor. It may have been a relatively new product then, I'm not sure, but it was definitely available at that point. My order shipped on January 7, 2014.
I think this depends on what you consider "long term" and also what kind of plastic it is. The WL nic that this thread started with was in PET (#1 recycling code) in a freezer for 2-1/2 years before I put it in glass for the test. I actually had four of those plastic bottles and mixed/vaped the other two. They were fine. But I still wouldn't trust it for decades.
And then there's the other plastic that nic might ship in, HDPE (#2 recycling code). HDPE is roughly 50 times as permeable to oxygen as PET is. I've not done any testing with HDPE, in part because I'm not aware of any clear HDPE, but given its high oxygen permeability, there's no way I'd leave nic in #2 plastic for any length of time.
Okay. I'm weird. It's good to know. Because I have never been called that before. Never. Not even starting at the age of 3 where my evil older brother decided I was an obstacle I his path, and THREW me backward into a glass cabinet. I had to go to the hospital like, to get all the glass picked out.
So yeah, weird (green text here.)
Also is it weird that the husband's KIND act of like changing the EVIL SCARY vacuum cleaner bag FOR me sent me into a terminator fit of like CLEANING madness?
It's so clean in here I hate him. But clearly also love him very much. I mean.... I was like, "I know he says he loves me not my housekeeping but I bet he'd be happy if it was clean." Etc. So I cleaned I clean well for others.
The only time I consistently cleaned like SHOW house every day was when my doc had me involuntarily on Depakote for a year (ugh.; weird long story.) DEPAKOTE made me weird. And dumb. /And not me. But I do have to keep reminding myself that I had no job then and you can only go to so many AA meetings a day if you are me. I had this routine of SHOW house, walk the dogs (morosely) and gain 97 pound over the course of a year. So, I was like any other bored housewife. I even freaking IRONED the husband's shirts. Dude. Bored housewife number one jillion nd fifty seven. I hated so many things about that year.
I will take weird and POO to you, evil public psychiatrist doc. LOL once I got a REAL do and lithium, ran into him at a pizza joint. He kept looking over trying to figure out if the husband had replaced me with a new wife ,but my voice is distinctive. He was definitely confuse though because I lost all those pounds and I was also a blonde. I wanted to go over and say, "See what private insurance can do? only I felt itt might be mean.
LOL I will take weird thanks.
Anna
So yeah, weird (green text here.)
Also is it weird that the husband's KIND act of like changing the EVIL SCARY vacuum cleaner bag FOR me sent me into a terminator fit of like CLEANING madness?
It's so clean in here I hate him. But clearly also love him very much. I mean.... I was like, "I know he says he loves me not my housekeeping but I bet he'd be happy if it was clean." Etc. So I cleaned I clean well for others.
The only time I consistently cleaned like SHOW house every day was when my doc had me involuntarily on Depakote for a year (ugh.; weird long story.) DEPAKOTE made me weird. And dumb. /And not me. But I do have to keep reminding myself that I had no job then and you can only go to so many AA meetings a day if you are me. I had this routine of SHOW house, walk the dogs (morosely) and gain 97 pound over the course of a year. So, I was like any other bored housewife. I even freaking IRONED the husband's shirts. Dude. Bored housewife number one jillion nd fifty seven. I hated so many things about that year.
I will take weird and POO to you, evil public psychiatrist doc. LOL once I got a REAL do and lithium, ran into him at a pizza joint. He kept looking over trying to figure out if the husband had replaced me with a new wife ,but my voice is distinctive. He was definitely confuse though because I lost all those pounds and I was also a blonde. I wanted to go over and say, "See what private insurance can do? only I felt itt might be mean.
LOL I will take weird thanks.
Anna
I've read a number of times that once in solution nic does not separate, more so in PG than VG. I've always considered the jostling of shipping as an extra blending step, leaving concentrate well blended when it hits my door.
That said, when I pull a liter out of the freezer to decant it I give it a couple swirls and a shake or two before opening. I figure any oxygen originally in that bottle has already been spent in oxidation so a shake won't speed that process up. If I were to decant on receiving the nic I wouldn't bother, but my liters have been sitting unmoved in the freezer for a year or more.
Nic arrived in good order. No odor, no discoloration. No, I'm not trying to be elegant by photographing it in a wine glass (I'm not known for being especially elegant). It just happens to be the ONLY clear glass I have in this house other than a Good Seasons salad dressing bottle and that is too thick and blurry.
The best part of decanting is getting to use Rossum's white electrical tape.
The best part of decanting is getting to use Rossum's white electrical tape.
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