Nicotine Comparisons

[Kurt]

Wow. I find it fascinating, to say the least, that after talking highly of VV nic since 2009, there is suddenly a real interest in it! I didn't look recently at their website, and I am VERY sad they closed. Adam was one of the real pioneers in retail vaping, offering the first bulk DIY nic that I was aware of. Before then it was only Totally Wicked, and only 36 mg PG-nic in 30 mL bottles, for $30/bottle!. So while Adam's prices were high by today's standards, they were a bargain back in Fall of 2009. MFS didn't start offering DIY nic until a couple months later.

I am also sad that I will not be able to get Adam's tobacco Flavoring he used. A unique tobacco, with tones of wet stone and earth, that at first made you say "What??", and then created amazing vapes with apple or peach mixed in. Far and away my favorite tobacco flavor, which I will miss very much.

Here is Adam's (VV) recipe for 60mg VG unflavored concentrate, you can dilute further from there.
He did use a lot of water.
Oh, and if you do the math, the nic he used was obviously pure, you would have to adjust the recipe to whatever strength you have.



View attachment 646117


This is the citric he used in above:

View attachment 646119


60 mg/ml Unflavored Base (100 ml) (June, 2009)

71.6 ml Glycerol USP
17.9 ml distilled Water
6 g l-Nicotine USP
4.54 ml Citric Acid Solution

Combine glycerol, water and citric acid solution. Mix well. Chill to -5 C. Slowly add nicotine (stored at -5 C) while stirring until completely mixed.

*****************************************************

Citric Acid Solution (06/2009)

1 g Citric Acid USP (anhydrous)
1 ml Distilled Water

Heat water to above 120 deg. F., slowly add citric acid while stirring until all is dissolved and solution is clear (a very, very pale yellow).

Mike, I cannot thank you enough for posting this! VERY useful information!

 

[Mowgli]

I am also sad that I will not be able to get Adam's Tobacco Flavoring he used. A unique tobacco, with tones of wet stone and earth, that at first made you say "What??", and then created amazing vapes with apple or peach mixed in. Far and away my favorite tobacco flavor, which I will miss very much.

Ask him privately for the source. I'd be surprised if he wouldn't give it to you.

 

[zelda]

If you go to the VV site all his flavorings/recipes are posted there.

 

[Sylvie]

I would not have said this a few years ago. I never had anything that old, which would be from 2007/2008, and I was not vaping then. The oldest I had was from Fall of 2009, so about 7.5 years, Vermont Vapor but that is all vaped now as of this year. It never changed at all. Oldest ones I have now are 2011 Box Elder, 2012 EXC, and 2013 Wizard Lab (regular, Ice and Ultra). All in glass in freezer, and to my knowledge have not changed. Nor would I expect them to ever change: they are in glass and deep freeze (chest freezer). Essentially a chemical standstill. The Box Elder is 55 mg/mL VG-nic diluted from that landmark 272 mg/mL BE VG-nic sent to me to test, and which changed the world of vaping. It was already yellow-orange when I got it, and sat in LDPE and three freezer ziplocks in the freezer for years, until I diluted it (outside!) to 55 mg in glass. I cannot say if it changed as 272 mg in LDPE, but it probably did, being in LDPE. I don't care, since I actually enjoy some yellowed nics, and Box Elder was always one of my favorite "rough" nics, and this particular one, perhaps because of history and the impossibility of ever getting a nic like this again, is to me magnificent. Takes me right back to those heady days when quality control of DIY e-liquid had its first painful birth world wide. The market would not support this product now, even fresh, since virtually everyone wants an invisible nic.

Would absolutely love more of the Vermont Vapor 36 mg VG nic, but at $100 for 250 mL, I cannot rationalize the expenditure. But a great product, with aging bringing out maple/tobacco tones. Adam uses citric acid to lower the pH from about 10.4 to around 8-9, so this was actually the first salt solution that I was aware of (2009). But really expensive. He did this to lower the smell of working with the free-base nicotine he used, not to necessarily create a salt solution, although it does that.

if i was a bad person, i would hunt you down and steal the wizardlab ultra right out of your freezer i so miss that nic, ran out of it last may and although i finally found a nic i like again (VT's premium), it's not the same! the vermont vapor nic sounds heavenly...

 

[r77r7r]

I think that WL's specialty nic mightve just been that Chemnovatic brand that JimiD used to rave about.

 

[mhertz]

Yes could be, but he had no other proof than just a simple guess, though.

Chemnovatic was though founded in late 2013, so isn't the timeframe alittle off? The chemnovatic homepage also just was registered 09 november 2013.

If it's true, then it's pretty cool you can still get this source from VT, heartlands and nicvape nowadays too

Kurt once guessed it was alchem and a member here I can't remember, sorry, stated to have insight knowledge of it being a chinese nic, same as used by XV.

Heck, maybe it was the same as the regular, with just added citric acid to make it smoother like VV used to do. Who knows...

 

[Kurt]

I did think that WL Ultra was Alchem, but that is just because Alchem back then was the only Nic source I was aware of doing the post-extraction distillation step. Could be other nic manufacturers were too. I dunno. I never titrated it, but I doubt it was a salt solution, since WL was a main source of nic-titration kits, and there was never a mention of these ultra-clean nic being too low in nic content. I would like to think they would have said something about this, since they maintain a high level of integrity as a company. But this is all conjecture.

 

[Kurt]

Also, WL Ice and Ultra were identical to me, but I recall WL saying they were from different sources.

 

[r77r7r]

g. I've been adding a drop of plain lemon juice to my ejuices forever-

Hello again, Katya. I've tried this Lemon juice additive to my regular unflavored and very much like! Have you perchance sorted how much to add to say, 30ml?

TY

 

[Katya]

Hello again, Katya. I've tried this Lemon juice additive to my regular unflavored and very much like! Have you perchance sorted how much to add to say, 30ml?

TY

I never added lemon juice to unflavored; but I often add it to fruity juices that are too sweet or just plain boring. Never more than 1-1.5% or so. I use my own Meyer lemons that grow in my backyard--they are sweeter and more fragrant than commercial lemons sold in supermarkets. Wonderful addition to lemon and lime creams. And I only add lemon juice to small amounts of ejuice about to be vaped (5 ml), never to big bottles--just in case.

My favorite additions to unflavored is a drop or two of EM, kolada, or minty menthol--also added in last minute, depending on my mood.

I use Apple Cider Vinegar (Braggs)--I filter it first to remove any particulates--to tame my tobacco eliquids like RY4--I think it mellows them a bit. A drop of 0.9% saline is also nice for dry and harsh-tasting vapes. Don't know why.

Maybe it's all in my head...

 

[Katya]

I am also sad that I will not be able to get Adam's Tobacco Flavoring he used. A unique tobacco, with tones of wet stone and earth, that at first made you say "What??", and then created amazing vapes with apple or peach mixed in. Far and away my favorite tobacco flavor, which I will miss very much.

Formerly Vermont Vapor, Inc.

0 mg/ml Tobacco Base – Note that this contains trace amounts of nicotine (June, 2009)

40 ml Glycerol USP
10 ml Distilled Water
1 g Camel Mellow Snus Tobacco

Mix well and allow to rest for 24 hours, mix and let rest another 24 hours. Strain to remove tobacco. Filter through a coarse medium to remove visible particulates. Filter through a fine medium to remove micron level particulates.

60 mg/ml Tobacco Base (100 ml) (June, 2009)

89.5 ml 0 mg/ml Tobacco Base
6 g l-Nicotine USP
4.54 ml Citric Acid Solution

Combine tobacco base and citric acid solution. Mix well. Chill to -5 C. Slowly add nicotine (stored at -5 C) while stirring until completely mixed.

e-Liquid Flavors (to make 32 ml e-liquid)

Smoke - Tobacco Base

500 µL Mother Murphy's Artificial Burley Tobacco Flavor

Mix well.

He adds snus to his tobacco base??? Fascinating. Poor man's WTA? I don't like Camel snus, but I'm tempted to try this recipe with Swedish snus. Somebody please talk me out of this.

So his Smoke recipe contains Burley, Citric acid and snus?

 

[sketchness]

but I'm tempted to try this recipe with Swedish snus. Somebody please talk me out of this.

Do it! Do it! Do It!

 

[Rossum]

He adds snus to his tobacco base??? Fascinating. Poor man's WTA?

More like a NET that a WTA.

 

[Katya]

Do it! Do it! Do It!

You're not helping, dear!

More like a NET that a WTA.

Isn't that what I said? Poor man's WTA.

 

[Kurt]

I think that is the tobacco base he used for his Maple and Vanilla Tobacco e-liquids. Not the same as the Tobacco flavoring, which is evidently Mother Murphy's Artificial Burley Tobacco Flavor. But looking into that, seems regular consumers do not have access to either that flavor, or flavors in general at small quantities. The Maple e-liquid is good, still have some of that, but it has no resemblance to the Tobacco Flavor, and has more cigar notes. Very different taste than the slate-like Tobacco Flavor.

Swedish snus comes in an enormous variety of flavors. I have tried MANY different ones, and I don't recall any tasting like Adams juices or Tobacco Flavor. They will be salty, and many have a bit of juniper in them (gin-like taste). I would go with the one he used, although I do not really trust US snus, since I don't think that tobacco was pasteurized with curing. The pasteurization that is typical for Swedish snus keeps carcinogens VERY low, while fermentation, like in most US tobacco, promotes nitrosamines.

But soaking swedish snus for making a tobacco flavor is nothing new. I remember one veteran ECF member who posted a lot of videos here, actually put a pouch of swedish snus in his 901 cartridge back in 2009. This was Tropical Bob, and if you remember him, you really have been in ECF a long time. I've done this too, and it tastes like...wait for it...swedish snus! Point is if you don't like swedish snus, you won't like a flavor made from it. A good one, in my opinion, if you don't want the juniper thing, is Ettan, which is more straight-ahead tobacco taste.

Many US snus manufacturers also add aspartame to their snus, to make it sweet. REALLY not a fan of that. Not recommended for inhalation, for sure! For a variety of neuro-toxic reasons.

 

[Kurt]

Wondering what the opinion is of the new VapersTek Throat Hit nicotine. It is no longer Chemnovatic slightly oxidized, as it was for years. It is a different nicotine that does have more bite than Chemnovatic.

 

[Katya]

I remember one veteran ECF member who posted a lot of videos here, actually put a pouch of swedish snus in his 901 cartridge back in 2009. This was Tropical Bob, and if you remember him, you really have been in ECF a long time.

Yeah. Tropical, DVap and a whole bunch of other mad scientists experimented with Swedish snus and other tobacco extractions forever in search of that elusive "something we were missing" from our straight nicotine vapes. Good times. I followed every thread...

I've done this too, and it tastes like...wait for it...swedish snus! Point is if you don't like swedish snus, you won't like a flavor made from it. A good one, in my opinion, if you don't want the juniper thing, is Ettan, which is more straight-ahead tobacco taste.

I did too. I used unflavored General--it was pretty bad.

Many US snus manufacturers also add aspartame to their snus, to make it sweet. REALLY not a fan of that. Not recommended for inhalation, for sure! For a variety of neuro-toxic reasons.

That's why I was surprised to discover that VV used Camel--Camel is sickeningly sweet. And I agree with you--I don't completely trust American snus.

Thanks for your response. As always!

 

[Sylvie]

I think that WL's specialty nic mightve just been that Chemnovatic brand that JimiD used to rave about.

the VT premium/chem nic is what i use now, semi close to the WL ultra but, not quite it.

while trying to find where the WL ultra pure was from back then, i believe i ended up with it being more than likely sourced from India. Plus there was wholesale supplier in florida that had the India sourced ultra pure nic and i thought maybe WL may of gotten it from them given that supplier started having personal/business issues about the same time i believe that WL stopped letting us get the Ultra. the supplier did re-opened again a few months or so later?? but, with all the issues they had and non-wholesale prices being higher (like $140 for a liter i think it was), i couldn't get myself to take a chance and try their nic to see if it was indeed the same ultra pure nic.

 

[mhertz]

Interesting Sylvie, thanks. I did some digging, and john had the regular, the ice and the ultra-pure. One of the two new, I think the ultra-pure, was from India and more pure and FDA audited. This sounds alot like alchem, which is ultra-pure for sure and is FDA audited and in the beginning(alchem/nicselect v1) was expressed as very clean and "tasteless", before the "rubber" fiasco(v2) of them switching to using whole-leaf instead of dust and now(v3) where they fixed this and it's an OK nic(still, crazy pure though). The ice was another source, or maybe i'm misunderstanding it. The info came from a thread here where two had called john to ask about this and shared the info:

Wizards Lab Pure nic Base

The thread isn't fully clear though on which was the indian nic and if they infact was the same, ice/ultra-pure...

 

[Capt.shay]

Wondering what the opinion is of the new VapersTek Throat Hit nicotine. It is no longer Chemnovatic slightly oxidized, as it was for years. It is a different nicotine that does have more bite than Chemnovatic.

I'm going to bump this because I am going to need nic soon and have been using the old VT TH for the last couple of years. Has any one tried the new stuff. I hope it isn't to throaty. I really liked the old stuff that I thought to be as smooth as most vendors regular. It is a good price as well. I would hate to buy a liter and find that I no longer enjoy it.

Any one tried it yet?