Nicotine Comparisons

[clnire]

Received my samples today.Well, got home from the weekend of work and they were in the mail. I am going to mix some unflavored and take notes until we have a reporting method figured out.

Thanks Rossum! Looking forward to this.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Rossum - Are you working on criteria / reporting method..?

Elsewise, I can post my thought here.

 

[Rossum]

I've been meaning to but haven't gotten a round tuit.

By all means post yer thoughts.

 

[JeremyR]

I started vaping unflavored nic today in preparation of the taste test.. Currently vaping ecx/ nic select; at 9mg.

So we should start brainstorming all the categories and stuff.

Also additional listings for other nics we would like to Include in the comparison. Though only the 4 would be blind..

Not sure where you wanted to go with this rossum, but I figure the more descriptive we can be, and the more nics we can tag along with this study in some way; the better.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I've been meaning to but haven't gotten a round tuit.

By all means post yer thoughts.

Here are my notes thus far...

VT - VapersTek
VZ - vaping Zone
XV - Xtreme Vaping
NN - Nude Nicotine

Others you may have on hand and tested for comparison Name 1, Name 2, etc.

Circumstances...
Nic Level for testing ____ (Please use a constant level across tests)
Vaping Wattage ____ (if known)
Type of Atomizer _____
Clarity of Dilutents ...
PG/VG Ratio for Testing (50/50 suggested) _____

The following are taken from Cyrus's original evaluations - some interpretation may be helpful.
My Scalar thoughts offered...
Clarity of Color, Undiluted (Scale 1 to 10 with 10 being most clear)
Clarity of Color, Diluted (Scale 1 to 10 with 10 being most clear)
Clarity of Odor, Nosed (Scale 1 to 10 with 10 being most ???)
Clarity of Odor, Vaped (Scale 1 to 10 with 10 being most ???)
Clarity of Flavor, Vaped (Scale 1 to 10 with 10 being most ???)
Throat Hit (Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the greatest TH)
Pepper Taste (Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the LEAST pepper taste?) Depends if pepper taste is desirable...
Purest Possible Taste while Maintaining (Massive?) Throat Hit (Scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the best)

 

[Cool_Breeze]

...Not sure where you wanted to go with this rossum, but I figure the more descriptive we can be, and the more nics we can tag along with this study in some way; the better.

Not sure what you mean by 'descriptive,' but the more subjective verbiage, the less 'apples to apples' that can be stood side by side, etc.

 

[Rossum]

Hmm, what exactly is "clarity of odor"? Strength of odor seems missing. Also, some kind of description of the odor, although I realize this will be subjective.

As for visuals: Clear and colorless are not the same thing. You can have a perfectly clear liquid that's brightly colored. You can also have a colorless liquid that's anything but clear. Color can be evaluated in the bottles I shipped the samples in, but clarity cannot, since the bottles themselves are not clear. Both are best evaluated in thicker cross sections, so perhaps what I should do is to fill some 30ml clear glass bottles with what remains of each of my 120ml samples....

 

[JeremyR]

The taste needs more descriptors regarding the nicotines flavor strength itself. Some have a good nic taste and work well for unflavored others are flavorless, and others are colored with chemical off tastes..

I doubt any of these will be tainted with chemical flavors and smells at this stage in the game.

Clarity of flavor seems extremely broad. Does it mean no flavor, or clean flavor, or lack of chemical, petroleum, & rubbery notes.

Maybe a selector for the nic such as choosing a usage type you feel its good for - unflavored vaping, tobacco mixs, fruit mixes, near zero taste

 

[tierrataz]

I have a sample of "USA Liquid Nicotine" coming in from Liquid Barn. It will be interesting to see how it stands up to these samples.

I don't see sample offerings. Am I missing it?

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Early on I offered to compile a chart, similar to that that I did for Cyrus Vap's evaluation. While some valid questions regarding the choices or evaluation criteria have been offered, no other specific evaluation criteria has been offered. I'm open to listen to what specific evaluations might be considered by the group.

I don't think a dozen essay responses will fit nicely into a chart. However, if that is what people desire, that's fine.

I think the testing participants should offer subjective commentary here in the thread as they see fit. I am hoping for enough objective (as well as is possible) evaluations for a chart digest as I have produced before.

What we 'feel' a nic only tasting might be good for various flavor groups pushes us into the subjective realm rather quickly and may be difficult to quantify. Perhaps those with thoughts about the criteria as originally offered by Cyrus Vap and illuminated by myself can use that as a starting point to offer a list of evaluation criteria for the group to discuss. Maybe we can find a list of objective criteria that will cover the basics of the various nic only samplings. Supporting and subjective commentary can continue here in the thread.

As a refresher of what I did before...

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I'll offer a couple of thoughts on Cyrus's original criteria.

Rather than "Clarity of Odor, Nosed," perhaps "Strength of Odor, Nosed" may be a better fit. I suppose that the particular 'quality' of odor may be subjective and could vary in description across testers. "Odor" might well be tested at the bulk / 100mg level...but that may not say all...

Maybe some distinctions can be made between "...Odor, Vaped" and "...Flavor, Vaped." There are differences in smell and taste, yet the two work together in many ways.

Rossum...yes, you've suggested what may be the best method regarding clarity. Perhaps you can evaluate that from the 'color' perspective and 'transparency.' Scale of 1 to 10..? Least Color = High Number (high purity?)...Most Transparency = High Number (high purity?).

 

[Dixie1954]

I am in the tobacco flavorings stage of my vaping - mostly, so I use my nic in those. I do however do a Chocolate Mint that I make with 0mg nic as an inbetween mix. I think it helps keep me from vapers tongue/fatigue. I am a very picky taster and can taste nic down to 6mg - I may be able to taste it lower but have never wanted to try it. I use 14-18mg nic at this time. If the group needs me to do something differently I will do it - just let me know.
PS I forgot to say that I have vaped just my nic base before and I can do that - to let you know.

 

[mhertz]

Sorry for interupting your review-discussion guys, and I look very much foreward to your reportings.

Anyway, I wrote to alchem-international us section yesterday, and asked a couple of questions e.g. where the sometimes reported rubbery notes comes from when the nic is so clean and why the many batch differences in such clean products etc. and allthough I didn't really got anything new reported then I thought that I would post the responce here that I got from the vice-precident of alchem-int.-us:

Hi Martin,

Thanks for your inquiry.

The short answer to all of your questions is that nicotine is a natural product extracted from tobacco, which is subject to oxidation.

This results in variations due to the source of the tobacco, the part of the leaf being used, where it is grown, when it is grown, etc… The tobacco pulls various components out of the soil resulting in the different tastes and odors. Also, aging of the leaf plays a role in remaining notes.

After extraction, then preservation becomes important because nicotine is highly oxidative. It has to be protected from light, heat and oxygen. Exposure results in discoloration from yellow to orange to brown (think of a cut apple sitting on your kitchen table over time). Thus packaging and storage play key roles.

So, as the demand for nicotine has greatly increased, the sources of raw materials has had to change and expand. Each expansion has brought about new challenges to overcome as far as taste and odor.

Also, with expansion comes new packaging. Some packaging is better than others for sensitive products.

So while there have been growing pains over the past few years, Alchem is at the leading edge with extraction and purification technology and has overcome the many difficulties in producing the highest quality nicotine in the market. We remain committed to meeting the growing demands of the industry and being the market leader.

All the best,

Tom


Thomas H. Schrier
Vice President – Business Development & Sales

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Rossum - You might check my last post above for revisions I made in my test.

 

[clnire]

I am more looking for guidelines as to what we are testing for than being able to add a lot of details to what should be tested for. Visual - clear vs cloudy (yes, the bottles impare that), smell (does it have a strong smell on it's own or more neutral; no smell), taste (if it definitely has a taste, that can affect a light flavored mix, more neutral won't affect final flavors), peppery (again, can affect final mixed flavors), throat hit, etc but how to word it is what I am not sure of.

 

[sketchness]

I personally would like to see what it is we are comparing before I start. Clarity seems like a difficult test based on the samples. Maybe pulled up in a syringe?

I got a tank to test with at 50/50. I will also test the nic on my dripper at max vg which is my preferred ratio. Should be able to test a few different nic levels in the tank. max vg on the dripper maybe up to 9 or 10mg to get a real good snort of it. Hope the postman is good to me today.

 

[440BB]

I don't see sample offerings. Am I missing it?

The banner and link for the sample don't show up for me either, so I guess they ended the promotion or it hit their limits.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I am more looking for guidelines as to what we are testing for than being able to add a lot of details to what should be tested for. Visual - clear vs cloudy (yes, the bottles impare that), smell (does it have a strong smell on it's own or more neutral; no smell), taste (if it definitely has a taste, that can affect a light flavored mix, more neutral won't affect final flavors), peppery (again, can affect final mixed flavors), throat hit, etc but how to word it is what I am not sure of.

Most of what you mention might be evaluated on a 1 to 10 scale. We only need to figure out the lows and highs of it. See also following post of mine.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

I personally would like to see what it is we are comparing before I start. Clarity seems like a difficult test based on the samples. Maybe pulled up in a syringe?

I got a tank to test with at 50/50. I will also test the nic on my dripper at max vg which is my preferred ratio. Should be able to test a few different nic levels in the tank. max vg on the dripper maybe up to 9 or 10mg to get a real good snort of it. Hope the postman is good to me today.

Let's let Rossum handle the evaluations of 'transparency' and 'clarity.' I don't think that a dozen samples coming from the same sources need any more than the one evaluation. I think we can trust Rossum for that. He's suggested he can pour his remaining 100mg. stock into clear bottles. If someone thinks he's nuts in what comments he may offer on that, bring it up in this thread. I'll acknowledge that if some of the 100mg material is very cloudy or very colored, that may have some impact when mixed to desired vaping level. If it seems important, bring it up here in the thread.

 

[Rossum]

CB, I'm certainly willing and able to do that, but I think I should keep any results private until the end. It should also be understood that my results won't be entirely blind. Having dispensed all those samples from marked bottles, I think I can identify at least two of the bases visually.

I'm kinda thinking everyone should keep their observations and results to themselves, at least for some period of time, so as not to influence others. So by all means, let's talk about what should be observed and how, but let's not discuss the actual results just yet.