Has anyone tried Nude nic's, nicotine salts-smooth? I like to sub ohm 9 or 10mg...and there free sample was too harsh for that.
Nicotine Comparisons
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You may want to have a look at RTS. Much cleaner than MFS imo been a few years since I bought MFS though.
RTS is excellent nic if you like TH. Seems to be a quality nic with a smooth buzz. It has a clean flavor with good th and retains some pepperiness that many of us like without any chemical or off tastes. Does get more pepper hit above 12mg but no chemical notes.
Prices aren't bad in quantity, and you can buy larger quantities on the wholesale side for less. A small bottle of 100mg is fairly cheap to try..
If you like tasteless with low th nude nic for sure.
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Thanks. I'll check them out. i have no qualms with MFS quality. Just wondering if maybe there's a better stock up plan. If RTS has been in business 5+ years, I may have ordered from them before. They sound familiar
Yeah they've been around a long long time, very consistent. I've been very happy with it myself being from the th camp and Cyrus the ops stance.And their vg and pg is the best I've tried.
At the beginning of the thread, way back like 2011 RTS was deemed way too clean. Now with the ultra cleans. It's a perfect balance between the new nic and the th strong old nick, its been very consistent.
I bought a liter of ECX the pink vg a while back.. well I don't think I'll even use any of it now. It comes off really harsh, the flavor has some off notes. RTS has me spoiled now I get clean taste and also good th.
At the beginning of the thread, way back like 2011 RTS was deemed way too clean. Now with the ultra cleans. It's a perfect balance between the new nic and the th strong old nick, its been very consistent.
I bought a liter of ECX the pink vg a while back.. well I don't think I'll even use any of it now. It comes off really harsh, the flavor has some off notes. RTS has me spoiled now I get clean taste and also good th.
I agree with Jeremy. RTS, at least the VG-nic (no experience with PG-nic from them), is very enjoyable to me. Sweeter than others, very faint tobacco notes, good medium TH, and a more mellow nic buzz than many others. Still trying to figure out why some nics are edgy and aggressive, and others have a gentler nic effect. RTS is for me one of the gentler ones, but I doubt it is from erroneously low nicotine content. The effect just seems to build slower than some other nics for me. The sweetness may be the VG Randy uses. I find it to be a very mature and consistent product, and with a fine organic presentation in the mouth and nose. Not tasteless, but then I am not fond of "invisible" nics.
I've honestly always ignored notions about different nic-hits in various nics, as never experienced it myself and thinking that it's the same chemical or how it's named, in all the sources, just like e.g. alcohol in various distillations/drinks. Also, I have very often agressive nic-hits and just as often mellow nic-hits, from the very same nic, depending on vaping-style and just how it affects me at the time, for some reason.
Though as usual, what do I now about any of this, lol
Also, it could be because you have access to more nic-sources than I do here in EU possibly, which almost always is alchem, nicobrand or chemnovatic(about why I haven't experienced it myself - or maybe i'm just not good at noticing such things possibly)...
Though as usual, what do I now about any of this, lol
Also, it could be because you have access to more nic-sources than I do here in EU possibly, which almost always is alchem, nicobrand or chemnovatic(about why I haven't experienced it myself - or maybe i'm just not good at noticing such things possibly)...
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ECX was by far the worst nicotine i have ever tried.It was so peppery and harsh.I have switched to vaping unflavored all the time now RTS and MFS are both great.Hint of sweetness and smooth with a very satisfiying throat hit.
I ordered a small bottle yesterday. I'll let you know. In the meantime, try a forum search for Nude Nicotine smooth or salts--several people have tried it, on this thread and elsewhere.
Nicotine Salt from Nude Nicotine
I would like to know how to test nic concentration of the "salt" variants at home. HCl titration doesnt work on the stuff. I found that I like a little citric acid in my nic, it smoothes it out nicely, but I dont know how to test the stuff. The samples never turns blue, it goes straight to yellow no matter how much bromothymol blue you add.
I believe @Kurt has mentioned in the past that traditional home titration kits were useless for nic salts but I don't think he offered any home solution outside of professional lab analysis. Maybe he can chime in again.
Yes, IDJoel, that is true. Home nic kits are a titration with an acid. If the acid is HCl, then the reaction produces the hydrochloride SALT of nicotine (nic-H+ Cl-). Nicotine salt solutions, such as being produced by NN, are in effect partially titrated nicotine using various acids, such as benzoic acid. The kit can only measure the amount of FREE-BASE nicotine, that is untitrated non-salt form. So, if you are using a nic salt product, the kit will give a reading that is significantly lower than the actual nicotine content, since some of that nicotine is already salt form.
To measure nicotine content in a salt solution one would need to be able to also measure the nic-salt content in addition to the free-base content. To complicate matters worse for the titration method is the fact that the acids used for these commercial salt solutions are weak acids, not strong like HCl. These salt solutions are then by nature buffered and amphoteric, and this further complicates any titration nicotine determination. One would need a method like GC-FID to get the nic content of the salt solutions. I think. It would more than likely have to be a spectroscopic method.
Some flavors also protonate nicotine, and thus I advocate using a kit only for unflavored, and now purely free-base, nicotine solutions. I have seen flavored e-liquids that given a titration error too low for nicotine content by as much as 30%. I can tell it is an actual error by the topology of the pH titration curves, not just the end-point an indicator gives.
One could with a lot of knowledge of weak base titrations use a pH curve to get nic content of salt solutions, but this requires a strong familiarity with the shape of these curves, and what the various inflection points mean. It is not hard for a chemist, but you have to have a solid understanding of weak base / weak acid equilibrium chemistry.
To measure nicotine content in a salt solution one would need to be able to also measure the nic-salt content in addition to the free-base content. To complicate matters worse for the titration method is the fact that the acids used for these commercial salt solutions are weak acids, not strong like HCl. These salt solutions are then by nature buffered and amphoteric, and this further complicates any titration nicotine determination. One would need a method like GC-FID to get the nic content of the salt solutions. I think. It would more than likely have to be a spectroscopic method.
Some flavors also protonate nicotine, and thus I advocate using a kit only for unflavored, and now purely free-base, nicotine solutions. I have seen flavored e-liquids that given a titration error too low for nicotine content by as much as 30%. I can tell it is an actual error by the topology of the pH titration curves, not just the end-point an indicator gives.
One could with a lot of knowledge of weak base titrations use a pH curve to get nic content of salt solutions, but this requires a strong familiarity with the shape of these curves, and what the various inflection points mean. It is not hard for a chemist, but you have to have a solid understanding of weak base / weak acid equilibrium chemistry.
I still don't know exactly what the pink is, but I strongly suspect it is one of the nic oxides. Some nics go yellow, some go rose colored, with time. I don't have any reason to believe it is harmful, since the nic oxides are not harmful. I have only seen pink/rose colored unflavored nics in PG, not VG. Doesn't mean VG nics won't do this, instead of going yellow, I've just not seen it.
That all said, ECX these days uses NicSelect nicotine, and is one of the ultra-pure nics. ECX back in the day (2011, 2012) used a different nicotine, which did have a somewhat clinical medicinal taste to it. And I also may still have some of that ECX nic in my freezer stores.
That all said, ECX these days uses NicSelect nicotine, and is one of the ultra-pure nics. ECX back in the day (2011, 2012) used a different nicotine, which did have a somewhat clinical medicinal taste to it. And I also may still have some of that ECX nic in my freezer stores.
Thanks @Kurt ...
Would it be safe to say that if I titrated the free-base solution BEFORE adding the citric acid, that I could be fairly confident of the "total" nic concentration?
For example, if I made a 40mgl nic concentrate, and then added 10% citric acid that I would have a ~36mgl result.
In other words does the conversion from freebase to salt change to "total" concentration?
Would it be safe to say that if I titrated the free-base solution BEFORE adding the citric acid, that I could be fairly confident of the "total" nic concentration?
For example, if I made a 40mgl nic concentrate, and then added 10% citric acid that I would have a ~36mgl result.
In other words does the conversion from freebase to salt change to "total" concentration?
I've only seen pink in VG nics myself. Also there's two stores online with pics of there nic where the VG is pink and the PG is straw. Nicselect is often pink in VG but never heard of it in there PG. Inawera also had problems with one manufacturers VG turning the nicbase pink whereas the other manufacturer didn't. This was at initial blending and not later on. VT also had pink VG nic at a time I remember.
Of course i'm not saying it cannot be in PG, but personally I strongly feel it's mostly VG oriented. I have read one or two people stating it in PG too, so it can be in both of course.
The pink nicselect VG nic, stays pink even over 6 months after in room temp with plenty headspace.
I feel nicselect is quality nic, though there to me is a slight off-taste to it(which is also easily identified by just whiffing the bottle ).
Of course i'm not saying it cannot be in PG, but personally I strongly feel it's mostly VG oriented. I have read one or two people stating it in PG too, so it can be in both of course.
The pink nicselect VG nic, stays pink even over 6 months after in room temp with plenty headspace.
I feel nicselect is quality nic, though there to me is a slight off-taste to it(which is also easily identified by just whiffing the bottle
).
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The last liter I got from Heartland Vapes had a very light pink tinge. 100mg PG
I'm still happy with it, no pepper taste.
I'm still happy with it, no pepper taste.
That's what I was assuming too...you'll know if you are used to smooth nic at high Mg and you get something that isn't smooth. It's like my throat is on fire, and I don't feel the nicotine.
Well, it is probably very subjective, and perhaps could be my imagination, but Box Elder was always one of the edgier nics to me. VT (Chemnovatic) also has a bit of an edge.
Yes, if you are making a citrate salt solution yourself with free-base nic solution, then test it before making the salt solution. Total nic content will be the same, but some of it will be protonated in the salt solution.
Yes, if you are making a citrate salt solution yourself with free-base nic solution, then test it before making the salt solution. Total nic content will be the same, but some of it will be protonated in the salt solution.
Thanks, Joel. I don't have a lot of time for ECF these days, but if I can explain some important science accessible to everyone, then it is worth the time.
As to the question of mellow vs aggressive nics, as I think about it, my observations may be a bit subjective. But I am most often vaping unflavored VG-nic with 20% water, so my recipe is a constant most of the time. However, some VGs have a slightly higher water content than others, or VG nic bases may have varying amounts of water. Maybe RTS does not add water, but VT does (I know Kevin adds at least 5% water to his VG-nics). A little difference in water can make a big difference in viscosity and boiling point, which translates into smaller aerosol droplets in the vape. Smaller droplets increase nicotine availability and absorption, or at least that is what I think. The extreme would be no visible vapor at all, everything gas-phase, which would penetrate the deepest in the lungs, and that is where fastest absorption takes place. I did feel that my RTS juices were thicker, and this could be a difference. But again, my observation of nic effect rates may be subjective. I am generally vaping either a cubis (tank or AIO) or Nautilus at around 14W, and these are very similar in production rates, so I don't think it is differences in equipment. If we assume that all nic is the same (assuming free-base), then it could be viscosity differences. PG-nic, which I rarely vape, does in general have a faster nic effect, as well as more sensory feedback (TH, pepper in nose, etc).
So bottom line is nic effect rate differences I think I observe may be my imagination, although it seems to replicate itself between nics, or it may be a viscosity/BP thing, rather than a difference in the nic itself.
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