nic is a poison please don't kill a kid
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I want to thank you Alan for an intelligent, thoughtful, accurate, and the "pearls before swine" post about nicotine safety. I am appalled by all of the ire and hate that has been hurled at you for discussing the safety aspects of nicotine storage. I think people accusing you of being arrogant and speaking down to them, are the ones with issues of arrogance, and bullying. I think people who commented that your effort was to make them feel stupid, truly felt stupid after reading your original post, why else would "stupid" come to mind? If the shoe fits ...
I have been lurking in this forum for longer than or almost 2 months, in between 2 hospital admissions, trying to figure out how to post my questions in an appropriate fashion, when I don't have the posting privileges yet to start a new thread. My original impression of this forum, (and I have done dozens upon dozens of searches using Google ECF, which produced dozens and dozens of useful results), and I have spent up to 6 hours at a time during dozens of nights reading here, my original impression has been that the members here are intelligent, give good advice, have great information, and are very knowledgeable about the topic of vaping, e-liquids, and everything associated with the practice. The members of this forum reply quickly, give good advice, and do so politely without sarcasm, being snarky, and baseless accusations.
I wish I knew how Alan's post brought out the worst in so many people. I really think that if this post didn't apply to you, therefore you are a responsible adult with no kids in the home, you have kids and keep your nicotine out of their reach, then really Alan's post wasn't intended for you. Alan was speaking to those few people who do not know how deadly nicotine liquid in these bottles is. And I do know first-hand, I almost died from nicotine overdose.
When I fill my KGO, I often get Candy Watermelon or French Vanilla Coffee on my fingers, and when I lick them, I think the liquid tastes awesome. Some say it tastes horrible, there is no accounting for kids tastes, kids like nasty tasting things, who has seen a kid eat bugs and snails? This guy.
I learned I wasn't invincible when I was 22 years old and had already been smoking since I was 14 years old, I was given cigarettes by the nurses in a children's hospital where I received medical care for over a year, and they gave cigarettes to all the kids, this was in Staunton Virginia in 1984, things were a lot different in those days. I smoked because the other kids did, and I thought they looked cool, and I felt left out when they got to go to the smoking room for 15 minutes of every hour, and I didn't. So I got cigarettes every Friday with my allowance, against my parent's wishes, the hospital didn't even require parental consent, or care if parent's complained over age 12 or 13.
To get to the point, when I was 22 (early 1990s) and very sick my doctor recommended the patch, and told me I needed to quit smoking, I had a severe winter cold, and I was coughing up phlegm to the point I had low oxygen in the upper 80s, and coughed until I lost my voice. I agreed, and he asked me how much I smoked, and I told him anywhere between 1 and 3 packs a day, depending on if I was working overtime, or got regular time off from work, so he recommended a high dose patch for me. The first day I removed the patch, some of the gel on the back of the patch stuck to my skin, and I wasn't informed how to properly remove it. It should have been removed with a dry paper towel to avoid getting into my skin. Instead I got in the shower and washed it off with soap.
I ALMOST DIED. FROM WEARING THE NICOTINE PATCH. Death by nicotine is no joke. The warning label did say to keep away from children and pets, and it did say to avoid getting the gel on your skin. It didn't say you couldn't wash it off with soap and water. But doing so made my skin absorb it almost instantly. By the time I phoned 911, my face had already turned purple, and I felt my heart seize and stop. I was on a heart monitor all day and night, and the ambulance paramedics were speaking about me like I was already dead in the ride to the Emergency Room, like I wasn't even there. When my heart finally began beating again, it didn't stop beating slower than 220bpm until the following morning, after they gave me medicine to slow it down. The doctors didn't believe me at first, and tested me for ....... and speed, before determining my heart attack was caused by nicotine poisoning. I had to take heart medicine for almost 2 years after that, but with regular exercise I restored my heart to pre- heart attack health. So Alan is not exaggerating about nicotine poison. The ER doctors told me that several joggers had died while wearing the nicotine patch, yet the public had never been warned! How is that for trusting your doctor, and pharmaceutical funded medicine!
Nicotine is used as a pesticide by some farmers, since it can be considered organic, it is not a man-made pesticide, in the sense it comes from a tobacco plant, rather than a pesticide manufacturer who synthesizes pesticides from petroleum products. It kills many insects and keeps them off crops, which is just one of the reasons why most people who eat vegetables test positive for nicotine, even if they are non-smokers, and recreational nicotine use has to test for higher levels of nicotine than the base amount found in almost all people who eat vegetables. I am not yet aware what the other reasons non-tobacco users test positive for base-levels of nicotine are. http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/4dmg/VegFruit/organic.htm
More discussion nicotine is a deadly toxin to children and adults:
HowStuffWorks "How Nicotine Works"
The people on this board have been mostly intelligent and friendly, give Alan a break, he was just trying to talk about a topic that he felt passionate about. He wasn't trying to make anybody feel stupid. If anything, the respondents tried to make Alan feel stupid for having a wish to prevent child nicotine poisoning.
If anybody appreciated Alan's post, and is looking for a safe place to keep their e-juice, Office Depot has this cash box with lock that is just the right height and size for a couple dozen 30ml bottles of juice or even more, possibly 3 dozen 30ml bottles. I bought one of the older ones with the flimsy lock, it only cost $30, this one cost $20 more at $49+tax, but it looks like it has a much more sturdier lock, mine had the outside aluminum lock that looked like a belt buckle, with the itty-bitty aluminum hook that locked with an itty-bitty aluminum key, that fit in the tiny aluminum keyhole. It was toddler to 6 year old proof, a child much older than that, and they could pry the lock off with a fork or screwdriver. This model's lock looks much more sturdier than the lock I bought. You have to remove the cash/dollar-bill and coin tray, to store bottles in it, you can save it for your next garage sale, or toss it out. It's 4 1/4" tall, more than tall enough for the 50ml or largest e-liquid I have seen finished liquids in. Mine was only 4" tall and was plenty tall for all sorts of medicine bottles. Of course the DIY PG and VG don't have nicotine, so they can stay in the fridge I guess. I first used mine to store prescription drugs in when I was on really strong painkillers like oxycontin and dilaudid. I ended up locking those in the filing cabinet I bought where I installed my own lock which was much sturdier than the one on the older model cash box.
Check these out and see if you could imagine keeping your e-liquids in something like this. It is not too big, and they even make sturdier locking tool boxes which will work just as well, and are even harder to break into, I saw people at the pain clinic store medications in those. It was the doctor's rule where I got my prescriptions from, we even signed an agreement to lock up our pain meds, that's why I know so much about them, and saw the kind the other patients used as well.
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/330902/MMF-Industries-Deluxe-Cash-Box-With/
These toolboxes all come with padlock eyes to allow for locking with your own padlock, you could go with key padlocks or combination locks if you prefer.
Stack-On Products 16in x 8in x 7in Plastic Tool Box in Black (PTB-16LS) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Stanley® Fat Max 23in Tool Box (023001W) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Stack-On Products 19in x 10in x 10in Plastic Tool Box in Black (PTB-19LS) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Ace® Tool Box - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Stanley® Tool Box with Tray (020060R) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Hey if Alan's post saves one child's life, it was worth all of the rebuttals and snarky remarks he had to endure for saying it. Sorry Alan, I don't know what everyone's problem is.
I have been lurking in this forum for longer than or almost 2 months, in between 2 hospital admissions, trying to figure out how to post my questions in an appropriate fashion, when I don't have the posting privileges yet to start a new thread. My original impression of this forum, (and I have done dozens upon dozens of searches using Google ECF, which produced dozens and dozens of useful results), and I have spent up to 6 hours at a time during dozens of nights reading here, my original impression has been that the members here are intelligent, give good advice, have great information, and are very knowledgeable about the topic of vaping, e-liquids, and everything associated with the practice. The members of this forum reply quickly, give good advice, and do so politely without sarcasm, being snarky, and baseless accusations.
I wish I knew how Alan's post brought out the worst in so many people. I really think that if this post didn't apply to you, therefore you are a responsible adult with no kids in the home, you have kids and keep your nicotine out of their reach, then really Alan's post wasn't intended for you. Alan was speaking to those few people who do not know how deadly nicotine liquid in these bottles is. And I do know first-hand, I almost died from nicotine overdose.
When I fill my KGO, I often get Candy Watermelon or French Vanilla Coffee on my fingers, and when I lick them, I think the liquid tastes awesome. Some say it tastes horrible, there is no accounting for kids tastes, kids like nasty tasting things, who has seen a kid eat bugs and snails? This guy.
I learned I wasn't invincible when I was 22 years old and had already been smoking since I was 14 years old, I was given cigarettes by the nurses in a children's hospital where I received medical care for over a year, and they gave cigarettes to all the kids, this was in Staunton Virginia in 1984, things were a lot different in those days. I smoked because the other kids did, and I thought they looked cool, and I felt left out when they got to go to the smoking room for 15 minutes of every hour, and I didn't. So I got cigarettes every Friday with my allowance, against my parent's wishes, the hospital didn't even require parental consent, or care if parent's complained over age 12 or 13.
To get to the point, when I was 22 (early 1990s) and very sick my doctor recommended the patch, and told me I needed to quit smoking, I had a severe winter cold, and I was coughing up phlegm to the point I had low oxygen in the upper 80s, and coughed until I lost my voice. I agreed, and he asked me how much I smoked, and I told him anywhere between 1 and 3 packs a day, depending on if I was working overtime, or got regular time off from work, so he recommended a high dose patch for me. The first day I removed the patch, some of the gel on the back of the patch stuck to my skin, and I wasn't informed how to properly remove it. It should have been removed with a dry paper towel to avoid getting into my skin. Instead I got in the shower and washed it off with soap.
I ALMOST DIED. FROM WEARING THE NICOTINE PATCH. Death by nicotine is no joke. The warning label did say to keep away from children and pets, and it did say to avoid getting the gel on your skin. It didn't say you couldn't wash it off with soap and water. But doing so made my skin absorb it almost instantly. By the time I phoned 911, my face had already turned purple, and I felt my heart seize and stop. I was on a heart monitor all day and night, and the ambulance paramedics were speaking about me like I was already dead in the ride to the Emergency Room, like I wasn't even there. When my heart finally began beating again, it didn't stop beating slower than 220bpm until the following morning, after they gave me medicine to slow it down. The doctors didn't believe me at first, and tested me for ....... and speed, before determining my heart attack was caused by nicotine poisoning. I had to take heart medicine for almost 2 years after that, but with regular exercise I restored my heart to pre- heart attack health. So Alan is not exaggerating about nicotine poison. The ER doctors told me that several joggers had died while wearing the nicotine patch, yet the public had never been warned! How is that for trusting your doctor, and pharmaceutical funded medicine!
Nicotine is used as a pesticide by some farmers, since it can be considered organic, it is not a man-made pesticide, in the sense it comes from a tobacco plant, rather than a pesticide manufacturer who synthesizes pesticides from petroleum products. It kills many insects and keeps them off crops, which is just one of the reasons why most people who eat vegetables test positive for nicotine, even if they are non-smokers, and recreational nicotine use has to test for higher levels of nicotine than the base amount found in almost all people who eat vegetables. I am not yet aware what the other reasons non-tobacco users test positive for base-levels of nicotine are. http://www.coopext.colostate.edu/4dmg/VegFruit/organic.htm
More discussion nicotine is a deadly toxin to children and adults:
HowStuffWorks "How Nicotine Works"
The people on this board have been mostly intelligent and friendly, give Alan a break, he was just trying to talk about a topic that he felt passionate about. He wasn't trying to make anybody feel stupid. If anything, the respondents tried to make Alan feel stupid for having a wish to prevent child nicotine poisoning.
If anybody appreciated Alan's post, and is looking for a safe place to keep their e-juice, Office Depot has this cash box with lock that is just the right height and size for a couple dozen 30ml bottles of juice or even more, possibly 3 dozen 30ml bottles. I bought one of the older ones with the flimsy lock, it only cost $30, this one cost $20 more at $49+tax, but it looks like it has a much more sturdier lock, mine had the outside aluminum lock that looked like a belt buckle, with the itty-bitty aluminum hook that locked with an itty-bitty aluminum key, that fit in the tiny aluminum keyhole. It was toddler to 6 year old proof, a child much older than that, and they could pry the lock off with a fork or screwdriver. This model's lock looks much more sturdier than the lock I bought. You have to remove the cash/dollar-bill and coin tray, to store bottles in it, you can save it for your next garage sale, or toss it out. It's 4 1/4" tall, more than tall enough for the 50ml or largest e-liquid I have seen finished liquids in. Mine was only 4" tall and was plenty tall for all sorts of medicine bottles. Of course the DIY PG and VG don't have nicotine, so they can stay in the fridge I guess. I first used mine to store prescription drugs in when I was on really strong painkillers like oxycontin and dilaudid. I ended up locking those in the filing cabinet I bought where I installed my own lock which was much sturdier than the one on the older model cash box.
Check these out and see if you could imagine keeping your e-liquids in something like this. It is not too big, and they even make sturdier locking tool boxes which will work just as well, and are even harder to break into, I saw people at the pain clinic store medications in those. It was the doctor's rule where I got my prescriptions from, we even signed an agreement to lock up our pain meds, that's why I know so much about them, and saw the kind the other patients used as well.
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/330902/MMF-Industries-Deluxe-Cash-Box-With/
These toolboxes all come with padlock eyes to allow for locking with your own padlock, you could go with key padlocks or combination locks if you prefer.
Stack-On Products 16in x 8in x 7in Plastic Tool Box in Black (PTB-16LS) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Stanley® Fat Max 23in Tool Box (023001W) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Stack-On Products 19in x 10in x 10in Plastic Tool Box in Black (PTB-19LS) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Ace® Tool Box - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Stanley® Tool Box with Tray (020060R) - Tool Boxes - Ace Hardware
Hey if Alan's post saves one child's life, it was worth all of the rebuttals and snarky remarks he had to endure for saying it. Sorry Alan, I don't know what everyone's problem is.
Keeping it real
Going for a jog around the block elevates your blood pressure too LOL Not saying that nic doesn't elevate blood pressure I just don't think it is what causes heart disease. If it did jogging would be bad for you
Science is only fact until it is proven wrong.
Example
For years we have been told that fats and cholesterol are to blame for heart disease yet now many in the heart health profession are saying that they have been treating heart disease all wrong. That cholesterol and fats are not harmful at all it is the inflammation caused by simple sugars and carbohydrates. These are the foods that were pushed on us to help put an end to heart disease yet they only made it worse!! If these simple sugars/carbohydrates were not ingested no inflammation in the arteries could happen and cholesterol would have nothing to cling to. My momma always said moderation is the key with everything in life. Too much of anything isn't good for you
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Alan
I think the regular members of this board expect that the only noobs allowed to post here have to come on with questions like:
If I screw my 808 on my 501 will I short out my battery? Will the threads of my 306 cartomizers fit on my E go?
Post it like a question and behave like you don't have a thought in your pretty little head. Pretty sure that will make them feel smarter than you , and they will feel like answering your question was a service to humanity. God forbid you discuss child safety and demonstrate somebody please exactly what about Alan's post had even an air of arrogance?
I haven't seen a mob get this nasty since a forum discussion about what club drugs you could take and mix at a rave and safely get intoxicated without overdosing in 1999. These were teenage to 30 something posters, and they were much less venomous than this crowd, which I figured was a much more mature group and range of ages. For the love of God and money . . .
I think the regular members of this board expect that the only noobs allowed to post here have to come on with questions like:
If I screw my 808 on my 501 will I short out my battery? Will the threads of my 306 cartomizers fit on my E go?
Post it like a question and behave like you don't have a thought in your pretty little head. Pretty sure that will make them feel smarter than you , and they will feel like answering your question was a service to humanity. God forbid you discuss child safety and demonstrate somebody please exactly what about Alan's post had even an air of arrogance?
I haven't seen a mob get this nasty since a forum discussion about what club drugs you could take and mix at a rave and safely get intoxicated without overdosing in 1999. These were teenage to 30 something posters, and they were much less venomous than this crowd, which I figured was a much more mature group and range of ages. For the love of God and money . . .
Or not ....
I don't think I'm alone when I say "Man, I hate when that happens." (!)
Thanks for sharing that, and I'm damn glad you're still with us.
I don't like the way that some people here treated Alan either, and just wish that people could express their thoughts with engaging in personal attacks.
Thanks for sharing your story and for standing up for him.
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My kids are grown and out of the house. We have 2 grandkids. I'm using a toolbox that I can lock up when the grandkids are up for a visit.
Keeping it real
Going for a jog around the block elevates your blood pressure too LOL Not saying that nic doesn't elevate blood pressure I just don't think it is what causes heart disease. If it did jogging would be bad for you
Science is only fact until it is proven wrong.
You say you don't think nicotine causes heart disease because jogging raises your blood pressure? LOL? Oof. That's not what I call "keeping it real".
Little about scientific theories or opinions themselves have to do with "fact", believe it or not. In science, a "fact" is pretty much "data", from which observations are made, hypotheses proposed, and theories supported. You seem to be implying that since a theory can be proposed, gain widespread acceptance, and then be supplanted by a superior one, that we shouldn't put any credence in anything that science has to offer.
To that, I would say that it was once commonly held that the earth was flat. Now we have pretty solid evidence that it's basically globular, and I base my actions in part on the belief that the scientific community is not going to come out tomorrow with the startling news that it's really a dodecahedron.
Similarly, I'm convinced, to the point that I seek to avoid becoming addicted to it again, that nicotine consumption is more harmful than helpful.
***
"Science uses specialized terms that have different meanings than everyday usage. These definitions correspond to the way scientists typically use these terms in the context of their work. Note, especially, that the meaning of “theory” in science is different than the meaning of “theory” in everyday conversation.
• Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” Truth in science, however, is never final and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow.
• Hypothesis: A tentative statement about the natural world leading to deductions that can be tested. If the deductions are verified, the hypothesis is provisionally corroborated. If the deductions are incorrect, the original hypothesis is proved false and must be abandoned or modified. Hypotheses can be used to build more complex inferences and explanations.
• Law: A descriptive generalization about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances.
• Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses".
http://ncse.com/evolution/education/definitions-fact-theory-law-scientific-work
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There's plenty of nonsense to go around. This thread seems to have started with good intentions. Ironically, good will can bring out condescending claptraps in response.
Yes, I already understand nicotine is fatal if ingested wrongly, but someone reminding me of that doesn't bother me, and actually does more good than anything.
Yes, I already understand nicotine is fatal if ingested wrongly, but someone reminding me of that doesn't bother me, and actually does more good than anything.
You see, Chewie, other than the apologetics for Alan and your erroneous assumption that anyone who thought he was condescending was stupid, your post was more useful than Alan's. Why didn't he take that tone when talking about nicotine safety? No, instead he, and eventually his sidekick, decided to lecture us. He told us that he alone had the facts, ("look it up") and declared that he would brook no excuses or discussions about absorption rates, etc. He was the teacher. You are a bunch of ignorant students who will surely try to argue with his indisputable facts. He will not tolerate it. You are the student. So listen up and shut up. Ironically, his facts, while exaggerated, were largely correct. But he presented them in the worst way possible, another sign of an academic fraud.
Well, I'm not in high school. His post was defensive, arrogant and condescending all at the same time. Then, he sulks away like a victim. Most people don't appreciate being talked down to, especially by just another newbie who thinks he has discovered the key to knowledge or something. Most people also can spot an academic fraud who attempts to pose as a PhD so we dare not question his pronouncements. Then, to top it off, his sidekick posts a bunch of misleading and irrelevant clips about the cardiovascular havoc nicotine plays on vapers, and scoffs at anyone who dares question them.
How do I know he's not a PhD? No PhD writes that poorly, and I don't mean his spelling or grammar (although that was pretty poor). No PhD from any respectable school would have written something so likely to raise the ire of people and so unlikely to stimulate mature discussion.
Since you're wondering what it was that put people on edge. That was it.
Well, I'm not in high school. His post was defensive, arrogant and condescending all at the same time. Then, he sulks away like a victim. Most people don't appreciate being talked down to, especially by just another newbie who thinks he has discovered the key to knowledge or something. Most people also can spot an academic fraud who attempts to pose as a PhD so we dare not question his pronouncements. Then, to top it off, his sidekick posts a bunch of misleading and irrelevant clips about the cardiovascular havoc nicotine plays on vapers, and scoffs at anyone who dares question them.
How do I know he's not a PhD? No PhD writes that poorly, and I don't mean his spelling or grammar (although that was pretty poor). No PhD from any respectable school would have written something so likely to raise the ire of people and so unlikely to stimulate mature discussion.
Since you're wondering what it was that put people on edge. That was it.
This is a silly post, especially from a Canadian who must circumvent the laws of his own country to buy nicotine juice.
Look, the regulation of nic vaping laws in the US is under development. The way those regulations will look in the future depends upon input from the nicotine vaping industry (regulated as tobacco) and the acceptance of those recommendations by the US FDA.
If Canadians don't like the way nicotine vaping solutions are sold by the US vaping industry they should follow the recommendation of their government and not buy it at all.
Look, the regulation of nic vaping laws in the US is under development. The way those regulations will look in the future depends upon input from the nicotine vaping industry (regulated as tobacco) and the acceptance of those recommendations by the US FDA.
If Canadians don't like the way nicotine vaping solutions are sold by the US vaping industry they should follow the recommendation of their government and not buy it at all.
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Who ever said that nicotine, in and of itself, is helpful. It's helpful in that it allows me to avoid smoking cigarettes. I think of it like a medication. I will tolerate the effects of the medication because they prevent a far greater harm.
You could have made your point better with out that post that spread misleading information based on the conflation of the harms of smoking and nicotine alone.
The fact is that cigarettes raise BP, and do many other things detrimental to health, including contributing to arteriosclerosis. There is no credible evidence that nicotine, on its own, does anything but elevate BP to some extent. And yes, so does caffeine and a hundred other daily activities.
I can't speak for ambientech, but I understand perfectly the nature and relationships of facts, theories and hypotheses. You are right that a fact is the least useful of these and a theory is as close to the truth as science gets. No theory is immutable, even the theory of gravity. You will never hear me utter the words "it's just a theory" in a scientific context. I say this only to illustrate that I understand what a theory is and why I am unconvinced that any theory establishing a link between nicotine and heart disease in otherwise healthy adults has ever been tested and validated, despite your scare story to the contrary (which, BTW, dealt with smoking - an entirely separate issue). Smoking has been proven to contribute to heart disease. Nicotine has NEVER been proven to cause heart disease. High blood pressure, in and of itself, is NOT heart disease. High BP may aggravate existing heart disease. Chronic very high BP contributes to the onset of heart disease and in an ideal world people with existing heart disease shouldn't vape, but they are still better off vaping than smoking. But elevated BP isn't heart disease and it isn't the same thing as chronic high BP either.
If a vaper's BP is 10 or 15 points lower than when he smoked and 5 points higher than it might otherwise be if he did no nicotine at all, you can't say that nicotine does more harm than good. He could stop all nicotine, gain 20 lbs and raise his BP another 10 points.
If you want to wean yourself off nicotine, more power to you. Good luck. But to say that nicotine consumption is more harmful than helpful on a forum chock full of people whose health has improved and whose lives may have been literally saved by the ability to ingest nicotine in it's relatively pure form is patently absurd. We don't need more disinformation thrown around. Pharma, the FDA and their allies do a good enough job of clouding the issues.
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My kids are usually too drunk or high to figure out how to get the cap off my e-juice bottles.
What?
What?
i think that this is a great post here and everyone should read it at least once that nic is poison and as a responsible parent i choose to keep all of my juice under tight lock and key and far away from my 2 yr old
I found this quite interesting:
So, he earned a PhD at the tender age of 21, in English no less. A bloomin' prodigy he was. Yet he types it out as Phd, an error no real PhD would ever - not in a million years - make. And his "daughter" is a "Bsc, not a BSc. ... Not to mention he has the spelling skills of a 7th grader, something I'd overlook in anyone who wasn't pretending to be what he so clearly is not.
Alan, if you want to be taken seriously, don't be a poseur. Bring up a subject for discussion sans presumptions; and drop the hysterical tone.
So, he earned a PhD at the tender age of 21, in English no less. A bloomin' prodigy he was. Yet he types it out as Phd, an error no real PhD would ever - not in a million years - make. And his "daughter" is a "Bsc, not a BSc. ... Not to mention he has the spelling skills of a 7th grader, something I'd overlook in anyone who wasn't pretending to be what he so clearly is not.
Alan, if you want to be taken seriously, don't be a poseur. Bring up a subject for discussion sans presumptions; and drop the hysterical tone.
This post is ridiculous. Perhaps you would feel better if us vapers had our kids living in a plastic bubble through out their childhood?
You said " Lets look at a solution to this real problem". I cannot recall ever hearing about one child dying from drinking nicotine. However, my Mother, my Father, my Mother-in-law, and my best friend all died due to smoking analogs. My regret is e-cigs were not an option for them years ago.
I raised two kids and had highly toxic cleaning products under the kitchen sink. They did not drink Pine Sol, Bleach or Draino. My kids did not go into the garage and drink Raid, lawn pesticides, brake fluid or gasoline. Although, I did catch our son drinking some Vodka and he lived through it. Well, almost when his Dad found out.
You need to give yourself a reality check and stop worring about things that are highly unlikely to happen. Please do not continue to live your life in fear.
I agree, this topic deserves a thread of it's own, please start one.
First of all, if the tobacco companies can create a product that allows for inhaling nicotine in a way that they with their big dollars can bribe the FDA to fund studies on the safety of this device, then it will be fast-tracked to market within 5 - 7 years. Maybe less, I don't know if the process has been streamlined since I last read about how long FDA approval takes. If the tobacco companies can get their product approved by the FDA, they can bribe the FDA to come after the vaping products we enjoy, and deem them unsafe, and forbid their sale in the U.S. Next thing you know, overseas manufacturers and e-juice makers will not ship to us, they will fear retaliation by the Justice Department, and ICE. ICE you say, that is Immigration and Customs, yes, and customs includes items we want to have shipped from out of the country from overseas web sites to our door. Australia and Sweden have just proven they will arrest people at the Justice Department's request to enforce copyright infringement claims, and hold them without even hearings for bail, or a speedy trial.
If this product Phillip Morris is working on contains nicotine vapor, spray, mist/ whatever it puts out, includes Whole Tobacco Alkaloids, it could prove to be much more physically addictive than the nicotine we are vaping in our PVs. You are probably already familiar with Whole Tobacco Alkaloids if you visit ECF often, but if not, just read here.
Aroma Ejuice Manufacturer of WTA Whole Tobacco Alkaloid Eliquid
Essentially, there are other ingredients in tobacco (even when it is not combusted with cancer causing chemicals) that are possibly linked to the cravings that smokers and chewers, snuff users crave, in addition to nicotine. These are Whole Tobacco Alkaloids, and Aroma E Juice is manufacturing some for people who don't get that satisfaction from vaping they do from smoking, though they don't recommend it for people who are satisfied otherwise with their vaping experience. It could make their addiction to tobacco that much more difficult to give up, and people like myself are trying to limit my addiction to nicotine via harm reduction to vaping, and I want to avoid if at all possible adding Whole Tobacco Alkaloids to my vaping experience, if that is going to make me more addicted to the nicotine I am already tweaking on.
I know I am stranger than most, after I vaped my first nicotine juice, I got so hooked on that, I was going nuts waiting for it to come in the mail, I felt more addicted to nicotine then than I did to cigarettes, my Kools which I have smoked for at least the last 12 of the 28 years I smoked, did not compare to the satisfaction I got from vaping this e-liquid. While waiting for my e-liquid in the mail, I smoked a few Kools, but it was hard to finish them, because I just wanted my e-liquid and new KGOs so, so bad.
I just want to known if anybody else thinks that this product Philip Morris is planning to sell could possibly pose a threat to the vaping experience we have come to know and love? The way we vape will be competition to their product, and a rival the size of Philip Morris may not have too difficult a time getting rid of anybody or anything that stands in it's way, especially after losing the war on smoking tobacco, they will back up this new product with renewed fervor. Anybody else given much thought to this new product Philip Morris has been testing? Or the patents in the link above?
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