Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

[Rossum]

Nude Nicotine PG:

"Lightbox"

Natural light:

The story here is pretty much the same as with the VT, except this nic was even older; it had been in my freezer since 2014, in its original Armor V1 packaging.

The Freezer sample remains nice and colorless. The Fridge sample may have darkened just s tiny bit, and the Room Temperature sample, well... At this point, I would it's the darkest of all 12 of these.

 

[PeterKay]

That clarifies all the doubts I had before, thank you. Some folks claim that there's no need to store e-juices in the fridge or freezer. Since they contain nicotine, same chemistry applies to them as to nic bases. So yeah, either vape relatively fast or if you are planning to store for longer periods, freeze and fridge are your friend.

I wonder how much nicotine is lost or becomes harsh within the juice through steeping at room temperature...

 

[zoiDman]

Thanks for the Updates Rossum.

 

[Rossum]

Based on this relatively short-term test (just under 8 months), I would say it's definitely advantageous to keep nic (for example a working bottle) in your fridge rather than at room temperature. In fact, the refrigerator seems to be almost as good as the freezer.

All 12 of these samples are back in their respective homes (a kitchen cupboard in an air-conditioned house, a fridge, and my dedicated 2.1 cubic foot nicotine freezer). I'll update them again next year.

I also still have a bunch of the original samples up in PA that I'll update on when I'm back there, most likely either late August or early September.

 

[PeterKay]

The question I also ask myself: when juices steep, they become darker. How much of that darkening is caused by blending of the flavors, and how much of it is simply the prescious nicotine in the liquid going off?

Maybe steeping without nicotine at room temperature, followed by addition of nicotine and storage in the fridge afterwards, is a better alternative?

Many of the shortfills I've used were crystal clear when I got them. Once I added nic and left the bottle in room temperature, within days they all started yellowing, no exceptions...

 

[Bronze]

The question I also ask myself: when juices steep, they become darker. How much of that darkening is caused by blending of the flavors, and how much of it is simply the prescious nicotine in the liquid going off?

Maybe steeping without nicotine at room temperature, followed by addition of nicotine and storage in the fridge afterwards, is a better alternative?

Many of the shortfills I've used were crystal clear when I got them. Once I added nic and left the bottle in room temperature, within days they all started yellowing, no exceptions...

Some flavorings are darker in color so the mix will darken immediately. It will continue to darken with age. So both contribute to the darkening.

 

[Rossum]

That clarifies all the doubts I had before, thank you. Some folks claim that there's no need to store e-juices in the fridge or freezer. Since they contain nicotine, same chemistry applies to them as to nic bases. So yeah, either vape relatively fast or if you are planning to store for longer periods, freeze and fridge are your friend.

I wonder how much nicotine is lost or becomes harsh within the juice through steeping at room temperature...

I have found that lower nic concentrations seem to be affected less. I vape a lot of unflavored (35PG / 65VG / 15mg) and have never seen or noticed degradation in it even if it's at Room Temperature for a few months. I don't normally store it at ambient temperatures, but it sometimes a bottle gets left out when I go from one place to another, or a travel bottle stays in my vape kit...

 

[Rossum]

The question I also ask myself: when juices steep, they become darker. How much of that darkening is caused by blending of the flavors, and how much of it is simply the prescious nicotine in the liquid going off?

Maybe steeping without nicotine at room temperature, followed by addition of nicotine and storage in the fridge afterwards, is a better alternative?

Many of the shortfills I've used were crystal clear when I got them. Once I added nic and left the bottle in room temperature, within days they all started yellowing, no exceptions...

I am quite confident that this is an interaction between flavorings and nic. I've mixed 0 mg flavored juice using colorless flavors and it never darkens at all, even at room temperature. If I make the same recipe using pre-mixed vaping strength, unflavored juice, it starts to darken pretty rapidly, while the remaining pre-mixed vaping strength, unflavored juice stays colorless.

 

[PeterKay]

Some flavorings are darker in color so the mix will darken immediately. It will continue to darken with age. So both contribute to the darkening.

Same shortfill, nic added less than 2 weeks ago to the one on the right.
I mixed 2 different mg and vg/pg ratios, that's why I didn't add nic to the bottlethe shortfill came in.

 

[PeterKay]

I am quite confident that this is an interaction between flavorings and nic. I've mixed 0 mg flavored juice using colorless flavors and it never darkens at all, even at room temperature. If I make the same recipe using pre-mixed vaping strength, unflavored juice, it starts to darken pretty rapidly, while the remaining pre-mixed vaping strength, unflavored juice stays colorless.

That's an idea for another test- adding nic to shortfill and storing in the fridge to see how much darkening occurs after months of storage. I'll start it soon, I just need to get some shortfills ordered as th one in the pic is the last one I have.

 

[PeterKay]

I am quite confident that this is an interaction between flavorings and nic. I've mixed 0 mg flavored juice using colorless flavors and it never darkens at all, even at room temperature. If I make the same recipe using pre-mixed vaping strength, unflavored juice, it starts to darken pretty rapidly, while the remaining pre-mixed vaping strength, unflavored juice stays colorless.

If that's true then there is some chemical reaction between nic and flavorings, meaning there are products of this reaction being generated as it carries on. So, what do we really vape?

 

[Rossum]

If that's true then there is some chemical reaction between nic and flavorings, meaning there are products of this reaction being generated as it carries on. So, what do we really vape?

That's a very good question, but without a complete assay of what's in a particular flavoring, and then checking to see how each component of that flavoring reacts with nicotine, I would say it's impossible to answer it.

 

[PeterKay]

That's a very good question, but without a complete assay of what's in a particular flavoring, and then checking to see how each component of that flavoring reacts with nicotine, I would say it's impossible to answer it.

Sounds like a very complex study. But sooner or later someone will have to do it, at least with a number of basic and popular flavorings.

 

[zoiDman]

Sounds like a very complex study. But sooner or later someone will have to do it, at least with a number of basic and popular flavorings.

Like in a PMTA?

 

[CMD-Ky]

I guess I'd better take some new pictures then! My CX samples that included a set in the fridge rather than just room temperature and freezer are coming up on 8 months old soon.

Oh, and the sticky is an unexpected honor!

Without your advice, I would have left it as it arrived and placed it in the basement. Now, Mrs CMD is demanding a new freezer to replace the one commandeered for nicotine.

 

[PeterKay]

Like in a PMTA?

From my understanding, PMTA's are tools to kill vaping because government knows very well that it's impossible and very costly to come up so fast with reasonable studies that would support the application

 

[Rossum]

Without your advice, I would have left it as it arrived and placed it in the basement. Now, Mrs CMD is demanding a new freezer to replace the one commandeered for nicotine.

LOL -- Mrs Rossum told me, "Get your own damn freezer!" very early on.

I did not argue with her about it.

 

[CMD-Ky]

LOL -- Mrs Rossum told me, "Get your own damn freezer!" very early on.

I did not argue with her about it.

A wise man knows how to care for nicotine and when it is wise cut and run (for the nearest Best Buy appliance department).

 

[newyork13]

LOL -- Mrs Rossum told me, "Get your own damn freezer!" very early on.

I did not argue with her about it.

Thanks for your work!
My freezer is small, so I'm pleased I can store the nic in the back of the fridge.

 

[Katya]

I have found that lower nic concentrations seem to be affected less.

I agree. I switched from 100 mg/ml nic to 48 mg/ml after I read this on NN website (I think Kurt also wrote about it): "... – shelf-life varies largely by nicotine strength, as well as PG/VG ratio. Higher nicotine strengths will possess more nicotine molecules, less likely to be completely solvated by their carrier (PG/VG). Put simply – 100mg/mL formulations will keep for less time than a 24mg/mL formulation." It just takes more freezer space. I'm gonna need a bigger boat.

Also, I'm a little disappointed with NN's Argon nic--that's what I buy and store in my freezer, but I'm beginning to wonder about Argon. It doesn't look like it's doing all that much to protect the nic from oxidation compared to your other samples. Do you titrate your nic when you take it out of storage or just check for color/smell/taste changes?

Oh, NN says PG is better for long-term storage because of its low viscosity. Kurt argued the opposite--that VG is better because of high viscosity.

What's a girl to do!

Thanks again for your work! It's very helpful, indeed.