Nicotine absorbtion from vaping research

[TropicalBob]

Nicotine levels per puff were also analyzed: e-cigarette mist contains significantly less nicotine than tobacco cigarette smoke. Only 10% of the nicotine found in a normal puff from a tobacco cigarette was found in e-cigarette mist.

That's from the newest study and readily shows how little nicotine an e-smoker obtains per puff. And that's for 16mg liquid, which Ruyan and Janty call "high." The blunt bottom line seems to be that e-cigs using supposedly strong liquid cannot replicate the impact of a tobacco cigarette.

And I believe that.

But other problems can arise. I have some of the new 48mg liquid that I planned to dilute for extended use (in case the Big Ban Theory comes true). As a test, I tried dripping some straight a few days ago. I wanted to recreate the cigarette break I enjoyed for 50 years.

With the atomizer wet with 48mg, I inhaled vapor deeply 10 times in 5 minutes, much as I would smoke a real cigarette. No buzz but an intense tightening and knot in the middle of my chest. Like serious heartburn. That lasted for a minute or more and I was rather nervous of what might follow. It passed, however.

I don't think I'll do that again. But even that didn't give the expected nic hit. Something else is missing from our liquid. Harmine? Something is missing. If we ever find that missing substance and add it, we might get close to the cigarette experience.

 

[Vee]

So, if a typical cigarette is about 10 puffs and takes about 2-3 min to finish, that means to get the same from 16mg liquid in the same amount of time, you'd have to puff 60 times within 5 min to equal the amount you would get with an analog? That's one heck of a hot atomizer! And *if*, as some here wonder, there's left over nic in the system that has yet to be absorbed, that would lead to OD if you continued to try to match the amount of nic you received throughout the day while smoking analogs. It's no wonder I feel like I've gone cold turkey.

 

[TropicalBob]

By these calculations, the e-cig inhalation delivers 1/10th the nicotine of a cigarette puff. So you multiply by 10.

To equal a cigarette's nicotine delivered by 10 inhalations, you'd need to suck 100 inhalations from an e-cig. Which explains why e-cig smokers use these non-stop, instead of for breaks. There is simply no way to get nicotine equal to that received from smoking tobacco cigarettes, according to this research.

Your conclusion is essentially correct for many, myself included: E-cigs satisfy habit, but it's like going cold turkey from a nicotine standpoint.

 

[boxhead]

No I am not going to add pig urine to my supply of TW`s juice no matter what is missing...hehehe. i just cant rember what post here had listed pid U as a additve to cigarettes. i think it was u TB?

 

[exogenesis]

'By these calculations' being the critical phrase.

There's a possibility here of convincing newcomers that they can vape
heavily with deep intake on high strength juice with impunity.

Personal experience tells me there's more nic. being taken in with
'normal' vaping 24mg juice than with ciggies.
It's just obviously slower to be delivered, but it build up just the same,
or more.

Whatever the reason for these figures (some have been suggested),
I would suggest they be taken with some caution.



And it's urea added, not urine.

 

[TropicalBob]

We are all very much individuals, aren't we, Exogenesis?

I second your warning while saying that I almost never experience any nicotine effects at any level of e-liquid nicotine strength or intake. The exception was the recent 48mg test.

That one was done with a 4mg Stonewall dissolvable in my mouth. Probably should have taken it out. But one user on the dissolvables forum uses four Stonewalls at a time -- 50 pieces a day, 200mg a day!

On the snus forum, several users regularly use two strong snus portions at the same time. I can't do that. We are all unique and must listen to our bodies.

I've OD'd on nicotine twice, both times using snus and a pipe at the same time. I "heard" my body too late. Snus'll getcha!

 

[exogenesis]

You're right, everyone reacts differently,
the only time I thought I'd really OD'd was when drawing on 4x901's
at once. Not going to repeat that.

Sounds like you've got an extreme nicotine tolerance due to all your practice,
but someone doing 200mg a day, that's quite astounding!

 

[waywardsister]

Suppose this is why I still want an analog several times a day. Makes me think I could save a bunch of cash by not bothering with nic juice at all, and just using PG and flavour.

 

[Kate51]

I tried some of TW's 36mg stuff, 1(one) cartful, thought I was going to be sick. I use JC's 24mg exclusively. But that one got me good.
If the sensation leaves you in about 1/2 hour, it's the nicotine, the "half life" of nic is that long.
So I do agree with the stats, unless you inhale vapor like you would a "joint" (I saw a guy do that once) then I think the 10% number is a good one. Which explains the reason we are vaping all the time. I think though that I have slowed down considerably over the last week or so, maybe it just takes that long to internalize that cut-back. Need more time to tell for sure. But we do need more testing, I think!

 

[paladinx]

I think an american dipper could use five portions at a time lol. Most smokeless tobacco people in the US use a crap load of loose skoal or cope in their lip. And I think a study said that these people still had blood levels to that of a cigarette smoker. I need to find the document where i saw that.

You know what gives me the greatest nicotine hit i believe. Its smoking a cigar. I smoke 30 cigs a day and never feel any nicotine overdose problems. I can puff on a cigar though without inhaling and feel dizzy, hiccups, heart burn etc. figure that one out.

 

[Surf Monkey]

This is one of the most fascinating and useful threads on the board.

My personal experience is that the e-cigaret requires more drags to get the nicotine level I'm used to, and I don't get the fast rush that a traditional smoke gives me, but I do get nicotine out of them. Plenty of nicotine. If I didn't, I'd be freaking out and reaching for my pack of analogues. I feel like the high I get from vaping is far cleaner and more subtle. More like a patch or nicotine gum. This stuff has been said in this thread and others already, so it's nothing new. Just pointing out that my experience backs up with a lot of others have said.

 

[happily]

my personal feeling is that vaporized nicotine takes a different path to the brain than smoking..........for example first time I ever smoked the buzz was hard and fast. If i throw a chew in my mouth 10 minutes later a freight train creeps up and floors me, but throw a nicotine patch on your arm and a controlled steady flow with no buzz at all

I think vaping nicotine travels the mouth like chew

I was a 2 pack a day smoker(3-4 packs if I hit the pub) and when I received my e-cig a week ago I took 5 puffs on 18mg and couldn't smoke or puff for almost 2 hours. I actually still have'nt broke 1 cartridge a day, so everyone's body must also handle it differently.

The other thing to consider is many studies are presented with an agenda......I.E. if I'm the fda I look for excuses to ban. I'f i'm a manufacturer I look for info to prove safety

In the end your body will tell you, how it affects you(and only you)

 

[Surf Monkey]

I think vaping nicotine travels the mouth like chew

From what little testing I've seen in this thread and elsewhere, that does seem to be the case. It appears that the majority of the nicotine you absorb when vaping goes in through the mucous membranes in the mouth and throat, not so much through the lungs.

This may explain why some people seem to get more nicotine out of vaping than others. For example, I don't draw the vapor directly into my lungs. I fill my mouth with it and then inhale the drag as one big batch. By allowing the vapor to linger in my mouth it's possible that I get a little more nicotine transfer than someone who sucks it directly into their lungs and then blows it out.

 

[Vee]

That's a good point, Surf. Inhaling straight to lungs (like a joint) could very well lessen the amount of nic you're getting. I do like you do, take a mouthful and then inhale after the drag. I think the majority inhale the way we do from what I've read on the forums.

I have been experimenting with exhaling through mouth and through the nose. So far, I haven't noticed a difference in the feeling of nicotine in my body. Perhaps I should go a full day exhaling through nose and see.

Still, it's just not enough for me (a former pack a day smoker). I need snus as a supplement for cravings because e-cigs just can't satisfy my physical need. They deliver psychologically, though. I can say without a doubt that if I lowered my nicotine by 90% using any other form of nicotine delivery, I would have caved in and bought a pack of analogs a long time ago!

 

[Surf Monkey]

Agreed. I also find the amount of nicotine delivered to be far lower than what I expect from traditional cigarets. However, the effects of vaping take longer to hit than they do from traditional smoking. I don't get the immediate head rush, but I do get the longer term feeling of having smoked, it just takes a few minutes to take full effect. Further, the experience of vaping is different in terms of the pure mechanics. To have a smoke, I have to go outside. That demarcates the event and makes it stand out from the rest of my day. Vaping I do at my desk or on the couch, making it more seamless with my day. It's possible that this more casual approach also lessens the perceived effect of the nicotine by some small degree.

It's all an inexact science at best. What I do know is that I don't crave traditional smokes much at all now that I've been vaping for a few weeks. I'm using 16ml fluid, but I think I'll try 24 and see how that works.

 

[2kool2]

All I know is that it work's,lol.

 

[Kate51]

This is obviously NOT scientific.
A few weeks back I did a very basic ph test of my liquid with simple tester strips and a color chart. (I was experiencing sore throat, hoarsness.)
I use JC PG 24mg, and the ph showed between 5.5 and 6. Now I do realize that this is going to be very subjective:
This mix has thoroughly satisfied my need for nicotine, HEAVY smoker for 44 years. The testing in this thread is very interesting, but no one still can coraborate e-cigs and stop smoking. I walked away from my cigarettes on day-1. I think I would be hesitant to try higher nic (36mg made me ILL) or a higher ph on a lesser density juice. All this does say that we definitely need more testing! How it works to my advantage to use a PV is beyond me. Why it does is waaaaay out there. Did not mean to interupt your posts, but my brain just questions everything about this.
Which is one reason I am very afraid of the reactions with Government Intervention. Perhaps I'm not alone with this fear.

 

[Vee]

Kate, got a good place to get some ph strips to test with? Did you use a ph strip from aquarium stores?

 

[Kate51]

Kate, got a good place to get some ph strips to test with? Did you use a ph strip from aquarium stores?

I have the impression that these testers are standard, so yes the aquarium strips would probably be the same. I got these from a Barefoot Coral Calcium supplier, but I don't think they are designated as medical testers, ph is ph I think.

I was wondering if the ph in my juice was giving me a sore throat or if it was the PG vs VG, or exactly what. A very low (acidic)ph would be very irritating, a very high ph (alkaline) would be very drying, both ranges would be about the same symptoms. But it tested rather in the middle, with both substances, so didn't really answer any question for me. So went with VG for awhile to test out that theory, and I find it to be not so irritating. But is either one good for you???! Dilemma!

 

[Surf Monkey]

"Good for you"? Highly doubtful. FAR easier on your body than cigarets? A virtual certainty.