Not the sort of news vaping needs right now ...

[Bunnykiller]

was there any mention of how many people died from fires caused by cigarettes???

 

[mkbilbo]

was there any mention of how many people died from fires caused by cigarettes???

Or even cigarettes used as intended?

 

[mkbilbo]

(Seriously. Battery fires are rare. And usually because of people using cheap junk or misusing the equipment. Cigarettes kill when used "properly". I mean... come on!)

 

[rolygate]

There is a problem when the chief fire officer of one city reports 9 ecig fires so far. Multiply that up by every city and there could have been hundreds of ecig charger fires.

Against the tens of millions of eGos out there it's not a lot (and it's always the eGos catching on fire) - but even so it's too many.

 

[Coldrake]

I understand that to a point. But, how can they say a usb charger for either a ego twist, vision spinner, or a fasttech knock-off goes to what battery is what I'm getting at.

Firemen are pretty good at knowing what can cause a fire.

Other issues aside (such as the points Rolygate raises), the "press" needs to get a grip.

For example, in the US, there are over 320 million activated cell phones. More than people living here. If Li-ions are dangerously unstable, we should lose a city to the cell phone explosions any day now.

Do you read about cell phone fires? You do not. Do they happen? Yes they do. They are extremely rare but do happen. And every, single phone has a Li-ion battery. All of them. Bar none.

So does the iPad I'm posting this message on. Where are the scary stories about iPads? Or iPods? Or laptop computers? Same battery tech.

What scary stories do you get? E-cigs and Teslas. Never you mind Li-ion is everywhere. Focus on the new stuff. And don't tell the "reporter" their laptop has the same battery type as an e-cig.

Oh, the most dangerous battery you own? It's in your car. That's a lead acid, high amp battery capable of stopping your heart. Not to mention causing amazing fires. "Jump starting" a car is stunningly dangerous. Smoking may be safer.

Better still, those overhead power lines? Low power, residential ones carry about 19,000 volts. Two miles from where I sit, one came down and the fire took out 1600 houses. If the winds had shifted, my house would have been one of them. In the end, it was the most costly wildfire in Texas history.

Is Li-ion perfectly safe? No, it isn't.

But 320 MILLION cell phones verses how many cell phone fires?

Myself, I'm more worried about how people drive around here. I swear, my state must require "recklessness" as a condition for getting a driver's license...

(In case I wasn't clear, I'm not dismissing Rolygate's points. We do have safer lithium tech now. We should use it. But for the sheer number of lithium batteries out there, the number of stories the press can scrape up is actually a tiny sliver of a fraction. No battery tech is perfectly safe. That's not possible. Any chemistry that produces power is inherently "unstable". If it were inert, it wouldn't produce power! As batteries go, lithium has proven to be one of the safer actually. I mean, cripes, 320 million cell phones? They out number us! But I don't see whole cities burning down in cell phone fires.)

Just for reference,
Cell phone fires.
Laptop fires.
They are out there, they're just not considered "newsworthy" like e-cigs are.

 

[rolygate]

Just to make it clear, what I'm saying is that ecigs shouldn't be recharged in a room where oxygen is in use or available.

The totally crap quality of many eGo type systems is another issue.

 

[mkbilbo]

Just to make it clear, what I'm saying is that ecigs shouldn't be recharged in a room where oxygen is in use or available.

The totally crap quality of many eGo type systems is another issue.

Especially the "blister pack" crap popping up all over. I'd bet money most of the fires are from junk bought at a gas station.

(Or, this case, petrol station I believe the term is?)

 

[rolygate]

Well, the forum is hosted in the US and 75% of ECF members are in the US, so 'gas station' is the right term. The rest use a mix of stuff like station d'essence or Tankstelle or whatever, and that might get too complicated...

 

[rolygate]

Roly, how often do eGo chargers fail and overcharge? I'm not aware of this ever happening, but I certainly don't see all the data you do.

eGo fire photo:
London Fire Brigade - ‘Exploding’ e-cig leads to safety warning from Brigade

It looks as if the charger in this photo has failed as it's caused the eGo to catch fire. There are probably a chain of faults here, and the protection circuit in the eGo has clearly failed, but I can't see how a Li-ion charged at 4.2v max can catch fire. That leaves a charger fault. Given these chargers cost 75 cents ex-factory (or less, with a deal) then maybe that's to be expected. It maybe went to 5v DC or 2 amps or something. Would really like to have a failed example to test...

Or alternatively the charger puts out 5v at (?) amps and relies on the ecig to limit the charge voltage (or even the current). That is pure madness and explains why they catch fire. Jeez.

 

[r77r7r]

Hey! stop picking on the egos! We ego guys out number forum managers!



( So, should we stop recommending them in the newcomers' forums?)

 

[rolygate]

( So, should we stop recommending the [ego?] in the newcomers' forums?)

Nothing wrong with an eGo.

They sell for $40 or $50 a kit down to $8.99. The expensive ones from Joyetech and Janty are unlikely to have any issues. The el cheapos are another matter. The cheap chargers are 75 cents from the factory and that tells you what sort of quality you can expect.

Best to charge that kind of gear in a Li-Po charging sack - a fireproof bag made for changing Li-Poly batteries, which are famous in the RC model world for catching fire when on charge after being damaged by a hard knock. And don't charge it next to an oxygen supply

 

[AndriaD]

The title is always for sensationalism. I do like BBC added WHAT caused the fire and I guess some education that using a charger not provided with your battery will/can cause explosions/fires.

BUT! That being said, WHY are people still being stupid!?

BECAUSE they're people. We've evolved to be exactly as stupid as we can get away with and still survive. Some don't make the cut.

Andria

 

[klynnn]

Most people with any sense know better than to use anything that can cause a spark around oxygen. Sadly the average person in the us has zero knowledge about batteries or chargers.. 3 years ago I knew to put a battery in a flashlight and that was it. Because of ECF I now build my own coils and use mech mods safely. Amazing what education can do.

 

[M Onan Batterload]

was there any mention of how many people died from fires caused by cigarettes???

Not to mention oxygen.

 

[mkbilbo]

Well, the forum is hosted in the US and 75% of ECF members are in the US, so 'gas station' is the right term. The rest use a mix of stuff like station d'essence or Tankstelle or whatever, and that might get too complicated...

But the story was BBC if memory serves so "petrol" I think.

I have some Brit and Aussie friends elsewhere online and, I swear, sometimes it's like having to learn a second language.

Heh, using the word "snicker", of all things, threw one for a loop. Wanted to know what a candy bar had to do with anything. I got tripped up over "mash" which you'd think I'd have figured out by now.

English. Go figure.

 

[tj99959]

From a conversation with Roly last night.

Roly Gate: Yes, good point - all ecigs should now use Li-Mn or hybrid. Li-ion cells are obsolete now, and it is obvious that the protection circuits in 'protected Li-ion' packages (like eGos) don't work when charging.
August 9 at 8:11am ·

Roly Gate: I've posted that in ECF already. Li-ion is obsolete and needs to be gone. Currently I'm doing a major set of warnings on ECF about this because with just one UK city reporting nine fires and a death, something needs to be done. We're gonna get crucified on this.
August 9 at 8:13am · Edited ·

IMO it is us the consumers that can force change.
We simply have to make enough noise that shops will no longer offer unsafe products for sale.

 

[mkbilbo]

View attachment 363863


Hey! stop picking on the egos! We ego guys out number forum managers!



( So, should we stop recommending them in the newcomers' forums?)

More like warn people to stay away from cheap junk and not assume everything is interchangeable.

There is a big time design flaw in the eGo world where you can screw on a 510 battery like a Blu onto an eGo charger. The photo of the fire incident, kinda looks like that may be what happened (but hard to tell from a news story photo). I've always thought that was asking for trouble.

Plus, "cig-a-like" manufactures don't even necessarily agree on polarity. I know Blu used to sell a kit that was 510 threaded but reverse polarity from most everybody else. Not good.

But first rule is "cheap" and "inexpensive" are not the same thing...

 

[Equilibrium]

Why would someone on oxygen even be Vaping?
Why would someone report e-cig at fault and Cause of Death unknown in the same story?

Heck, Could have passed on and the e-cig was left to fin for itself.

I'm sure the guy either had COPD or lung cancer and was trying to quit smoking. I used to work in the DME industry. We supplied oxygen concentrators, liquid o2 systems and bottled o2 to people in their homes. It would floor you if you knew how many people smoked while on o2.

 

[Squigly]

eGo fire photo:
London Fire Brigade - ‘Exploding’ e-cig leads to safety warning from Brigade

It looks as if the charger in this photo has failed as it's caused the eGo to catch fire. There are probably a chain of faults here, and the protection circuit in the eGo has clearly failed, but I can't see how a Li-ion charged at 4.2v max can catch fire. That leaves a charger fault. Given these chargers cost 75 cents ex-factory (or less, with a deal) then maybe that's to be expected. It maybe went to 5v DC or 2 amps or something. Would really like to have a failed example to test...

Or alternatively the charger puts out 5v at (?) amps and relies on the ecig to limit the charge voltage (or even the current). That is pure madness and explains why they catch fire. Jeez.

I think is the case, the protection is in the battery and NOT the charger where it SHOULD be..

 

[Squigly]

BECAUSE they're people. We've evolved to be exactly as stupid as we can get away with and still survive. Some don't make the cut.

Andria

Sadly I kind of agree... We have this overload of info on the internet, yet, humans are still making silly mistakes...