Nicotine Comparisons

[Bob Chill]

Thanks for the RTS update Kurt! I have a liter already in the mail. I should get it on Tues. If I like it I'm going to buy 4 more. I'm not super picky with Nic. My 2013 RTS is totally acceptable. My final stash is going to include Nude, VT, RTS, and I still have 2 liters of WL from 2014 in the deep freeze.

I will feel really good once the nic part is taken care of. Since 2013 when I started vaping I figured free flowing cheap nic will end at some point. I still feel the same way.

 

[IDJoel]

i might have to go looking for the rts coupon code

You need look no farther than their home page. You should see it as the top banner in the left column.
Happy shopping (I snagged two liters for myself earlier today)!

 

[aikanae1]

It's hot here. When I order nic, I'm ready to meet the mailman as soon as he's on the block. It's a pita in the summer but I think temps in my mailbox exceed 150f and heat kills nic fast, imo.

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[puffon]

It's hot here. When I order nic, I'm ready to meet the mailman as soon as he's on the block. It's a pita in the summer but I think temps in my mailbox exceed 150f and heat kills nic fast, imo.

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You should feel the heat, in the trucks they are transported in....

 

[aikanae1]

You should feel the heat, in the trucks they are transported in....

I've heard stories of "bad nic" and it was nic that went bad (oxidized) from the summer heat in the post. This is a bad time for me to order.

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[JeremyR]

Yeah cooler weather is really the time to order nic.

 

[JeremyR]

.
In other news, I finally tried a sample of RTS 100 mg/mL VG. Not invisible nic. It has its own taste, which I really like. Slightly toasty/tobacco notes which I have always gravitated to. If you don't want any taste from your nic, RTS may not be good for you. To my tastes, this is a really well-crafted product, very enjoyable with a mellow, non-edgy nic buzz. May get more with the 4th of July sale, but the regular price is very good. I really like this nic.

Glad to hear your thoughts on rts. It's funny at the beginning of the thread, 3-4 years ago, many of us thought it was way too clean.. Now a days in the ultra clean nic scene, it's a nic that does have a good tobacco taste in the background. Decent th but not too much. No off chemical tastes. Acceptable nic to a vapor like myself that likes good th with a hint of tobacco or nicotine taste.

As far as I can tell their nic has remained the same over the years.. A great constant in the ever changing vape world.

Rts has a running FIRSTORDER discount of 20%!!

 

[Kurt]

AZPlumber: I don't know about current MFS. My only MFS nic is from January 2010, and it has a solvent off-taste to me that I cannot stomach or hide. Have not bought MFS since.

Cool_Breeze: As far as water content of the RTS VG-nic, based on general flow of it I would say 5%. Still much thicker than PG. Not as thick as my pure VG, but not far from it. But then VGs can vary too. I thinned it with 15% water in an unflavored juice, and this seems to be a good consistency for my purposes.

Jeremy, I am glad you can vouch for this slight tobacco taste. This means it is intrinsic to the nic, and this is the character of RTS. Or so I hope. And I would disagree that RTS has always been like this. It was not back in 2012. Back then it was sometimes sharper, more acrid, and more akin to vintage Box Elder, and there is no nic on the market now that tastes like that, unfortunately. Sometimes RTS was quite flavorless back then. Would never sell well today, few want that strong of a taste. RTS now is much more subtle.

Order in for 1 L of 100 mg VG. Most will get frozen in glass, but a little will get aged in LDPE. Betting it gets really tasty when left out!

 

[AzPlumber]

AZPlumber: I don't know about current MFS. My only MFS nic is from January 2010, and it has a solvent off-taste to me that I cannot stomach or hide. Have not bought MFS since.

I haven't noticed a solvent off-taste but have only been buying MFS since late 2011 and my taster may not be all that sophisticated. However, it does sound like RTS might be a good unflavored vape and worthy of a purchase.

 

[Kurt]

I haven't noticed a solvent off-taste but have only been buying MFS since late 2011 and my taster may not be all that sophisticated. However, it does sound like RTS might be a good unflavored vape and worthy of a purchase.

I recall there were some complaints with MFS from 2010, this being one, plus hot spots in a couple batches of VG-nic. Reported all fixed, but I found myself avoiding vaping it, and never bought from them again. At that point, Box Elder was the nic to have and had the best price: $80 for 1/2 liter! Oh how times have changed. Much less expensive now, but harder to find a good tasty nic on its own.

 

[mhertz]

Also, about viscosity of VG-nic, then keep in mind that even 100% unthinned VG nic will never have the same viscosity as straight VG as it has been "thinned" by 10% nic already, and nic's density of 1.01 is pretty close to water of 1.0, and of course will thin-out the 1.26'ish VG even if not a drop of water added Of course if it's remarkably more thin than straight VG, then water is obviously added, or prethinned VG used... Nic added to PG doesn't change the viscosity much I think as they are more close in densities i.e. 1.04 and 1.01...

 

[Kurt]

Also, about viscosity of VG-nic, then keep in mind that even 100% unthinned VG nic will never have the same viscosity as straight VG as it has been "thinned" by 10% nic already, and nic's density of 1.01 is pretty close to water of 1.0, and of course will thin-out the 1.26'ish VG even if not a drop of water added Of course if it's remarkably more thin than straight VG, then water is obviously added, or prethinned VG used... Nic added to PG doesn't change the viscosity much I think as they are more close in densities i.e. 1.04 and 1.01...

I have never correlated viscosity with density. Nor have I heard of that correlation. This link states there is no such correlation:

Is there a relationship between viscosity and density?

"There is no relationship between the viscosity and density of a fluid. While viscosity is the thickness or thinness of a fluid, density refers to the space between its particles. However, both properties are affected by temperature. When a fluid is heated, its particles move far apart, and it also becomes less viscous."

So I think the relationship you are seeing, mhertz, is coincidental.

 

[440BB]

Perhaps someone who has used pure nic can give us a comparison of it's viscosity relative to PG and VG. That would interest me.

 

[Rossum]

Perhaps someone who has used pure nic can give us a comparison of it's viscosity relative to PG and VG. That would interest me.

I have not used it, but I have seen it in sealed amber glass bottles with a bit of head-space. I would say its viscosity is relatively low; much closer to PG than to VG.

 

[mhertz]

I have never correlated viscosity with density. Nor have I heard of that correlation. This link states there is no such correlation:

Is there a relationship between viscosity and density?

"There is no relationship between the viscosity and density of a fluid. While viscosity is the thickness or thinness of a fluid, density refers to the space between its particles. However, both properties are affected by temperature. When a fluid is heated, its particles move far apart, and it also becomes less viscous."

So I think the relationship you are seeing, mhertz, is coincidental.

I apologize to all here for posting BS then - Sorry!

I always thought the two alligned i.e. weight and thickness as in my mind a fluid which weighs more should be thicker than a fluid weighing less, but I guess not... Thanks for the correction Kurt

However, even though it's not a general concensus(or rather completelly wrong), then don't you think nic has a lighter viscosity than pure VG and hence reducing the viscosity when mixed?

I still think it sounds strange that a fluid can weigh more and then not also have a higher thickness, but I of course take what you say seriously... Atleast it sorta corolates with pg vg and water atleast in terms of thickness percieved roughly to the eye, or if i'm wrong again then sorry... (With that I just meant which is thickest is the one with highest weight, that's all, and vice-versa)

I don't know yet the viscosity of pure nic, but VG is at highest 1490 mpas at 20/25c and normally from 1300 to 1420 I believe(from COAs). ED's COA list 1412 I believe(20/25C).

 

[aikanae1]

Chemistry is like electricity in that I"m learning more by vaping than I ever learned in school.

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[Kurt]

Chemistry is like electricity in that I"m learning more by vaping than I ever learned in school.

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I've been doing post-graduate chemistry for 35 years, and trust me, I have learned an enormous amount since I started vaping, and especially since I first published in this field. Most of this chemistry is brand new to even the most seasoned of chemists. Exciting, frustrating, and very humbling. Truly a new frontier in science.

mhertz, no problem...I didn't know this either, but what you were saying did some make sense to me, but I had never thought about density being correlated with viscosity. It was only when I looked into it that I saw that there was no relationship. That said, within the limited context of the compounds we use, and how they interact with each other (mostly H-bonding) there appears to be a correlative, but not causative, relationship. In other words, it is somewhat of a coincidence, because of the nature of intermolecular interactions, molecular weigh differences, and boiling points.

The viscosity of VG is considerably higher than that of pure nicotine, so yes, 10% nicotine will be lower viscosity than pure VG. Very good point!! So perhaps the RTS 100 mg VG is not thinned with water at all.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

This is not strictly on topic, but closely coupled.

I've been doing post-graduate chemistry for 35 years, and trust me, I have learned an enormous amount since I started vaping, and especially since I first published in this field. Most of this chemistry is brand new to even the most seasoned of chemists. Exciting, frustrating, and very humbling. Truly a new frontier in science...

Kurt - I have complaints at either end of the PG-VG spectrum and all points in-between. Propanediol doesn't suit me either.

Given your chemistry experience, do you see much opportunity for future development of alternative eliquid bases?

 

[aikanae1]

Maybe in another country. I think I'll feel lucky if the FDA approves one max VG eliquid. Right now in Indiana they have none.

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[Bob Chill]

I got my liter from RTS today. Very light odor compared to my circa 2013 stuff in the freezer. Has the same odor as Nude but Nude is more faint. I had my wife compare to make sure I was right. She has a rockstar sense of smell. She agreed that Nude and RTS have the same characteristics. She didn't like nicselect but has no issues vaping the mixed product (nor did I or my friends).

I'm going to get 3 more with the coupon code today. 3 liters shipped for $124 is really good.

Of my recent orders (NicSelect, Nude, VT, RTS) it seems that RTS is going to win the budget purchase category. NicSelect had the strongest odor. Nude and VT are in a class of their own on the odor category but RTS definitely compares to Nude in regards to type of odor.