Nicotine Comparisons

[WhiteHighlights]

Okay, here's something new (to me; at least...).

I received an email from Wizard Labs, announcing that they are now offering nicotine salts. I went to their website, to see what they were carrying, and saw this notice:
View attachment 784809
(emphasis;WL)(source)

This is the first time, I have ever seen any type of nicotine concentrate (freebase. or salt), warning NOT to store below 32℉.

I am hoping, some of the more scientifically-minded readers of this thread, could explain why this might be the case... ?????????

Is this something applicable to all nic salts, or just WL? Or, is this just an over-cautious "C.Y.A." disclaimer, on the part of WL?

What is the risk? Does the salt "de-protonate" and revert to freebase if the temperature drops too low? Or, does it just outright "ruin" the nic? Can a low enough temperature cause the nic salts to fall out of suspension (separate from the carrier/diluent)? Or, could this be indicative, that they are adding something like water (at high enough percentages) that actual freezing (becoming a solid) becomes a concern?

I'm clueless...

Interesting because I went to Nude Nic's site and they have for their Nic Salts:

FIFO – Freeze in, First out – is Nude Nicotine’s new on-demand shipping option! We have a select amount of SKU that are kept in-stock in our -20C freezer system for immediate retrieval and shipping.

That's -4F. I wonder what prompted WL to issue that disclaimer too.

 

[dansus]

Can a low enough temperature cause the nic salts to fall out of suspension

Think its something to do with the this. Odd things happen can happen when you freeze benzoic salts, all i got atmo.

 

[SLM]

Maybe email them and ask?

 

[IDJoel]

Maybe email them and ask?

I have done so.

Edit to add: and I will share any reply I receive.

 

[dc99]

I wonder if its the benzoic acid or something else. I only use salt from NR and as far as I know they still dont use benzoic acid. Curious to find the reason from WL

 

[IDJoel]

I wonder if its the benzoic acid or something else. I only use salt from NR and as far as I know they still dont use benzoic acid. Curious to find the reason from WL

I also asked, if they would tell me which acid they were using... we'll see if they will answer. Many manufacturers consider that a "trade secret," and decline to answer.

I will share any reply I receive.

 

[Rossum]

I also asked, if they would tell me which acid they were using... we'll see if they will answer. Many manufacturers consider that a "trade secret," and decline to answer.

That's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to use nic salts; I don't much care for mystery materials in the liquid I use.

Then there's the fact that they tend to gunk up coils pretty badly...

 

[mhertz]

... been out of the loop for a minute because of some sickness, anyway, I just now learned a few things about chemnovatic I wanted to share.

They actually extract there own nic from tobacco themselves, plus, they use supercritical extraction, you know, the non solvent CO2 based extraction technology used also by cxtc.

I remember back in the day when Kevin first found and sold chemnovatic and where he also stated that either the manufacturers don't use hexane, or they have found a way to clean it away fully.

I found out this from some article about them online, I've never seen before btw.

Personally, just still vaping away happily on my nicselect freezer-stash

 

[Vapntime]

... been out of the loop for a minute because of some sickness, anyway, I just now learned a few things about chemnovatic I wanted to share.

They actually extract there own nic from tobacco themselves, plus, they use supercritical extraction, you know, the non solvent CO2 based extraction technology used also by cxtc.

I remember back in the day when Kevin first found and sold chemnovatic and where he also stated that either the manufacturers don't use hexane, or they have found a way to clean it away fully.

I found out this from some article about them online, I've never seen before btw.

Personally, just still vaping away happily on my nicselect freezer-stash

Where did you find the info about chemnovactic using supercritical extraction? Ok it seems your correct they must be using a solvent as well in the process to isolate nicotine at those purity levels. Carolina claim they do not use a solvent but have never supplied any purity certification.

Nicotine Suppliers to e-Juice Manufacturers

 

[Vapntime]

That's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to use nic salts; I don't much care for mystery materials in the liquid I use.

Then there's the fact that they tend to gunk up coils pretty badly...

Keep an eye out for nicselects new salt range, they are up front on acids used
Products & Applications | NicSelect

Scroll down to salts.

 

[mhertz]

Where did you find the info about chemnovactic using supercritical extraction? Ok it seems your correct they must be using a solvent as well in the process to isolate nicotine at those purity levels. Carolina claim they do not use a solvent but have never supplied any purity certification.

Nicotine Suppliers to e-Juice Manufacturers

I apologise for forgetting to omit the source link, thank you.

I have asked a couple of times in the past if cxtc customers would please post the COA here, but none replied.

Im no expert, but isn't the hexane or whatever used, just used for extracting the nicfrom tobacco, and where supercritical extraction just uses pressure and CO2 and alike instead, and then afterwards the several purfication steps come to up the percentage, and in the case of normal extractions to get rid of the original extractions solvent, so only resides in trace amounts as with most current nics showing COAs which greatly exceedes USP standards.

Btw, I read in another thread I believe, that you got pink nic and didn't like it was oxidized. As you know, Kurt wasn't entirely sure, but had theories, but both chemnovatic and inawera also both state separately that some brands or batches of USP VG will discolor pink when mixed with Nic. Sometimes it's also reported with PG, but I'm guessing the variances in PG are much less, as so many just use DOW PG and since VGs I'm guessing can have varying trace amounts of the abundance of different organic matter than can be used to make it, and one local VG manufacturer stated to me that they and many others switch what they use to extract the VG based on the season as that greatly changes the prices of things.

 

[Rossum]

Keep an eye out for nicselects new salt range, they are up front on acids used
Products & Applications | NicSelect

Scroll down to salts.

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

Bottom line for me personally: Regular old "freebase" nic has kept me smoke-free for more than five years now, and I have a lifetime supply of it in several geographically dispersed freezers.

I do have a few bottles of relatively high-test commercial salt liquids for those rare occasions when I have a limited ability to vape, but I don't use 'em very often, and actually prefer them mixed 50/50 with my regular unflavored base.

 

[charlie1465]

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

Bottom line for me personally: Regular old "freebase" nic has kept me smoke-free for more than five years now, and I have a lifetime supply of it in several geographically dispersed freezers.

I do have a few bottles of relatively high-test commercial salt liquids for those rare occasions when I have a limited ability to vape, but I don't use 'em very often, and actually prefer them mixed 50/50 with my regular unflavored base.

Yes definitely very interesting...now i'm trying to find out how to make nicotine ditartrate I've just made some nicotine benzoate but haven't tried vaping it yet. Initial results are very pleasing though....superb clarity in the finished liquid.

 

[Vapntime]

I apologise for forgetting to omit the source link, thank you.

I have asked a couple of times in the past if cxtc customers would please post the COA here, but none replied.

Im no expert, but isn't the hexane or whatever used, just used for extracting the nicfrom tobacco, and where supercritical extraction just uses pressure and CO2 and alike instead, and then afterwards the several purfication steps come to up the percentage, and in the case of normal extractions to get rid of the original extractions solvent, so only resides in trace amounts as with most current nics showing COAs which greatly exceedes USP standards.

Btw, I read in another thread I believe, that you got pink nic and didn't like it was oxidized. As you know, Kurt wasn't entirely sure, but had theories, but both chemnovatic and inawera also both state separately that some brands or batches of USP VG will discolor pink when mixed with Nic. Sometimes it's also reported with PG, but I'm guessing the variances in PG are much less, as so many just use DOW PG and since VGs I'm guessing can have varying trace amounts of the abundance of different organic matter than can be used to make it, and one local VG manufacturer stated to me that they and many others switch what they use to extract the VG based on the season as that greatly changes the prices of things.

Yes I thought the supercrital process was just the original CO2 extraction etc that I had heard about, but it seems they can use modifier's or other solvents in the process to isolate specific compounds especially alkaloids (attached pdf).

Yes my pink nicotine turned out to be fine, I'm still not exactly sure why it changed color. I did hear that it may have had something to do with it being packed with nitrogen. Its funny though because my pink CNT nicotine is the best nicotine I've ever had.

 

[mhertz]

Thanks alot Vapntime, much appreciated. About pink nic, I tend to trust inawera and chemnovatic on the matter, e.g. small quote by chemnovatic:

"Some PG/VG also change the color to light red when mixing with nicotine, even if they are pharmaceutical grade."

Quote: 5 steps to high quality nicotine bases. - CHEMNOVATIC

Thanks also for posting the CNT COA, as I've always wanted to see one and have searched for it some years ago. They aren't more pure I believe than nicselect, but that should also be pretty hard to beat having only trace amounts of impurities. Yeah, CNT's COA is more thoroughly made whereas nicselect has listed any other impurities than listed there to be under trace amounts too. I believe it's good, and remember a vendor in UK changing from nicselect to CNT and with lots of good reviews untill it closed.

(Edited for confused wording.)

 

[Vapntime]

Yea, I am actually still a nicselect fan especially with the salts that will be coming out. The CNT is very similar to nicselect but has a very neutral taste, almost to neutral for me because I vape unflavoured. So I can see how it might be rated 'better' than nicselect by others or business that are flavoring their eliquid.

 

[mhertz]

I find it really odd that alchem wouldn't deliver new pure nic to nicotine River so they had to make there own trademarked brand purnic, also from India, bgp healthcare im thinking but just a guess. I could understand if alchem just ran out momentarily, but it didn't sound that way from the owners post. also that liquidbarn stopped the brand seems like something going on...

Btw, cool you're unflavoured vapor too Vapntime, I couldn't remember that, from when last active here, as I tend to much more trust opinions of users in that category

 

[r77r7r]

I guess it wouldn't be the worst thing to let this thread go to archives.... Almost made it this time.

 

[Rossum]

I guess it wouldn't be the worst thing to let this thread go to archives.... Almost made it this time.

 

[Mowgli]

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