Nic Base Storage - Sub Optimum Conditions

[Caterpiller]

I found this quite interesting, thought some of you might also.

I've been storing a 250ml bottle of 100mg Nic Base in PG, in a toolbox under my desk in the office.

I tested it on arrival at 95mg, and again today (two months later). It tested again at 95mg.

So zero degradation after two months

Have to say I'm pleasantly surprised.

Although it's not getting any exposure to sunlight in the toolbox, I've repeatedly opened the bottle to make new batches (average once every two weeks), and it is subject to a lot of temperature changes.

The office is air conditioned 9-6, but not in the late evening or at weekends.

I've been in the office on a Saturday afternoon, just to pick something up, and it's darn hot in there. Outside temp is average 32c during the day, dropping down to 26c at night.

So all in all, seems the nic base is holding up well to sub-optimum storage

 

[r77r7r]

Me too. I think sunlight and air may effect it moreso. Helps to have really good mix to begin with.

95mg/ml doesn't seem a bit low to you?

 

[Caterpiller]

Me too. I think sunlight and air may effect it moreso. Helps to have really good mix to begin with.

95mg/ml doesn't seem a bit low to you?

My test kit has about 3% inaccuracy, so the nic base on arrival was 95mg +/- 3%.

It's a great nic base, and I'm not bothered if it's a few % shy of 100mg. I just calculate it as 95mg when mixing my batches.

I've not bothered to calculate how much less 12mg juice I can make with it compared with a 100mg bottle of the same size, but I think it's a tiny loss.

 

[B2L]

If my calculations are correct, and that's a big if before enough coffee, at 100 mg/ml a 250 ml bottle will make 2083.3 ml of juice (or 69.4-30 ml bottles) whereas at 95 mg/ml you will get 1984.1 ml of 12 mg/ml (or 66.1- 30 ml bottles) for about a 5% loss.

I would consider 2 months to still be pretty short term and would be interested in how it's holding up 6 months-1 year from now.

Interesting post, will you be updating from time to time?

 

[Caterpiller]

If my calculations are correct, and that's a big if before enough coffee, at 100 mg/ml a 250 ml bottle will make 2083.3 ml of juice (or 69.4-30 ml bottles) whereas at 95 mg/ml you will get 1984.1 ml of 12 mg/ml (or 66.1- 30 ml bottles) for about a 5% loss.

I would consider 2 months to still be pretty short term and would be interested in how it's holding up 6 months-1 year from now.

Interesting post, will you be updating from time to time?

Well done on the maths, I couldn't get my brain to engage on that one today

I plan to test this bottle once every 2 months to monitor any degradation. I'll post the results here

 

[Kurt]

My test kit has about 3% inaccuracy, so the nic base on arrival was 95mg +/- 3%.

It's a great nic base, and I'm not bothered if it's a few % shy of 100mg. I just calculate it as 95mg when mixing my batches.

I've not bothered to calculate how much less 12mg juice I can make with it compared with a 100mg bottle of the same size, but I think it's a tiny loss.

What kit do you have that has a 3% accuracy? The titration kits I've seen available cannot get this level of precision, more like about 15%. Precision depends on how many significant figures the acid is standardized to, multiple titrations to get low standard deviations, how close you can get to equivalence point with a blue-to-yellow endpoint, etc. If you have a kit that gives more precision than the usual kits, I would love to hear about it.

 

[Kurt]

Not that I doubt the longevity of your nic-base. They are surprisingly stable when stored in glass at room temp.

 

[Caterpiller]

What kit do you have that has a 3% accuracy? The titration kits I've seen available cannot get this level of precision, more like about 15%. Precision depends on how many significant figures the acid is standardized to, multiple titrations to get low standard deviations, how close you can get to equivalence point with a blue-to-yellow endpoint, etc. If you have a kit that gives more precision than the usual kits, I would love to hear about it.

I'm using the all-in-one test kit from this vendor:

http://www.eliquidtest.com/Instructions.aspx

I'm no expert, and just repeating their claims in terms of precision.

If you review the instructions provided they claim by using a larger (3ml) sample, you should get more accurate results than using a small (1ml) sample.

I will say that I've tried repeat test of the same batch side by side, and the results, on the same day, have come out within 2% of each other, which would seem to indicate a high degree of accuracy.

Although I accept this is hardly scientific evidence.

 

[mhertz]

One thing i'm sure about, as i've recently learned, and that is that heat i.e. oxidation, will highly enhance the taste of the nic!

I have 5 bottles of nics in a dark closet, over the summer without AC, and i'm guessing it hasen't lost much in terms of potency, as other tests allready concluded, e.g. lid of for a full month infront of window etc, but they cannot be vaped atleast by me for over 3mg, when unflavored.

Normally, I don't like unflavored with over 6mg, so that should also be taken into equation, but still... Tastevise i'm talking about here and not nic level preference...

Atleast this experience has led me to conclude that I need to keep my nic in the fridge, atleast in the summer time...

(Normally I wouldn't have 5 bottles of nic out in "rotation", but it was just because of doing a lot of taste testing to decide which I liked best, so that I could stock up with that nic source in the freezer later...)

 

[B2L]

What kit do you have that has a 3% accuracy? The titration kits I've seen available cannot get this level of precision, more like about 15%. Precision depends on how many significant figures the acid is standardized to, multiple titrations to get low standard deviations, how close you can get to equivalence point with a blue-to-yellow endpoint, etc. If you have a kit that gives more precision than the usual kits, I would love to hear about it.

Wow, 15% is quite a deviation. For those who don't know, Kurt is a chemist and knows what he's talking about.

 

[Caterpiller]

@mhertz

I have observed that the above mentioned nic base has turned from completely clear, to a light champagne colour.

I also sense a stronger nic note in the unfavoured juice of more recent batches (these at 12mg)

I personally like a slight nic note, so for me this is not an issue, but I can see it might be for some.

Edit: I should have said, I also put this down to oxidation.

 

[dannyv45]

One thing i'm sure about, as i've recently learned, and that is that heat i.e. oxidation, will highly enhance the taste of the nic!

I have 5 bottles of nics in a dark closet, over the summer without AC, and i'm guessing it hasen't lost much in terms of potency, as other tests allready concluded, e.g. lid of for a full month infront of window etc, but they cannot be vaped atleast by me for over 3mg, when unflavored.

Normally, I don't like unflavored with over 6mg, so that should also be taken into equation, but still... Tastevise i'm talking about here and not nic level preference...

Atleast this experience has led me to conclude that I need to keep my nic in the fridge, atleast in the summer time...

(Normally I wouldn't have 5 bottles of nic out in "rotation", but it was just because of doing a lot of taste testing to decide which I liked best, so that I could stock up with that nic source in the freezer later...)

Sounds like you thought this out very well. Now that you've decided on a brand of NIC you can now safely buy in bulk and freeze what you won't use for a while. Its also not to late to refrigerate or freeze what you already have and won't be using for a while.

One thing i'm sure about, as i've recently learned, and that is that heat i.e. oxidation, will highly enhance the taste of the nic!

This may be true for some but for most we look for smoothness so for us it's a bad thing.

 

[Caterpiller]

Wow, 15% is quite a deviation. For those who don't know, Kurt is a chemist and knows what he's talking about.

I don't doubt it, and I'm certainly not qualified in any relevant way.

But if I understand correctly, a 15% inaccuracy in measuring 95mg nic base, could give me readings from 80mg to 109mg.

This is not what I have experienced.

Perhaps @Kurt could chime back in with some more thoughts on this.

 

[mhertz]

[...]
This may be true for some but for most we look for smoothness so for us it's a bad thing.

Well, I actually also meant it like that I've recently been converted to the "invisible nic preference" club... I'm using chemnovatic currently...

After trying my oxidized nic at 12mg and 6mg(I use 3mg normally), while also beginning to use higher wattage and lower gauge wire, then I really found out how the actual nic taste is(not good!), which I didn't really knew before, just the tobacco notes of some nics, and now even after getting new fresh nic, then I can still slightly taste this taste, but of course much less, and at 3mg I almost only taste the vg but slightly less sweet because of the nic, which is fine by me...

(I however have no problems with, and actually like, the throat-hit and nic effect itself)

Catterpiller, I don't know anything about this either, but i'm thinking that the inaccuracy can be consistent, meaning continually getting the same wrong(unprecise) result, so you get the same up to 15% skewed result each time...

 

[Caterpiller]

@mhertz

I hear what you are saying, and agree with your logic, but again, it doesn't appear to be what I'm experiencing.

I've tested three different nic bases from three different suppliers.

Each claimed to be 100mg, and each tested at between 95-98mg.

If the test solution was reading say 10% low, then each supplier would have to have provided me with 106-108mg nic base.

If the tests solution was reading 10% high, then each supplier would have provided me with 87-89mg batches.

It would be a real coincidence that each were inaccurate, either high or low, by almost exactly the same amount, to give me the results I've had.

Purely from observation, it seem more likely to me that I'm getting test readings that are accurate to within at least 5% +/-

 

[mhertz]

Dosen't 15% inaccuracy, mean results skewed _within_ a 15% spectrum, and not always 15% off? Yeah, I do think your results where in the 5% range obviously/most-likely...

 

[Caterpiller]

Update:

Well another two months on and I tested the nic base again.

Came out at 95.7mg again. So no measurable degradation of the nic base in sub-optimum conditions.

I just made another 120ml of 12mg from this base, and will report back over the next few days to let you know if the flavour profile has changed.

 

[Caterpiller]

I promised to come back and review the current flavour of my nic base.

I'd say the flavour hasn't changed dramatically from two months ago, so just just little bit more of a tabacco/nicotine flavour due to the oxidation.

It is a long way from being the flavourless nic base I bought back in early August, but now it has picked up a real harshness that accompanies the throat hit.

Even after upping the VG level in my latest batch it's too harsh on the throat to enjoy.

I'll convert to common wisedom in future
and freeze my nic base.

So in conclusion there is little concern of nicotine degridation for nic base stored in this manner, but oxidation will cause the flavour profile to change and eventually develop an unwanted and unvapeble harshness.

 

[Wow1420]

Was this in glass or plastic bottles?

 

[Caterpiller]

Was this in glass or plastic bottles?

The nic base remained in the original plastic bottle supplied by the vendor, but was locked in complete darkness inside a tool box at all times, apart from the few minutes during juice mixing.